AME screwed up; can I go basic med

Discussion in 'Medical Topics' started by Health Nut, Apr 1, 2019.

  1. Health Nut

    Health Nut Guest

    I have held a valid 3rd class medical for ~10 years. Today I received a certified letter from the FAA telling me that discrepancies have been found with my AME and I have been ordered to apply for a new medical with a different doctor within 60 days at my own expense.

    Can I go with basic med, or does the fact that my current medical is under question disqualify me?
     
  2. Wheels

    Wheels Pre-takeoff checklist PoA Supporter

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    How is the letter worded? Does it say that your medical is being suspended or revoked? If so then you are not eligible for BasicMed.
     
  3. JOhnH

    JOhnH Touchdown! Greaser! PoA Supporter

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    Well, the title got my attention (AME screwed up), but in this case, it looks like it may be true.
     
  4. Health Nut

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    It doesn't say anything about being suspended or revoked.

    It says:
    "In order to determine whether you meet the medical standards, you must submit a new application for a medical certificate and undergo your physical examination within 60 days of the date of this correspondence."

    It goes on to say I need t submit a new application (medexpress.faa.gov), which I have already done.
     
  5. FlySince9

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    So how recent was your last physical? were you issued a certificate and now the FAA says they want you to re-do it because your AME is being investigated (for not just your physical, alone)? If that's the case and if you meet Basic Med requirements (you've held a 3rd class for the last ten years, right?), I don't see why not...
     
  6. Health Nut

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    My last medical was Nov 2017 so I am due later this year. It wasn't just me. All airmen examined by this AME are affected.
     
  7. FlySince9

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    Since you've already applied thru medexpress I don't know if you can switch. But otherwise I don't see how it would be different than if you had applied for Basic Med before you were due for a renewal of your 3rd class... But somebody smarter than me will surely respond to this thread with useful info... GOOD LUCK...hope this doesn't cause you too much trouble...
     
  8. DaleB

    DaleB En-Route

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    I would be afraid that failing to obtain a new medical will result in your old one being revoked. This language makes me think that may be the case: "you must submit a new application for a medical certificate". If your existing one gets revoked, things get even more festive.
     
  9. Clip4

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    Call the local FSDO and voluntarily surrender your medical certificate.
     
  10. EdFred

    EdFred Touchdown! Greaser! PoA Supporter

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    Hmmm. Posted on April 1.....
     
  11. FORANE

    FORANE Pattern Altitude

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    Nope, it's not a joke. I have seen a copy of the letter posted on another forum by another poor schlep.
     
  12. geneseib

    geneseib Line Up and Wait

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    Have you had a 3rd class in the last 10 years from a doctor other than the one being investigated?
     
  13. Wheels

    Wheels Pre-takeoff checklist PoA Supporter

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    Unfortunately it appears that everyone who has a medical issued by Dr. Robert Kurrle at Spruce Creek is getting the letter and he has very suddenly retired.
     
  14. DaleB

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    Won't matter, if his current one gets revoked.
     
  15. rk911

    rk911 Line Up and Wait PoA Supporter

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    wouldn't that be a question for the FSDO?
     
  16. bflynn

    bflynn Final Approach

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    If you fail to get a new medical, it sounds like your old one will be revoked. You cannot surrender it because that also counts as revoked. Either way, basicmed does you no good here.

    Your AME messed up and now you have to prove that you are actually qualified. Welcome to the dysfunctional side of the medical system. You are now one of us.
     
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  17. TCABM

    TCABM Cleared for Takeoff

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  18. Health Nut

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  19. Health Nut

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    Are you convinced now? There was nothing humorous about this.

    Apology accepted in advance.
     
  20. Anymouse

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    Assuming you don't really have any medical issues, it looks like it would be easier to just cough up the money and time to get a new Class III.

    I am curious to find out what Dr Kurrle did to invoke the ire of the FAA. Was a crash involved???
     
  21. JOhnH

    JOhnH Touchdown! Greaser! PoA Supporter

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    That's a good question. Kr. Kurrle worked out of Spruce Creek and they did have quite a few incidents in the past few years. Some of them I believe involved medical events. My wife has used him for years. I expect she will get the letter soon.
     
  22. Stan Cooper

    Stan Cooper Cleared for Takeoff

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    Apparently, Mark D. Sherman, M.D., has taken over Dr. Kurrle's practice.

    https://www.flightdoc.us/

    If I were the OP, I'd contact Dr. Sherman about getting a third class physical. Dr. Sherman is a Senior AME.
     
  23. TCABM

    TCABM Cleared for Takeoff

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    Don’t. He put you in this predicament.

    The letter is also very clear that questions can be directed to the RFS. Try calling them to get an official answer.

    https://www.faa.gov/licenses_certificates/medical_certification/rfs/
     
    Last edited: Apr 1, 2019
  24. Matthew

    Matthew Touchdown! Greaser!

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    Yowza.

    That reminds me of the letters sent out a few years ago to all pilots who had used a certain DPE telling them they may need another checkride.
     
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  25. SkyDog58

    SkyDog58 Touchdown! Greaser! PoA Supporter

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    I believe when the FAA uses the word “must”, it is always used in the most imperative manner. No wiggle room.
     
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  26. TCABM

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    The question remains as to whether Basic Med is a viable medical certification path for this letter. One would think that since the FAA is providing guidance to use MedXpress, that would eliminate BasicMed as a path for this action.

    But I don’t make FAA policy and the RFS is identified as a POC, so that’s honestly where the OP should go to get an interpretation.

