Another want to buy my first airplane thread

Discussion in 'Flight Following' started by FLYIN' LION, Jun 10, 2020.

  1. FLYIN' LION

    FLYIN' LION Filing Flight Plan

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    It's been a long while since I've posted here. But, I have been seriously looking at my first airplane purchase lately. My idea is to purchase a C172 that I can provide instruction in that will pay for the costs of ownership. I have worked this out in excel and one - two students would pay for the plane and engine reserve, plus a few hours a month for personal use.

    I am a CFII with some experience in instruction 20 years ago. I've towed banners and flown jumpers (decades ago), but I would like to teach my daughter how to fly--she's 13 now. I feel like the 172 is a good compromise aircraft for these goals.

    I must admit that reading through some threads on this forum lately I am getting nervous about maintenance costs. If a plane has been appropriately maintained and annual-ed, why would costs be so high?
     
  2. Tom-D

    Tom-D Taxi to Parking PoA Supporter

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    Last edited: Jun 10, 2020
  3. steingar

    steingar Taxi to Parking

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    Might think about a Cherokee. Same mission, Cherokees are usually cheaper. Very simple airframe can keep maintenance costs down. There's one on this very site for sale for about $32K.
     
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  4. Juliet Hotel

    Juliet Hotel Pattern Altitude

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    Have you gotten insurance quotes for solo students in your plane?
     
  5. FLYIN' LION

    FLYIN' LION Filing Flight Plan

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    Currently looking at a 1967 172H with 1,000 hours on the engine and an IFR package for $37,000. I was looking in the $65K range, but would like to stay around 40K for now. I did my training at a 141 school in Warriors and Arrows, but we live in Virginia and I like the two doors and big windows on the 172. It gets hot here in Richmond during the summer.

    I have some rough quotes for insurance that are a year old. I am budgeting $4K for a year, but am looking into new quotes.
     
  6. Rcmutz

    Rcmutz Line Up and Wait

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    Hot and humid? You need a sliding canopy Grumman.
     
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  7. Sierra_Hotel

    Sierra_Hotel Pre-takeoff checklist

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    Pretty much the same situation I'm in. Would prefer a 172, but it's hard to not look at the Cherokee 180/Archers for cost. I'm going high and planning on $5k/yr for instruction insurance so that I'll hopefully be pleasantly surprised :lol: Received a quote for $3k a year when I was pricing out a $30k Warrior II.
     
  8. FLYIN' LION

    FLYIN' LION Filing Flight Plan

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    Now I'm wondering about the Beechcraft Sundowner 180. I see a good deal on one with an IFR panel and low time engine, but I hear they can be difficult to land? I don't foresee a problem with me, but wondering about using one as a training aircraft...
     
  9. Sierra_Hotel

    Sierra_Hotel Pre-takeoff checklist

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    Man if you were closer I'd suggest we just go halves :lol: I've looked at those as well. Slow, but hard to pass up the cabin size and two doors.
     
  10. Geosync

    Geosync Pre-takeoff checklist

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    pure training mission, Cessna 152 or 172. Other aircraft that are "steals" will hurt you in parts/maintenance. Everyone can work on a 152/172 and parts are available(relatively speaking).
     
  11. Tom-D

    Tom-D Taxi to Parking PoA Supporter

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    look for the best "M" model 172 that you can find.
     
  12. Tom-D

    Tom-D Taxi to Parking PoA Supporter

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    Have you ever priced the common parts for a Beechcraft ?
    The plastic part are bleached in the sun, and they are expensive.
     
  13. FLYIN' LION

    FLYIN' LION Filing Flight Plan

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    I flew the "H" model today that I mentioned above. Seems like it is well cared for considering its age. Don't know if an "M" model is in my price range.
     
  14. FLYIN' LION

    FLYIN' LION Filing Flight Plan

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    I'm too new to the game to have priced anything at this point.
     
  15. brien23

    brien23 Cleared for Takeoff

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    The price of a Cessna 172 "M" model or "N" is high right now, wait till October or November should shake out the flight schools on the edge. Might just be a bunch hit the market, and good price too. Just a note their is a lot of high time airframes, run out engines, old radio junk out their watch out what you get into.
     
    Last edited: Jun 25, 2020
  16. Tom-D

    Tom-D Taxi to Parking PoA Supporter

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    "N" is a 320-H2AD engine. costs are higher for parts, check what a cylinder cost compare to any other 320- cylinders.
     
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  17. Ravioli

    Ravioli Final Approach PoA Supporter

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    How much revenue will you generate training 13 year olds? And who pays that?

    [keys to the jokes: 13 year old persons can't solo AND your children aren't likely to pay much for your instruction, much like all the other sage advice you give them gratis]
     
  18. FLYIN' LION

    FLYIN' LION Filing Flight Plan

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    Out of curiosity, what makes the "M" model particularly appealing?
     
