Another question about departing VFR with IFR clerance

[BigBadLou]

Hi guys, instrument student here.
Got a question about departing a non-towered airport VMC but on IFR clearance and have not actually seen a thread on this one (or haven't dug deep enough).

I've read the numerous threads about taking off VFR (in VMC) and getting clearance once airborne. I also read many threads about getting clearance on the ground, ATC closing the airport airspace (for IFR traffic) for a time window to depart.

But is there a way to get the whole clearance on the ground first (via telephone or RO), set the squawk, depart VMC, call departure frequency once airborne and practically just "check in"? (no, I do not mean say "checking in" literally )

To rephrase my question, is there a way to get IFR clearance on the ground to avoid writing a long clearance in the air but still depart VMC? (IOW without ATC closing down the airspace during a time window)

If the question has been asked and answered before, my apologies and please point me to the thread.

Thanks in advance.
Lou

 

[Sac Arrow]

Call FSS (same people you call for a weather briefing) and file IFR with the airport as a starting point, and an initial fix (probably called out in the departure procedure.) They will give you a number to call to receive your clearance, and give you a void-time by which you must depart for the clearance to remain valid.

Personally, if I only needed an IFR clearance at the end for an approach, I'd go VFR and get a pop up as I got near.

 

[Hank S]

I have always been based at a non towered field. In VMC conditions, I file IFR from the field to my destination, take off squawking 1200 and talking on CTAF. Once clear, I call Departure / Center in the climb, "Mooney 4DJ off of Lawrence County, I'd like to open my flight plan please."

It's really that simple. They come back with a squawk, and sometimes but not often (one of the joys of living in the boonies) ask me to copy. Now that I've moved and learned the routes around ATL, I'm back to rarely copying again.

In IMC conditions, there are two options: 1) call on the radio and ask for Clearance from the Hold Short line; 2) call the national number on your cell phone from the ramp. Both have the same result--the field will be closed for Instrument operations from whenever they tell you your clearance window begins until either it expires or you check in in the air. Weather conditions don't matter, only the one-at-a-time Instrument clearance matters. You may need to wait while another plane is inbound / outbound from your field or another nearby one: I've been advised that I'd have to wait ten minutes, "or do you want to check in in the air?" The ceiling was low enough that I waited that day.

There is no way (that I know of) to get an Instrument departure clearance at a non-towered field without closing the airspace to other planes on IFR flight plans. Same for Instrument approach clearances, except when done as advisory in good weather with a safety pilot. Then ATC will tell you "maintain VFR, no separation services will be provided."

 

[Brad Z]

Hi guys, instrument student here.
Got a question about departing a non-towered airport VMC but on IFR clearance and have not actually seen a thread on this one (or haven't dug deep enough).

I've read the numerous threads about taking off VFR (in VMC) and getting clearance once airborne. I also read many threads about getting clearance on the ground, ATC closing the airport airspace (for IFR traffic) for a time window to depart.

But is there a way to get the whole clearance on the ground first (via telephone or RO), set the squawk, depart VMC, call departure frequency once airborne and practically just "check in"? (no, I do not mean say "checking in" literally )

To rephrase my question, is there a way to get IFR clearance on the ground to avoid writing a long clearance in the air but still depart VMC? (IOW without ATC closing down the airspace during a time window)

If the question has been asked and answered before, my apologies and please point me to the thread.

Thanks in advance.
Lou

What you describe is generally how I get my IFR from Potomac Airfield outside of DC (VKX). We have to be on a flight plan with a squawk, so we always have to call regardless of VFR or IFR. We call the Tracon and get our clearance and advise them we will depart VFR. They give is the normal CRAFT, with a "depart VFR" rather than a "hold for release".

This method will have a varying degree of success depending on where you are. It's best to contact the facility directly rather than going through FSS. You can use FSS to get the phone number though, if you don't have it.

Remember, if it's truly VFR, you're probably not holding folks up, unless you're in a situation like mine where a busy class B airport approach is overhead and they have to find a gap to launch you. Most folks who are IFR into a non towered field will cancel if it's VFR and they anticipate any sort of delay on arrival.

 

[bkspero]

To rephrase my question, is there a way to get IFR clearance on the ground to avoid writing a long clearance in the air but still depart VMC? (IOW without ATC closing down the airspace during a time window)

You can do exactly what you describe. Call the controlling agency on the phone or radio (if there is remote on the field) and get your clearance, routing, altitude instructions, frequency, and squawk code. When they tell you to hold for release, ask them if you can depart VFR and activate your clearance in the air. I confirm with them that they want me to set the IFR transponder code upon departure, and so far they always have said yes, squawk the IFR code even when departing VFR.

I've never tried doing that through the FSS clearance delivery number, so no help there.

 

[EdFred]

Here in the Midwest I have yet to get one that hasn't been "As filed." So, I pretty much always know what I'm getting.

 

[Theboys]

I fly out of a untowered airport under the Tampa class b veil. I call the rco or gco and get my clearance on the ground. They give me a void time which is usually about 5 minutes. Then they tell me to go to advisory frequency ( local ctaf) and to check back in at not over 2000 ft. Then even though they have given me an initial waypoint usually baypo, they start giving me radar vectors. In about 50 miles and 12000 ft or so they give me direct to destination which is actually only until they vector me again later.

