any PHEV pireps?

Pi1otguy

Pi1otguy

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I'm considering a PHEV as my next vehicle. Anyone have experience with them?
 
Advisory/rant on Volvo--

We purchased a 2022 XC-60 T8 for my wife. Electrically, it's been buggy as heck. Three times it went dead after sitting for a few days and had to be jump started due to a hidden power draw somewhere, even when plugged in. They claim to have fixed it, finally, but I haven't had a chance to test the last "fix". When cold, the brakes can be be really grabby the first couple stops. The user interface isn't that clean, it uses their own Chrome OS. Latest is the climate control doesn't automatically blow at high flow when it's hot when it should.

The auto-cruise works reasonably well, though I like the cruise more than the lane keeping. It feels like I have to fight the lane keeping too much to stay centered, so I turn that feature off sometimes. The proximity warnings also go off too easily from people next to you in stop and go traffic.

All that said, it is a Volvo, and it is built like a tank. It is about as safe as you can get, and the safety systems work, but they are very aggressive (i.e., auto-stop). It is fun to drive on wide open roads, as it is (very) fast (400 hp; 100 electric, 300 from a 2.4 turbo+supercharged 4 cyl) and handles very responsively. The interior is also super-nice, which is probably what (overly) sold us on it.

It does get very good mileage. 18 miles electric range is realistic, even with some AC; the 2023's have even more range. Our long term average over 17,000 miles so far is 53 mpg. Premium gas is required.

We got it during the height of COVID and vehicle shortages, but were able to get a really good deal through Costco's auto purchase program (I don't think the dealer was thrilled with having to honor that at the time, when everything was going for MSRP+).
 
Yeah I had a Chevy Volt (gen1). Loved that car. Had descent acceleration on all electric mode. Handled really nice. Not much room in the back. Little 84hp engine would rev quite high when you got on it. I think it was at 170 mpg when I traded it in on the Tesla. Usual maint items. From 52K to 108K I replaced pads, resurfaced rotors, replaced front bearings and usual oil changes.

I also had a Ford Cmax but not the plug in version. That was a decent car but it got no where near the original mpg claim that Ford put out. They send us (owners) all $500 checks because of that and reduced to their claim to like 45 mpg. Then that still was too high and they send us another $500 and reduced it to like 42 mpg. When I traded mine in it had an average of 41.5 mpg.
 
I've had a Ford Fusion PHEV for a little over 9 years and 113,000 miles. Here's what it's needed in that period of time.

Warranty repairs: There was a cracked light lens when I took delivery, replaced under warranty. Also, it needed the engine management software to be updated twice.
Recalls: 2, done during the oil changes
Out of warranty repairs: At 98,000 miles it needed a coil pack and spark plugs.

Service and maintenance items:
Five oil changes
One 12 volt battery
Three sets of wiper blades
10 tires, although a couple of them got replaced prematurely because of punctures.
Headlight bulbs
It's still on the original brakes and has a number of miles to go on them.

When I first got it, the battery range was about 21 miles, now it's down to 13. I used to charge it 100% twice a day when I had a commute, so the battery got a workout. On the highway, it gets about 36 mpg with the cruise set on 75, in town it's in the low 40s when in hybrid mode. EV miles are cheap.

This is easily the most trouble free and low maintenance car I've ever been involved with.
 
What do you want to know? We've been driving Chrysler Pacifica phev's since 2018.
 
Hi There,

Pi1otguy said:
I'm considering a PHEV as my next vehicle. Anyone have experience with them?
Click to expand...

I own a 2019 V60 T8 (since new). It's been flawless so far...

Battery still strong after 45000mls. Average Fuel Consumption for me is about 95MPG - but that highly depens on how long drives you take and if you can charge at the destination or not. If the battery is empty I still get 50-55MPG.

It's not a large car by any means - but it's big enough to haul the family around.

