All American Flights Grounded!

D

dweyant

Pre-takeoff checklist
Joined
May 3, 2012
Messages
377
Location
Georgetown, TX
Display Name
Display name:
Dan
Just saw this on the WSJ.

FAA has grounded all AA flights because of a computer failure.

-Dan
 
Reservation system which of course runs on computers and a network.
 
Apparently SABRE as well as the load/W&B/dispatch systems are down. ATCSCC says the ground stop is at the request of airline.
 
wsuffa said:
Apparently SABRE as well as the load/W&B/dispatch systems are down.
Click to expand...
Without the load/W&B/dispatch systems, they can't fly legally. If they didn't stop their own show after that failure, the FAA would bury them. So, technically, the FAA didn't ground AAL, but the FAA rules force the self-grounding.
 
No one at AA knows how to work a calculator anymore?
 
EdFred said:
No one at AA knows how to work a calculator anymore?
Click to expand...

Since the merger, Useless Air CEO Parker has removed all ground electronic devices and replaced them with abacuses (abacusi ?) in a cost reduction effort. Unfortunately, the training program was delayed. Cell phones have also been replaced with tin cans and string. Again, unfortunately, the string budget was inadequate to permit connection with key operational sites.

Cheers
 
Last edited:
I bet if this happened to United, Greg would still be able to fly. Too bad most airline pilots can't do basic stuff like flight plan anymore.
 
SkyHog said:
I bet if this happened to United, Greg would still be able to fly. Too bad most airline pilots can't do basic stuff like flight plan anymore.
Click to expand...

Funny story about that. I was working a station at the Air and Space Museum with a bunch of airline pilots, all based out of Dulles, where we were showing visitors aeronautical charts (sectionals and TACs). One of the Unitd 767 pilots asked me asked me, "What's that weird looking ring around DC?" I said something like, "Ummmmmmm...that's the SFRA? What rock have you been living under?" And she said something like "Psh...I haven't actually planned a flight in years. I don't think I've seen a sectional chart in at least a decade."
 
Ron Levy said:
Without the load/W&B/dispatch systems, they can't fly legally. If they didn't stop their own show after that failure, the FAA would bury them. So, technically, the FAA didn't ground AAL, but the FAA rules force the self-grounding.
Click to expand...

Ron, seriously...

All airlines have backup contingency plans for all the stuff you mentioned. Nothing shuts an airline down except themselves or the FAA.

They can dispatch, do W&B and figure out load manually.

You forgot weather, NOTAMs, performance, Crew Rest, Mx checks, Crew Duty, and MEL's...

ALL of those can be accomplished manually. Sheesh...
 
Captain said:
Ron, seriously...

All airlines have backup contingency plans for all the stuff you mentioned. Nothing shuts an airline down except themselves or the FAA.

They can dispatch, do W&B and figure out load manually.

You forgot weather, NOTAMs, performance, Crew Rest, Mx checks, Crew Duty, and MEL's...

ALL of those can be accomplished manually. Sheesh...
Click to expand...

So a friend of mine was on an AA flight outbound today. They pushed back, taxied out a bit, and then stopped. The weights were all wrong because the data from the loader was wrong as a result of the computer issues. The flight behind theirs had all the bags offloaded to weigh manually - minimum of 2 hour delay.

You can't do that for every flight, especially with the national system down.
 
There was a time when the ability to do a manual w&b was required job knowledge but that was years ago.
Now if the company computer system goes down everything comes to a halt.
 
flav8r said:
There was a time when the ability to do a manual w&b was required job knowledge but that was years ago.
Now if the company computer system goes down everything comes to a halt.
Click to expand...

Not true.

Are you speaking as an AA pilot?
 
Admittedly, it's been awhile since I flew 121. If what you say is indeed true then that's a sad statement.
 
Years ago (1991) the power to the Rochester Airport was accidentally cut while they were constructing the new airport terminal and we were one of the few carriers that were able to continue as if nothing happened.
The training back then required us to demonstrate proficiency on a monthly basis to perform a manual w&b that would include Winter or Summer weights.
 
I believe being able to do WnB data manually is available for pretty much all 121 carriers. Being able to do it manually for literally hundreds of flights leaving wtih in minutes of each other is impossible without the use of computers. Some dispatchers and load planners might be working dozens of flights simultaneously. And try looking up NOTAMS, weather, alternates, TFRs. etc for a coast to coast or even intercontinental flight without using a computer with internet access. The FSSs can't handle the regular volume of calls efficiently. Throw in thousands of 121 flights and you are screwed.

A 121 pilot that no longer flys GA has no need to ever look at a sectional chart. They're pretty much worthles for most airline operations.
 
maddog52 said:
I believe being able to do WnB data manually is available for pretty much all 121 carriers. Being able to do it manually for literally hundreds of flights leaving wtih in minutes of each other is impossible without the use of computers. Some dispatchers and load planners might be working dozens of flights simultaneously. And try looking up NOTAMS, weather, alternates, TFRs. etc for a coast to coast or even intercontinental flight without using a computer with internet access. The FSSs can't handle the regular volume of calls efficiently. Throw in thousands of 121 flights and you are screwed.

A 121 pilot that no longer flys GA has no need to ever look at a sectional chart. They're pretty much worthles for most airline operations.
Click to expand...

Ummmm....you do know there is a CREW on each and every one of those flights, right?