  19. Tom-D

    Tom-D Taxi to Parking PoA Supporter

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    It is the last year prior to the 0-300-D , and the 172-I (1968 first of the 0-320-E2D)

    1977- 1980 are the 0-320-H2AD. (Lycoming's bad dream engine)
     
  20. Sierra_Hotel

    Sierra_Hotel Pre-takeoff checklist

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    Think you have the timeline wrong.
     
  21. N1120A

    N1120A Pattern Altitude

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    I agree. Especially a 180/Archer. The plane is a great trainer and useful for XC.

    Get a window scoop (they work well). Or, as someone else said, get a Grumman.
     
  22. Skyrys62

    Skyrys62 En-Route

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    Meet the Fokkers
    What if they have had the upgrades / modifications needed to take care of their past design issues?
     
  23. Tom-D

    Tom-D Taxi to Parking PoA Supporter

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    Check the prices of a cylinder, H2AD vs, E2D.
    I doubt there is any unmodified H2AD that have not been modified to The "T" and the nozzles added.
     
  24. Tom-D

    Tom-D Taxi to Parking PoA Supporter

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    last 0-300-D = 1968
    0-230 H2AD = 1977 thru 1980
    IAW, Cessna Standard Catalog of Single Engine Aircraft.
     
  25. Skyrys62

    Skyrys62 En-Route

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    It's an actual question, not argumentative. There is a friend offering me a C172 at a good price, but it has the H2AD, with all mods so I want to know about them.

    Here are prices. Looks like cylinders are 300 or so more than the E2D model, but not all models are as cheap as the E2D either.
    http://www.airpowerinc.com/productcart/pc/cylinders.asp?catid=70&subcat=73&mfgid=TL

    With that said, do the Lycoming 320's eat cylinders that bad? I thought that was more of a Conti thing?
     
  26. Tom-D

    Tom-D Taxi to Parking PoA Supporter

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    READ !
    https://cessnaowner.org/h2ad-engine/
     
  27. Tom-D

    Tom-D Taxi to Parking PoA Supporter

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    I maintained 70611 for about 10 years, it had a new factory 0-320-H2AD in it when the owner bought it.
    in the 10 years I maintained it was trouble free, except for the cylinders that we de-leaded and a valve grinding, and 1 cylinder we replaced.
    the owner put about 2500 hours on during that time, after he sold it, the aircraft was converted to a 0-360-180.
     
  28. Skyrys62

    Skyrys62 En-Route

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    I've read that article before..and still don't see anything about it eating cylinders.

    From that story about 70611, it sounds like it eats less cylinders than Conti's.

    Maybe I'm missing something ? :dunno:
     
  29. Tom-D

    Tom-D Taxi to Parking PoA Supporter

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    I didn't think it eats cylinders any more than any other engine.

    With the 0-300- you will see cylinder work at 1000-1300 hours, just like any other engine.

    0-300 cylinders cost about $1000 (new)
     
  30. Tom-D

    Tom-D Taxi to Parking PoA Supporter

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  31. Tom-D

    Tom-D Taxi to Parking PoA Supporter

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  32. Skyrys62

    Skyrys62 En-Route

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    Definitely a project...
     
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  33. Tom-D

    Tom-D Taxi to Parking PoA Supporter

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    The best aircraft found, were some ones project.
     
  34. Sierra_Hotel

    Sierra_Hotel Pre-takeoff checklist

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    Right, the M was 73-76, well after the O-300, not prior to, which was my point.
     
  35. Tom-D

    Tom-D Taxi to Parking PoA Supporter

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  36. Juliet Hotel

    Juliet Hotel Pattern Altitude

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    Those seats don't look like they've got 10k hours on them.
     
  37. weilke

    weilke Touchdown! Greaser!

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    - Do you have an airport in mind that allows you to run a flight school without major buerocratic complications ?
    - Does your spreadsheet account for a commercial insurance policy that allows for primary students ?
     
  38. Tom-D

    Tom-D Taxi to Parking PoA Supporter

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    What business does an airport have in how the aircraft is used.
     
  39. weilke

    weilke Touchdown! Greaser!

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    Once he provides instruction for hire he is no longer a 'individual user' of the airport but a 'aeronautical service provider'. Many public airports in Virginia have 'uniform commercial requirements' that levy gross receipts taxes, set minimum facility requirements and insurance levels.


    But you knew that.
     
    Last edited: Jun 28, 2020 at 1:37 PM
  40. Tom-D

    Tom-D Taxi to Parking PoA Supporter

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    Now that is just stupid, you can't use your own aircraft for any thing you want.(legally)
    Now I really think we do need a civil war.
    or move to a state where we can operated without the nazis.