Another Commercial Rating Question

BrianNC

BrianNC

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First of all here is a quote from another thread I started on the commercial to let you know where I am in this process:

I have all requirements except for the long x-country and the 5 hours night flying with TO's and landings at an airport with a control tower, and the maneuvers training (I'm just starting back the training after a few years of non-flying).
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So, I can join a flying club with a nicely equipped 172 (Garmin 430; Lynx NGT-9000 Transponder/ADS-B in/out; S-Tec 30 Autopilot with Alt hold; $400 fee, $70 a month, $75 an hour wet, $35 an hour instructor rate) and was thinking I could do that to practice all the maneuvers, and then do what I need to do in a retrac. Of course I still need "10 hours of training in an airplane that has a retractable landing gear, flaps, and a controllable pitch propeller" although I do have more than 10 hours in a complex from previous flying experience before I quit flying the past 11 years, so I assume that would count. I think I have almost 15 hours in a complex between a 182RG and an Arrow.

Obviously the goal is trying to do it in a way that cost the least money. Would you just go ahead and bite the bullet and just go with a retrac from the get-go (two choices, a 182RG at $200 an hour with a $60 an hour instructor rate; or an Arrow at $165 an hour with a $55 instructor rate), or try and do it between a single and a retrac?

Another thing to take into consideration is that I need the long XC and night flight, and that is solo flight. So how many hours are they going to require for me to be checked out if I do that in a retrac? It seems it's normally 10 hours isn't it? Although I do have the previous retrac time.

Also with just the long XC and night flight needed, that should take about 10 hours total or so, how long do you think it would take to practice up for the maneuvers and get proficient with them and be ready for a check ride? An additional 10 hours? 20 hours?

I know I'm probably overthinking all this because I'm trying to go the route that costs the least money, but thanks for the help.
 
How much of your 15 hours of complex time was with an instructor and you receiving instruction? You need 10 hours of training somewhere prior to the commercial checkride. If you have that much time of dual received then that box is checked.

The other solo stuff you're missing can be done in a fixed gear single. No need to rent a complex to meet those requirements unless you want to.

My suggestion, once you've got all the other requirements met, is to sit down with an instructor and have them teach you the commercial maneuvers in the complex airplane that you're going to take the checkride in. Most times that can be done in less than 10 hours. As for which plane to do it in, I'd do it in whichever one is going to be the cheapest. It doesn't matter much what the plane is, as long as it is complex. Which is cheapest is a toss up, there isn't much difference in price but there may be a difference in instructor quality and efficiency.
 
mondtster said:
How much of your 15 hours of complex time was with an instructor and you receiving instruction? You need 10 hours of training somewhere prior to the commercial checkride. If you have that much time of dual received then that box is checked.
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Actually all of it was with an instructor. I have no solo complex time.
 
I'm echoing much of @mondtster's post.

There are a number of ways to approach this. But first, be aware that, even for the checkride, a retract is only required for the takeoff and landing tasks. People have taken two-airplane checkride. But if you are like most and don't want to switch around, I think the best thing to do is learn and practice the required maneuvers in the complex. There will be enough procedural differences that I don't think there is much to be gained by learning in a simple and then relearning in a complex.

Unless you are also going to practice the maneuvers or need the instruction or time, don't bother with a complex for the cross country flights. The two 2-hour ones don't need to be complex and the long cross country with an instructor on board doesn't count as dual.
 
I have 5 hours complex and need 5 more, plan do learn the maneuvers in the cherokee and then use those 5 hours (hopefully not much more) getting comfortable with the maneuvers in the complex. Not saying that is the correct way to do it, but that's my plan!
 
TRocket said:
I have 5 hours complex and need 5 more, plan do learn the maneuvers in the cherokee and then use those 5 hours (hopefully not much more) getting comfortable with the maneuvers in the complex. Not saying that is the correct way to do it, but that's my plan!
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That's what I did. I first learned the maneuvers in a Warrior then transitioned to the Arrow. It saved a little money.
 
midlifeflyer said:
I'm echoing much of @mondtster's post.