Only drawback might be: It's not a good towing vehicle by any means. If you need something to haul a trailer the volvo is probably not for you (I don't so it doesn't concern me)

Tobias
 
Jim K said:
What do you want to know? We've been driving Chrysler Pacifica phev's since 2018.
Click to expand...
I'm considering a Kia Niro.

Do you actually remember to charge it regularly? Is the acceleration acceptable? Hot climate issues?
 
Pi1otguy said:
I'm considering a Kia Niro.

Do you actually remember to charge it regularly? Is the acceleration acceptable? Hot climate issues?
Click to expand...
We have a level two charger in the garage, so it's simply a matter of habit to plug it in whenever we get home. The Pacifica charges in just a couple hours, so we actually charge ours twice a day, once dropping the kids off at school, once picking them up. I recently signed up for hourly power pricing, so I'll be using the car's built in scheduling to charge it at night when power is essentially free.

It's been awesome for us. I haven't done the math for a while, but at one point it saved us $400/ month in gas at the extra cost of $100 in electricity. I've been amazed how seamlessly it transitions between electric and gas. It actually accelerates (and drives in general) significantly better than the gas Pacifica, and certainly better than any minivan has a right to. We had to drive a gas Pacifica back from Florida when our plane quit, and we really found out how much our hybrid had spoiled us. We don't take many long trips by car any more, but when we do it's nice to not have to worry about finding charging stations or waiting.

Ours does better in the heat than the cold. Freezing weather probably cuts 15% off the range, but hot weather almost none. The electric air conditioning works awesome and doesn't cut out when the engine turns off at a light like the gas models. Another nice perk is that the car will pre- condition itself via a schedule, so it's warmed up or cooled off inside when you get in it. That helps with range as well.
 
FormerHangie said:
When I first got it, the battery range was about 21 miles, now it's down to 13. I used to charge it 100% twice a day when I had a commute, so the battery got a workout.
Click to expand...
Do you know what material the battery uses for the cathode? Most lithium-ion batteries degrade after ~1000 cycles, so if you were charging twice a day then I would expect the degradation to be noticeable after only a couple of years.
 
Not directly, justs a brainstorming thought for perspective.

I've been driving a BEV (Battery...or fully Electric Vehicle) for coming up on three years this summer.

When I first started considering it I was firmly in the camp of a PHEV making the most sense to me. The more I researched and thought about it though, it seems to me that a hybrid vehicle is NOT the best ICE (internal combustion engine) car that it could be....and it is also not the best electric car that it could be...... meanwhile, it has ALL of the disadvantages of an ICE...AND it has the disadvantages of a sub-optimal electric car.

After having driven my car for a while now, even on several road trips, I've been happy with my decision. I guess PHEV's probably do have some niches they fill well. One might be cross country travel in areas not covered well with high speed chargers yet.
 
Hi

asicer said:
Do you know what material the battery uses for the cathode? Most lithium-ion batteries degrade after ~1000 cycles, so if you were charging twice a day then I would expect the degradation to be noticeable after only a couple of years.
Click to expand...

Yes and no. The Batteries do degrade - but you're not getting 100% of the battery anyways... so in my case at least after way over 1000 cycles I don't notice any degradation.

Tobias
 
Hi,

Pi1otguy said:
I'm considering a Kia Niro.

Do you actually remember to charge it regularly? Is the acceleration acceptable? Hot climate issues?
Click to expand...

You won't forget it. Well... I did once I think. But it's a habit growing fast.

Tobias
 
Hi Brad,

Brad W said:
Not directly, justs a brainstorming thought for perspective.

I've been driving a BEV (Battery...or fully Electric Vehicle) for coming up on three years this summer.

When I first started considering it I was firmly in the camp of a PHEV making the most sense to me. The more I researched and thought about it though, it seems to me that a hybrid vehicle is NOT the best ICE (internal combustion engine) car that it could be....and it is also not the best electric car that it could be...... meanwhile, it has ALL of the disadvantages of an ICE...AND it has the disadvantages of a sub-optimal electric car.