    Maybe @lbfjrmd or @bbchien will stop by and leave us with some wisdom.
     
  27. SkyDog58

    SkyDog58 Touchdown! Greaser! PoA Supporter

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    My reading of the situation is that a recipient of this letter must undergo a FAA medical with another AME or possibly face certificate action.

    They don’t send out 44709 reexamination letters with PBR notification just for giggles.

    It would appear they have good reasons to suspect medicals issued by this AME were not up to FAA standards. This could mean there is evidence that he knowingly signed off applicants who did not meet standards. Whether he did this out of kindness of heart or for compensation or for other reasons is likely unknown to anyone here. Maybe there is more to it than that. Was this AME known as an easy pass. Some are. Regardless, every FAA physical he conducted is now called into question. Remember once you begin a medical, it usually has one or two ultimate outcomes, issuance or denial. In this case the ultimate outcome is still undetermined. But since the process was started, it likely must be concluded which would preclude BasicMed at this time.

    If any of these folks who were issued a medical by this AME were truly qualified then they will easily pass the redo. These folks will just be out of a little cash and time but no real harm. They will fly on.

    If some were not actually qualified for a medical then they probably won’t pass the redo as they shouldn’t. The medical standards are there for a reason. This might indicate these people were part of the problem and probably knowingly.

    Overly easy or corrupt examiners and designees are something that cannot be tolerated by those who want to keep aviation safe. I hope that we all want it to be as safe as possible.
     
  28. TCABM

    TCABM Cleared for Takeoff

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    I agree with that sentiment. I’m just not willing to definitively speak on whether the FAA will accept BasicMed as a certification path, precisely because it states “possible”.

    But, there’s enough questions regarding what medical certificate you exercise while a Class III medical is unexpired and you’ve done everything necessary for BasicMed.
     
  29. Brad Z

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    I don’t know the specifics of the situation with the doc in question, but if you are being directed to submit for reexamination of a certificate, regardless of the certificate, and you do not comply, eventually the certificate will be revoked. If your last medical certificate is revoked, you are not eligible for BasicMed.

    Also, BasicMed is not a medical certificate, and does not qualify for reexamination. It is an alternative to the medical certification process.

    Unless your medical certificate is imminently about to expire, there is no way to avoid this other than submitting to a new medical certificate application and examination.
     
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  30. bbchien

    bbchien Touchdown! Greaser!

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    No you cannot. That is an agency denial of a current issuance. You have to pass a third class b4 you can reverse this denial and go to basic med.
     
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  31. FlySince9

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    Nowhere are they saying he doesn’t meet standards (he has not been disqualified). As long as he has held a 3rd class with a physical performed by another doctor in the last 10 years he should be able to switch... IMHO. Also, what’s to say the FAA only has a beef with something recent with this doctor and previous certifications aren’t in question?
     
  32. Health Nut

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    Thank you @bbchien. That is all I wanted to know and I appreciate your straight forward answer.
    I also appreciate the comments from the other posters too.

    The answer is what I expected. The main reason I even asked is that I had already discussed with my primary care Doc of going with Basic Med this year, and he agreed. He has already done a fair amount of research and now I will have to tell him that it will be 2 1/2 more years.

    To answer another question, this doctor is the only AME I have used since I was a student. So regardless of when, how or what he did, I have apparently (and unknowingly) never held a valid 3rd class medical. This is probably for the best. While I feel I am healthy enough, I did always feel like his medicals were rather cursory.
     
  33. Kenny Phillips

    Kenny Phillips Pattern Altitude

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    Your most recent exam is the medical of record, not one in the past. This (and the DPE thing) have both happened in my area of the world in the last twenty years; it's apparently not rare. Maybe some "wink-and-nod" passes for some items that may others cause a DQ, who knows. In any case, having to spend a buck-fifty (or whatever it costs in your area) for a new third class beats having to take a new practical!
     
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  34. FlySince9

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    Yea, but my point is that "medical of record" did not disqualify him for anything. The physical, itself (for whatever reason) was found to be invalid. So just like someone who allowed their physical to expire 2 years ago, Basic Med should be an option...
     
  35. TCABM

    TCABM Cleared for Takeoff

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    Did you see Dr Bruce’s post?

    Does that provide more clarity on the FAAs position?
     
  36. Half Fast

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    Clear enough.

    But here's a hypothetical: suppose the OP had already done Basic Med. Can the FAA then go back prior to the BM and invalidate a class 3, thereby invalidating the Basic Med?
     
  37. bflynn

    bflynn Final Approach

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    Yes. One of the issues that people are finding is that if they get BM while a 3rd class is active, they still have to maintain the 3rd class. Otherwise the 3rd class is revoked and then BM becomes invalid.
     
    Last edited: Apr 2, 2019
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  38. bflynn

    bflynn Final Approach

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    Unfortunate, this is not the case. The letter instructs recipients to get a new medical within 60 days or face action under 67.413, which is the section that talks about denials, suspension and revocations. If these people don’t get a medical, their medical will be revoked and BM becomes invalid.

    Here is the template released by the FAA

    http://www.alpa.org/-/media/ALPA/Files/pdfs/news-events/letters/20190305-florida-ame-letter.pdf
     
  39. FORANE

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    Uh, hadn't heard this. I am planning on going basic med; my 3rd class expires this month. You're saying I can't do basic med before the end of this month?
     
  40. Half Fast

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    Huh?

    I have a 3rd class and Basic Med. My 3rd class expires May 2020 but my SI is only good until May 2019. I believe I can just let the SI lapse and continue using Basic Med. Are you saying that's not correct?