And another crash at Danburt, CT

Shepherd

Shepherd

Final Approach
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Shepherd
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http://wtnh.com/2017/07/30/danbury-police-investigate-plane-crash-at-danbury-airport/
Injuries: Critical, serious, minor.

I've flown that aircraft. G1000 Cessna 172. Not a blazing performer.
I'm told (but have no verification, yet)
Very hot, humid day.
Three big guys.
Slight tail wind.
Taking off into rising ground.
Mushed it off, stalled. End of flight.

If it's true, the links in this chain were dayglo red from the get-go.
 
Shepherd said:
http://wtnh.com/2017/07/30/danbury-police-investigate-plane-crash-at-danbury-airport/
Injuries: Critical, serious, minor.

I've flown that aircraft. G1000 Cessna 172. Not a blazing performer.
I'm told (but have no verification, yet)
Very hot, humid day.
Three big guys.
Slight tail wind.
Taking off into rising ground.
Mushed it off, stalled. End of flight.

If it's true, the links in this chain were dayglo red from the get-go.
Click to expand...
I fly that kind of aircraft regularly. With full fuel and three guys they would almost certainly be overweight. With fuel at tabs and three big guys they would probably be overweight too.
 
But it was a G1000 model. Those are fool-proof, W&B and high DA do not apply to those cuz they have the miraculous/magic magenta line. Doesn't the G1000 along with fuel injection solve all your other problems you might be introducing by poor ADM??? *shrug* What kind of airplanes are they selling us these days?? Boo, Cessna, booooo!
 
I've said it here before (even started a thread about it).
Danbury is a nasty freekin airport. The crash may not be directly related to the airport, but the airport is intimidating and I believe plays a role.
 
Kritchlow said:
I've said it here before (even started a thread about it).
Danbury is a nasty freekin airport. The crash may not be directly related to the airport, but the airport is intimidating and I believe plays a role.
Click to expand...

The report made it sound like they were taking off into the notch. Makes sense for today's winds...


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I guess once someone gets their certificate the things they learned while training somehow don't apply anymore. It's as if the laws of physics get suspended.
 
gsengle said:
The report made it sound like they were taking off into the notch. Makes sense for today's winds...


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Click to expand...

They were on RW 26, taking off towards the lowest hill around the airport.
Danbury is a difficult airport, even on a good day.
One of the flight schools has a series of emergency checklists they give their students. For "Engine Failure During Take-off" it says, and I quote, "Kiss your Axx goodbye".
There is absolutely no where to go if the prop stops turning after the wheels leave the ground.
 
Shepherd said:
They were on RW 26, taking off towards the lowest hill around the airport.
Danbury is a difficult airport, even on a good day.
One of the flight schools has a series of emergency checklists they give their students. For "Engine Failure During Take-off" it says, and I quote, "Kiss your Axx goodbye".
There is absolutely no where to go if the prop stops turning after the wheels leave the ground.
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I've been in there both fixed wing and helicopter. Even the roads near by are so heavily trafficked and full of curves (rt84) that it would be tough to put it down.


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Wow was an instructor on board too...


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Full fuel, 3 adult males on board, yeah likely to be overweight.
 
gsengle said:
Wow was an instructor on board too...


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Click to expand...

Did you mean WAS an instructor? Hopefully something else happened (mechanically etc) but appears over weight.
 
I lived in Danbury back in the early 90s. I recall going to the airport twice looking for an FBO to rent from. Between the somewhat hairy looking location and the unfriendly FBO, I stuck to flying gliders off the grass at Candelight Farms. Never flown in or out of Danbury.


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It also said "the fuel tank was full." Any comments on the accuracy of the report?
 
Ravioli said:
It also said "the fuel tank was full." Any comments on the accuracy of the report?
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I think that claim was made by the police. My guess is they saw that lots of fuel spilled out and to them that meant the fuel tanks were "full" as in not anywhere close to empty. They probably weren't thinking about full fuel vs fuel at tabs and how it all effects W&B.
 
From the article above:


Stephen Williams, the deputy fire chief of the Danbury Fire Department, told The Danbury News Times that the fuel tank was full when the four-passenger plane went down.
 
mscard88 said:
From the article above:


Stephen Williams, the deputy fire chief of the Danbury Fire Department, told The Danbury News Times that the fuel tank was full when the four-passenger plane went down.
Click to expand...
Police or fire department, I think they were just emphasizing that there was lots of fuel on board and they didn't run out of fuel. Regardless, 3 big guys and fuel even at tabs would have probably put them overweight.
 
And I think I was pointing out that the accuracy of the report is questionable, at best, because they don't even know how many tanks there are on a 172, let alone the fuel level in each.

Further... we don't know the weight of the "3 guys." Sure they could be a bunch of Jumbos. But did they have baggage or just a couple of headsets and iPads?

The DA and wind direction is good information and the rest is just speculation on a bad situation, fed by equally bad 'data'.
 
This reminds me of when I brought a friend along to join on a lesson in a C172SP early in my training. We're both big guys and so was the CFI. My CFI said to go check how much fuel was in the plane, and it was full. Then he said to do the W&B and we were about 100 lbs overweight. Fortunately there was another plane available with a lot less fuel, but enough for the flight, and it put us right at max gross.
 
In a lot of places the rental outfits require topping off the tanks when you bring the plane back. Special arrangements needed if you require less than full fuel.
 
wsuffa said:
In a lot of places the rental outfits require topping off the tanks when you bring the plane back. Special arrangements needed if you require less than full fuel.
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Yep. Fill up the tanks after returning policies have the potential to put the next pilot in a bind.
 
wsuffa said:
In a lot of places the rental outfits require topping off the tanks when you bring the plane back. Special arrangements needed if you require less than full fuel.
Click to expand...

Always seemed dumb to me.


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gsengle said:
SkyDog58 said:
Yep. Fill up the tanks after returning policies have the potential to put the next pilot in a bind.
Click to expand...
Always seemed dumb to me.
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Not only is it absolutely discourteous to the next renter, it is also one of the stupidest things to do to students. That way, they will never learn proper fuel management.
Some CFIs/schools need to be smacked upside the head to straighten up and teach useful flying. *rolleyes*
 
wsuffa said:
In a lot of places the rental outfits require topping off the tanks when you bring the plane back. Special arrangements needed if you require less than full fuel.
Click to expand...
The club I rent from fills the planes to tabs in the summer and full the rest of the year. I would prefer it if they just left it after the flight and have the renter get fuel if they need it. All you have to do is call for the fuel truck and they can fill it up while you're preflighting.
 
SkyDog58 said:
Probably more like semi automatically as you do have to enter all of your weights.
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Better said by you. None of that weightxarm=moment stuff. Learned math in GA and all...typing in fuel and people makes it pretty close to automatic. :)
 
Radar Contact said:
Better said by you. None of that weightxarm=moment stuff. Learned math in GA and all...typing in fuel and people makes it pretty close to automatic. :)
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Does FF make the PIC decision that you're overweight? I mean for the proposed flight? :cool:
 
paflyer said:
Does FF make the PIC decision that you're overweight? I mean for the proposed flight? :cool:
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What does that mean? Either you're overweight or you're not. I'm guessing it doesn't lock the throttle if you're out of W&B, but it will tell you if you're good or not.
 
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