After having driven my car for a while now, even on several road trips, I've been happy with my decision. I guess PHEV's probably do have some niches they fill well. One might be cross country travel in areas not covered well with high speed chargers yet.
Click to expand...

I have been considering a BEV myself. At the time of Order (Mid 2018) there were basically only Teslas Model S and some very weird cars around. The Model 3 was launched but not really available. Besides... the Model 3 doesn't have a big hatch - so out of the question anyways. Model S is too big.

I would love to get something like the Polestar 2 or C40 next time. As I don't drive that much it'll be another (I hope at least) four years until I will think about another car.

My Family & Airplane needs some money, too - don't want to overspend on a car right now :)

Tobias
 
I’d go with a Tesla, skip the engine. I rented a Model Y from Hertz in Florida for 5 weeks in February and it was awesome. My range anxiety quickly disappeared in a few days of driving. The car would easily handle the driving I do. I tried a supercharger once just to see what it was like, the car charged very quickly. The rest of the time I plugged the car into a 120 socket, that’s all I needed. When I buy one I’ll definitely put in a 240v charger as it will easily fully charge the car overnight whereas the 120 option won’t .
 
My neighbor. His EV burned to the ground in the driveway. In addition to the car, the garage was damaged to the point it has to be torn down and replaced. It burned a hole in his driveway, the top 40 feet needs to be dug up, under EPA supervision, and transported to a toxic waste site and then replaced. It also set fire to a 90 foot tall Ash tree which he will have to pay to have taken down. To date the bill is somewhere around $275,000.00 and counting. So far, the only people getting paid are the lawyers, as everyone denies responsibility.
When the ban on gas kicks in I'll build my own coal fired steam car.
 
Shepherd said:
My neighbor. His EV burned to the ground in the driveway. In addition to the car, the garage was damaged to the point it has to be torn down and replaced. It burned a hole in his driveway, the top 40 feet needs to be dug up, under EPA supervision, and transported to a toxic waste site and then replaced. It also set fire to a 90 foot tall Ash tree which he will have to pay to have taken down. To date the bill is somewhere around $275,000.00 and counting. So far, the only people getting paid are the lawyers, as everyone denies responsibility.
When the ban on gas kicks in I'll build my own coal fired steam car.
Click to expand...

Steam would be cool, but not nearly as convenient, and you better hope you don't have a catastrophic failure of the boiler. But I do like steam cars. It's pretty typical that when you concentrate massive amounts of potential energy in a small area, which is what is needed for transport, bad things can happen. Which EV did your neighbor have?
 
asicer said:
Do you know what material the battery uses for the cathode? Most lithium-ion batteries degrade after ~1000 cycles, so if you were charging twice a day then I would expect the degradation to be noticeable after only a couple of years.
Click to expand...


Let me ta
asicer said:
Do you know what material the battery uses for the cathode? Most lithium-ion batteries degrade after ~1000 cycles, so if you were charging twice a day then I would expect the degradation to be noticeable after only a couple of years.
Click to expand...

I don't. There was a slight degradation after four or five years, and it was fairly steady for the next five, but now it seems to have leveled out.
 
Brad W said:
Not directly, justs a brainstorming thought for perspective.

I've been driving a BEV (Battery...or fully Electric Vehicle) for coming up on three years this summer.

When I first started considering it I was firmly in the camp of a PHEV making the most sense to me. The more I researched and thought about it though, it seems to me that a hybrid vehicle is NOT the best ICE (internal combustion engine) car that it could be....and it is also not the best electric car that it could be...... meanwhile, it has ALL of the disadvantages of an ICE...AND it has the disadvantages of a sub-optimal electric car.

After having driven my car for a while now, even on several road trips, I've been happy with my decision. I guess PHEV's probably do have some niches they fill well. One might be cross country travel in areas not covered well with high speed chargers yet.
Click to expand...