 

[midlifeflyer]

Don't CFIIs who teach out of towered airports take their students to at least one airport where they have to get a void time clearance?

Lou, what you describe is done all the time. There's even a special national Clearance Delivery number especially for the purpose (888-766-8267), although, depending on the airport, there may be alternatives such as dedicated phone numbers or frequencies and the ability to communicate with TRACON or Center on the regular frequency from the ground.

Don't apologize for asking an important question, but this is one of the repeat questions that always surprises me.

 

[midlifeflyer]

Here's a YouTube video getting a clearance on the ground using the 888 number. Pretty good - it even has a delay which can be common when busy.

 

[Palmpilot]

Don't CFIIs who teach out of towered airports take their students to at least one airport where they have to get a void time clearance?

Mine didn't, but that was over twenty years ago.

 

[ahkahn]

I often call Chicago Tracon directly for a clearance on the ground while I sit at the hold short ready to go. Bluetooth headsets/intercoms are great for this purpose. They encourage the use of this. You'll get a squawk code, departure instructions, routing, etc. just like a normal clearance.

If you look in the A/FD (I believe in the front) it has controlling agencies phone numbers for clearance pickups on the ground via phone.

Chicago Tracon's number is: (847) 289-0926

 

[EppyGA]

Did this in 2012 flying out of West Bend, WI. From the ground I was able to pick up my clearance via radio at MKE with the instruction to contact approach on xxx.xx before entering controlled airspace.

 

[chemgeek]

In the boonies like where I'm at, you need to call clearance delivery for a void time before launching if conditions do not allow safe VFR to communication altitude, which is around 3000 msl for me. If it's locally good VFR, but IFR down the line, I file and then call in to open on my way to the first fix (which is the one that departure prefers). Once you know the local practices, everyone is on the same page when you do it either way.

The trap to avoid is trying to pick up your clearance in the air when you can't maintain VFR at an altitude sufficient for communication. Minimum Legal VFR may not be good enough to talk to ATC. If in doubt, get a void time.

 

[Cruiser]

Did this twice out of KSMQ with Washington Approach.
Call the local number on the ground and get the clearance. Instead of a void time, tell them you want to depart VFR and call the departure frequency in the air.

 

[Kritchlow]

Yup. Get the clearance and tell them you're departing VFR and will call them for an airborn release. I've done it numerous times. I suspect some areas of the country may frown on this practice though.
The key is tell keep ATC informed of what you are trying to do. Don't unexpectedly pop up VFR with your IFR code. That would not be good.

 

[Gucci Pilot]

I have never heard of that but apparently Kritchlow and Cruiser have done it. Just curious why you don't want to get the void time and IFR release? If you are worried about preventing another IFR airplane from landing during that 5-minute window(odds of that happening is rather low at a non-towered airport) that airplane can just cancel IFR(since you said it was VMC conditions) and come in VFR.

 

[Brad Z]

I have never heard of that but apparently Kritchlow and Cruiser have done it. Just curious why you don't want to get the void time and IFR release? If you are worried about preventing another IFR airplane from landing during that 5-minute window(odds of that happening is rather low at a non-towered airport) that airplane can just cancel IFR(since you said it was VMC conditions) and come in VFR.

For us at Potomac Airfield (VKX), underneath the approach path to DCA, we can wait a half hour before ATC can build a gap large enough to get us a four minute window. Departing VFR on a squawk code and a routing in hand is standard practice.

 

[BigBadLou]

You can do exactly what you describe. Call the controlling agency on the phone or radio (if there is remote on the field) and get your clearance, routing, altitude instructions, frequency, and squawk code. When they tell you to hold for release, ask them if you can depart VFR and activate your clearance in the air. I confirm with them that they want me to set the IFR transponder code upon departure, and so far they always have said yes, squawk the IFR code even when departing VFR.

So the key word is to "activate" my clearance in the air instead of getting a release on the ground, gotcha, that's what I didn't know and what I was after.

Don't CFIIs who teach out of towered airports take their students to at least one airport where they have to get a void time clearance?

I am not that far into training and although I have gotten mock clearances in the past, none of them was for this style. Hopefully the instructor will go through it with me in the future, now I know what to ask for.

Lou, what you describe is done all the time.

Sure, I just didn't know how it is done or what it is called.

Don't apologize for asking an important question, but this is one of the repeat questions that always surprises me.

I don't mind asking and I don't mind searching but I could not find the answer since I did not know what exactly I was asking for (correct terminology helps and I didn't have it).

Just curious why you don't want to get the void time and IFR release? If you are worried about preventing another IFR airplane from landing during that 5-minute window(odds of that happening is rather low at a non-towered airport) that airplane can just cancel IFR(since you said it was VMC conditions) and come in VFR.

Correct, I don't want to hold up other inbound IFR traffic but also, I don't want to be sitting at the hold-short line with a time release window ticking away while 6 airplanes keep the traffic pattern so busy that I cannot depart.


Thank you, everybody, for the great answers, they do not go unappreciated.