There are a number of ways to approach this. But first, be aware that, even for the checkride, a retract is only required for the takeoff and landing tasks. People have taken two-airplane checkride. But if you are like most and don't want to switch around, I think the best thing to do is learn and practice the required maneuvers in the complex. There will be enough procedural differences that I don't think there is much to be gained by learning in a simple and then relearning in a complex.

Unless you are also going to practice the maneuvers or need the instruction or time, don't bother with a complex for the cross country flights. The two 2-hour ones don't need to be complex and the long cross country with an instructor on board doesn't count as dual.
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Yeah, the instructor said that just for sake of continuity that it was probably best to do all the training in the complex. I already have my 2 hour flights, just need the long XC and 5 hours of night flight.

He also mentioned that if I was thinking about getting the CFI also (which I was), that I could basically train for that at the same time and fly from the right seat during my commercial training, which would cut down on total time taken for both ratings. Any thoughts on that?
 
BrianNC said:
Yeah, the instructor said that just for sake of continuity that it was probably best to do all the training in the complex. I already have my 2 hour flights, just need the long XC and 5 hours of night flight.

He also mentioned that if I was thinking about getting the CFI also (which I was), that I could basically train for that at the same time and fly from the right seat during my commercial training, which would cut down on total time taken for both ratings. Any thoughts on that?
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Flying the right seat prepping for the CFI checkride during your commercial is a good idea so long as it's OK with your CFI. Looking up the posts, the idea of using two aircraft can be a little logistical challenge, unless the DPE is doing an exam at the FBO where both airplanes are ready to go and doesn't mind spending the time doing the oral, going up in one plane for some tasks, then landing and going up again for the remainder of the tasks. I'm assuming that you already have an instrument rating as well.
 
The need for right seat training is totally overexaggerated. Do it if your insurance is cool with it, but if not, don't worry about it. It takes all of one or two flights to get comfortable with it, especially when you're fresh out of the commercial certification.

I chose to do my time building for the commercial in a C150 and a C172. I then switched and went full-time into a C172RG and didn't stop flying it until I had a commercial and CFI ticket in hand. By the time that happened I had 33 hours in that plane and felt very comfortable going into both checkrides. That's ultimately what should guide your decision. You want to be as comfortable as possible in the airplane you take into the checkride. If you can do that in 5 hours, great. If you feel a need to take more time, then do that.

One word of advice to an up and coming CFI: Go get your commercial multi add-on training and your MEI as soon as you have your single-engine CFI ticket in hand. The market is booming for MEIs right now, at least in the south. There is also huge need for multi-engine rated commercial pilots, and you never know when the right opportunity is going to come around. I'm just getting around to add-on training now, but I really should have done it a while back.
 
SbestCFII said:
Flying the right seat prepping for the CFI checkride during your commercial is a good idea so long as it's OK with your CFI. Looking up the posts, the idea of using two aircraft can be a little logistical challenge, unless the DPE is doing an exam at the FBO where both airplanes are ready to go and doesn't mind spending the time doing the oral, going up in one plane for some tasks, then landing and going up again for the remainder of the tasks. I'm assuming that you already have an instrument rating as well.
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I do have the instrument rating. What kind of proficiency do you have to show on instruments for the commercial? I assume at least one approach, a hold and...?
 
jordane93 said:
Basic attitude instrument flying. Couple of turns and unusual attitudes.
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There is no hoodwork required in the Commercial PTS for Single-engine.

@BrianNC - keep in mind you can get a Commercial certificate without even having an instrument rating. It's very much a VFR checkride.
 
RussR said:
There is no hoodwork required in the Commercial PTS for Single-engine.

@BrianNC - keep in mind you can get a Commercial certificate without even having an instrument rating. It's very much a VFR checkride.
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Yep my mistake. I was confusing it with the instrument time requirement.
 
BrianNC said:
I do have the instrument rating. What kind of proficiency do you have to show on instruments for the commercial? I assume at least one approach, a hold and...?
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Commercial is straight up VFR. Since you already have an instrument rating, you should be good-to-go without any instrument tasks.
 
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