A PHEV makes a lot of sense for someone who does a significant amount of long distance driving, or someone who does any highway driving and doesn't want a Tesla. The main disadvantage of "a sub optimal electric car" is range. A PHEV has no range issues. I can get in my car, drive five hours without refueling, stop for 10 minutes, and go another five hours. It's not something I've had to do very often, but I have had to do so. My daughter got stranded at school because her flight was canceled. I left my office at 3 on Friday afternoon, drove 600 miles, got a hotel room, got up at 6, drove 150 miles, picked her up, then drove 750 miles home, arriving at 10 PM. The disadvantage of a PHEV relative to a BEV is that it has an engine that has to be maintained. My experience , sample size of 1, is that a PHEV is more reliable and requires less maintenance and repairs than a conventional ICE powered car. It requires more maintenance than does a BEV and less than a non-hybrid ICE car.
 
We owned a Honda Clarity PHEV from 2018 to 2022, then passed it on to our kids and bought our 2022 Tesla Model 3. Here are the 2 at a soccer game yesterday.

52845076816_99e11c6eb6_z.jpg


PHEV's are great for what they do. Our Clarity got 35-52 miles of EV range, depending on driving habits, road conditions, load and temperature. Enough so that around town we rarely used any gas at all - maybe 5 or 6 gals every few weeks or even over a month or so. I'd want at least the Clarity's nominal 47 miles of range in a PHEV - some PHEV's have ranges in the 20's, and that hardly seems worth the hassle except in edge cases with regular short commutes.

On the one hand, PHEV's are the best of both worlds - an EV for local driving and a hybrid for the highway. Never need to "worry about" or plan charging for impromptu road trips. Our Clarity averaged 42 mpg on the highway in hybrid mode, quite good for a car that size. And we did LOTS of trips in it.

On the other hand, PHEV's are the worst of both worlds - carrying around the weight and complexity of an EV with the added complexity and weight of a gas motor to feed and maintain. Not a huge deal, but as PaulS said, maybe skipping the PHEV and going straight to an EV might be worth considering. With Tesla's Supercharger network and recent price reductions, and EV ranges approaching or surpassing 300 miles, definitely worth considering. On our many Tesla trips, we've never had to wait at a Supercharger nor been anywhere close to running out of battery. We don't mind charging for 20-30 minutes for every 3 or 4 hours of driving, but some might see that as a drawback.
 
Shepherd said:
My neighbor. His EV burned to the ground in the driveway.
Click to expand...
The rate of fires in EVs is significantly lower than for internal combustion cars. One analysis found a ratio of 11:1 in favor of EVs.

One potential issue is the charging installation. Don't use an inexpensive receptable for high-amperage charging. Spend $80, instead of $15, on a receptacle that will handle the high current (32A-48A) for several hours at a time without heating up. Also, insure the wires are properly seated and torqued to the receptacle's specs. A lot of DIYers skip these steps.

Almost 10 years ago, Tesla identified this problem when a customer, charging his Model S in his garage, had his wall outlet catch fire. In response, they upgraded their mobile connector to have temperature sensors in the plug to detect high temperatures in the outlet. They already had a temp sensor in the plug that connects to the car. When high temps are detected, the mobile connector reduces the charge current to prevent dangerously high temps. It also shows an error code to alert the owner to the problem.

I would think this is the same with PHEVs but I'm not familiar with the specifics of the charging equipment they use.
 
We test drove a Niro, and somehow it was the right time of day/year in Portland or something, as the chrome/metal strip in the dash interior always found a way to send sun into my eyes.

We liked it otherwise but no ownership experience to relate. :) The dealer couldn't understand why we didn't want to check out a Telluride, and had exactly zero wisdom to impart about the little Niro :D
 
Larry in TN said:
I would think this is the same with PHEVs but I'm not familiar with the specifics of the charging equipment they use.
Click to expand...

Had this happen at an RV receptacle at our GA house while charging our Clarity:

50432552582_3a715a517f.jpg


My bad - in an adapter cable I made, the screw connection was apparently loose enough that only a few strands were still connected to a prong. Larry is right that Tesla adapters can sense the heat generated by a poor connection at the receptacle to avoid this sort of thing.
 
FastEddieB said:
Had this happen at an RV receptacle at our GA house while charging our Clarity:
Click to expand...
Do you know the brand of that receptacle? I couldn't see it marked in the picture.

The home centers have consumer-grade receptacles that really aren't up to the demands of EV charging. Order a commercial-grade device, or spec one with your electrician. The extra $60-$80 you spend is cheap insurance. When buying EVSE (i.e. a "charger"), look for one that has temperature monitoring in the plug.
 
Tobias Göller said:
Hi,
You won't forget it. Well... I did once I think. But it's a habit growing fast.
Tobias
Click to expand...
Ha ha. yeah, once or twice myself. With my Audi E-Tron, if I charged to 100% could do my daily commute for a week, maybe. Not comfortably. 3-4 days easy. At first I was charging it overnight every 2nd or 3rd day. I did forget a time or two, and no problem except it did create a wee bit of stress
Later, I just got into the habit of plugging it in as soon as I get home daily...and have it set to charge up to 80%. I used to have it set on a timer to charge by the time I had to leave in the morning but I disabled hat too....thinking you never know when you might need to make an un-planned trip to the hospital all the way down town for a daughter's broken arm.... had more than enough range, but I like more reserve than taht.


FormerHangie said:
A PHEV makes a lot of sense for someone who does a significant amount of long distance driving, or someone who does any highway driving and doesn't want a Tesla. The main disadvantage of "a sub optimal electric car" is range. A PHEV has no range issues. I can get in my car, drive five hours without refueling, stop for 10 minutes, and go another five hours. It's not something I've had to do very often, but I have had to do so. My daughter got stranded at school because her flight was canceled. I left my office at 3 on Friday afternoon, drove 600 miles, got a hotel room, got up at 6, drove 150 miles, picked her up, then drove 750 miles home, arriving at 10 PM. The disadvantage of a PHEV relative to a BEV is that it has an engine that has to be maintained. My experience , sample size of 1, is that a PHEV is more reliable and requires less maintenance and repairs than a conventional ICE powered car. It requires more maintenance than does a BEV and less than a non-hybrid ICE car.
Click to expand...
Not so sure I agree with the highway driving but not Tesla part.... I like my Audi on road trips (& I chose my Audi over a Tesla Y, which I was considering)
But yeah, I can imagine someone say in sales that drives just a bit longer than the range of the car every day say in one metro area such as Atlanta for example, would have to do a little extra planning for charge stops that might be less than convenient...but I think in that case a PHEV makes even less sense... seems to me better to get a super high MPG gas car.
I think I mentioned before, seems to me that a PHEV makes sense maybe for folks that occasionally take road trips to areas where there are no high speed chargers
and I think I'll add to that, for people that can't charge at home...such as an apartment complex perhaps...
and I think ONLY for people who usually only drive very short distances within the battery range

FastEddieB said:
.....
On the other hand, PHEV's are the worst of both worlds - ......
Click to expand...
that was the conclusion I came to
 
PaulS said:
Steam would be cool, but not nearly as convenient, and you better hope you don't have a catastrophic failure of the boiler. But I do like steam cars. It's pretty typical that when you concentrate massive amounts of potential energy in a small area, which is what is needed for transport, bad things can happen. Which EV did your neighbor have?
Click to expand...

For decades, my grandfather raced a modified Stanley Steamer in a hill climb race in my home town. And won, every year until 1957.
As you would expect, the boiler let go, causing much excitement, but no injuries. Nana announced that was "IT", and the remains of the car languished in the coal bin until his death in 1973.
He did go out and buy a 1957 Hemi powered DeSoto, the first of many Hemis, which culminated in a 1966 Fury, Stage 3 426 hemi with a clutch flight transmission. Gramps loved him a Hemi.

I don't know what the neighbors EV was. I'll ask him when I see him.
 
Larry in TN said:
The rate of fires in EVs is significantly lower than for internal combustion cars. One analysis found a ratio of 11:1 in favor of EVs
Click to expand...
It's not that they catch fire, it's that it's harder to put out compared to gas.
 
Own a Tesla and a Rav4 Prime PHEV. The Rav4 is our long distance traveler. 30-50 miles pure electric, and then another 400+ miles range on the gas tank. So as a daily commuter we plug in the Rav4 every night, and then rarely fill the tank. And when we need to drive a long way with minimal stops, the Rav4 is our choice for those trips. The Tesla is a much more fun car to drive all around, up to a 3 hour radius. Waiting for the realistic 400 mile range Tesla/other EV, and then we will replace the Rav4.
 
Brad W said:
Ha ha. yeah, once or twice myself. With my Audi E-Tron, if I charged to 100% could do my daily commute for a week, maybe. Not comfortably. 3-4 days easy. At first I was charging it overnight every 2nd or 3rd day. I did forget a time or two, and no problem except it did create a wee bit of stress
Later, I just got into the habit of plugging it in as soon as I get home daily...and have it set to charge up to 80%. I used to have it set on a timer to charge by the time I had to leave in the morning but I disabled hat too....thinking you never know when you might need to make an un-planned trip to the hospital all the way down town for a daughter's broken arm.... had more than enough range, but I like more reserve than taht.



Not so sure I agree with the highway driving but not Tesla part.... I like my Audi on road trips (& I chose my Audi over a Tesla Y, which I was considering)
But yeah, I can imagine someone say in sales that drives just a bit longer than the range of the car every day say in one metro area such as Atlanta for example, would have to do a little extra planning for charge stops that might be less than convenient...but I think in that case a PHEV makes even less sense... seems to me better to get a super high MPG gas car.
I think I mentioned before, seems to me that a PHEV makes sense maybe for folks that occasionally take road trips to areas where there are no high speed chargers
and I think I'll add to that, for people that can't charge at home...such as an apartment complex perhaps...
and I think ONLY for people who usually only drive very short distances within the battery range

that was the conclusion I came to
Click to expand...

I recently took a trip to Sebring (Florida) to watch the car races. There's very little lodging in Sebring and nearby, so I stayed in Winter Haven. It's 482 miles from my house to Winter Haven. I left my house on Thursday at around 1:30 PM, and arrived a little after 10 PM. Friday, I wanted to be at the track no later than 10 AM, it's an hour and 15 minutes and 54 miles to the track. I left the track at 8 PM, returned the next morning at 7:30, and left for my hotel at 11:15 PM. Sunday I returned home, with a stop at Gainesville to have lunch with my sister.

I was trying to find a suitable non-Tesla EV for this trip. I set a price limit of $50,000, and came up the the Kia EV6, which, according to Inside EV's real world range test has a 245 mile range.
So, let's plan out my trip. For the first leg, there's a ChargePoint station at a La Quinta Inn in Tifton, GA, 205 miles from my house. Better hope it's working, because the next one is in Valdosta, which is 45 miles away and we can't reach that. Let's say I spend 25 minutes charging, then head on down the road with an 80 percent charge. Now my target distance is 160 miles, since we left Tifton with our 80% charge, and I'm going to leave a 40 mile buffer, just as I do when driving a gasoline powered car. I'd like to have dinner in Lake City, Florida. It's 106 miles from Tifton, so that works. It's at a Kia dealership,and there's only one plug, so that's iffy. There are four Level 3 chargers in a truck stop about 15 miles farther, so we'll be eating truck stop food for dinner. It's 160 miles from there to Winter Haven, we can make it to the hotel.

Now, I need to charge overnight, since it's past 11 PM because of the extra stops and length of those stops. There are two level two chargers about three miles from my hotel, so what do I do, Uber to and from? Sorry, this trip is not practicable in that EV.

Here's what I did in my PHEV: Left my home with a full tank of gasoline. Drove to Lane Farms in Fort Valley, GA to get some candy for my wife and daughters, which added 20 miles to the trip. Then I drove from Fort Valley to Lake City, FL, had dinner, spent five minutes buying gasoline, then drove to my hotel, arriving at 10 PM, and with enough fuel to make a round trip to the racetrack. A Tesla Model 3 long range combined with Tesla's charging infrastructure is a usable highway vehicle. A car with a 250 mile range and the non-Tesla charges is not.

Are you still sure that a PHEV is the worst of both worlds?
 
FormerHangie said:
Are you still sure that a PHEV is the worst of both worlds?
Click to expand...

Remember, I started out making the case that PHEV’s are the best of both worlds. Your use case with a non-Tesla exemplifies that and I agree a PHEV or hybrid is the rational choice for you right now for trips.

Not having to plan charging stops or worry about running out of juice pushed us towards our PHEV in 2018. And no regrets - great solution for that time. But in 2023 in a Tesla with 300+ miles of range plus the extensive and growing Supercharger network those concerns are simply a non-issue. For us. That said, unless and until Superchargers are universally available to non-Tesla’s, I would not consider any non-Tesla for cross country driving - too many reports of spotty availability and reliability of Chargepoint, Electrify America and various destination chargers. Hopefully that will improve over time.
 
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I think tesla should keep their chargers exclusively for teslas. The one super charger station I used, I had to wait about 15 minutes for charger to open up. That would be show stopper for me if it were universally the case, having to wait to plug in, especially on a trip.

I'm hoping one day in the future, probably after I'm gone, but I hope that you will be able to be a car pre-loaded with a 50k mile charge, or more and make fuel stops a thing of the past.
 
PaulS said:
The one super charger station I used, I had to wait about 15 minutes for charger to open up. That would be show stopper for me if it were universally the case, having to wait to plug in, especially on a trip.
Click to expand...

That would suck. Maybe we’re just lucky, or it’s the routes we’ve traveled, but we have yet to have to wait after many dozens of Supercharger visits. 3 times we’ve seen the “timer” icon enroute predicting a wait, but a stall has always been available by the time we got there. Once in Davie, FL, we saw a car waiting to charge while we were charging, and we left just a bit early out of courtesy. Again, Tesla is still rapidly building out their network and hopefully they can keep up with demand. In addition, their real time route planning has the ability to change your charge stops and charge times based on availability. A “Smart Network” as it were.
 
PaulS said:
I'm hoping one day in the future, probably after I'm gone, but I hope that you will be able to be a car pre-loaded with a 50k mile charge, or more and make fuel stops a thing of the past.
Click to expand...

So, Mr. Fusion?
 
Jeff Oslick said:
So, Mr. Fusion?
Click to expand...
I can see it now: a fusion powered vehicle catches fire in a driveway and a nuclear detonation takes out a whole neighborhood, not just a garage.
 
FastEddieB said:
unless and until Superchargers are universally available to non-Tesla’s, I would not consider any non-Tesla for cross country driving - too many reports of spotty availability and reliability of Chargepoint, Electrify America and various destination chargers. Hopefully that will improve over time.
Click to expand...
We recently drove a rental ICE Pacifica California to Missouri to help the nephew relocate.
At a number of gas, pee, or coffee stops, we were proximal to rechargers, and I’d stretch my legs and survey the customers. A couple non-Tesla folks, one Volvo, one Mustang, were very disappointed in charger performance. Volvo guy had to try six chargers to find one that worked, and then it wouldn’t shift to level 3. Mustang guy too said it was an “adventure” and was glad time wasn’t critical.

the Tesla folks at Tesla superchargers were happy campers. Saw one Tesla site with third-party charging support… don’t know how quickly that will roll out. Maybe I need to hack that system!

I’m now thinking PHEV for now… I could get home-airport-home all electric, except maybe for on-ramp acceleration.
 
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