I swear to god, what do people think pilots do???
 
Captain said:
Ummmm....you do know there is a CREW on each and every one of those flights, right?

I swear to god, what do people think pilots do???
Click to expand...

The description from my friend:
Pilot explained that the computers and equipment used to weigh cargo were malfunctioning and uploading incorrect weights. So the flight was not allowed to take off.
Click to expand...

Now I'm guessing that having incorrect weights means that it's pretty hard to calculate by hand, no?

This note from the Dallas Morning News aviation blog (re Eagle):
We have just been informed that AMR has experienced a complete FOS outage. Flights are still operating but all releases must be faxed for the time being.
Click to expand...
And I'm guessing that it the releases have to be faxed, that the staff doing the faxing must be, um, backlogged, no?
 
wsuffa said:
The description from my friend:


Now I'm guessing that having incorrect weights means that it's pretty hard to calculate by hand, no?

This note from the Dallas Morning News aviation blog (re Eagle):

And I'm guessing that it the releases have to be faxed, that the staff doing the faxing must be, um, backlogged, no?
Click to expand...

Garbage in, garbage out, regardless of if the calculator is made of meat or transistors.
 
On the last Eagle trip I flew (as pax) the SIC was spinning a big white wheel that looked for all the world like a W/B plotter.

Captain said:
Ummmm....you do know there is a CREW on each and every one of those flights, right?

I swear to god, what do people think pilots do???
Click to expand...
 
SkyHog said:
I bet if this happened to United, Greg would still be able to fly. Too bad most airline pilots can't do basic stuff like flight plan anymore.
Click to expand...

I actually did that once. Computers were down so no flight plans were being filed. Since that was the only issue, I called the FSS up and filed what was on the flight plan. Don't know if it got us out any earlier, but it felt good to do it.

As for the crew doing flight plans, unfortunately it isn't that simple. In the 121 world, the dispatcher has a shared responsibility with the Captain. The Captain cannot do anything without the approval of the dispatcher, just as the dispatcher can't do anything without the approval of the Captain.
 
EdFred said:
No one at AA knows how to work a calculator anymore?
Click to expand...

They used to have forms for this - I doubt any of them exist except in a few pilots bags somewhere - and - they carry ipads now for most everything - except for a few stubborn old bastards.
 
comanchepilot said:
They used to have forms for this - I doubt any of them exist except in a few pilots bags somewhere - and - they carry ipads now for most everything - except for a few stubborn old bastards.
Click to expand...
They need Jesse's WnB app!
 
dweyant said:
Just saw this on the WSJ.

FAA has grounded all AA flights because of a computer failure.

-Dan
Click to expand...

My girlfriends mom JUST now landed in Miami...was stuck in Dallas for much of the outage and was awake and up at about 4am here in Colorado Springs for her flight out
 
Captain said:
Ummmm....you do know there is a CREW on each and every one of those flights, right?

I swear to god, what do people think pilots do???
Click to expand...


Ummm yes I do. And you do know the crews can't do everything that needs to be done if they don't have the information they need?
 
maddog52 said:
Ummm yes I do. And you do know the crews can't do everything that needs to be done if they don't have the information they need?
Click to expand...

Exactly what information is missing?
 
Captain said:
Exactly what information is missing?
Click to expand...

Let's see. Pax can be determined. But the weight of cargo/bags in the pits could be very hard to determine if the system is disrupted. And that might not even matter if the company doesn't furnish the crew with the WnB charts or wiz wheels for the aircraft. Runway specific takeoff data that most majors use might not be available either. And then there is all the normal stuff I mentioned earlier. Not to mention all the data has to be passed through and approved by the dispatcher and meet the FARs/OPSPECS for the carrier.

Reverting to manual procedures might not be a big deal for a small outfit operating a few dozen flights a day. But when an operator runs thousands of flights a day through a system designed to use computers and those computers fail, there are going to be disruptions no matter how good the back up plan or great the crews are.
 
Although today it sounds like the AIRINC performance data was down..

Sabre is the most unreliable termites holding hands computer system in the world....AA invented the electronic reservations system (SABRE) in the late 60s and then It was The cats ass of software/hardware ....that SAME system more or less still runs the show today (and for lots and lots of airlines) . I use sabre for several things ( like schedule bidding) and it won't even run on anything later than IE 6 via the Internet...It BLOWS MY MIND how far behind airline computer systems are compared to the rest of the world given what they do....Billions to be made to the next Zuckerberg that overhaul and update this crap...although I hear Lufthansa is about to be that entity
 
Last edited:
A high school friend (decades ago) is a pilot for AA. He posted on Facebook that he was stuck on the ground at MIA. They couldn't close out their manifest without the computer system, so they sat until it was fixed. Long day.
 
Of course, given the intelligence of some of the AA employees at the out stations, it's no loss how archaic Saabre is. We arrived at EYW last year to find about a quarter of the flight missing the bags and only a complete idiot who couldn't figure out how to work the computer (his major issue is he didn't know how to power it on, I did so for him). It turns out that our bags had been pitched off the ATR back at MIA because the flight was overweight. Of course, nobody bothered to tell anybody at the destination that there might be some affected passengers.

Finally giving up on the computer entirely, the one semi-competent employee took our names and cellphone numbers on paper to call us. Given the general level of incompetence, I decided to meet the next flight personally rather than waiting for them to deliver our bags.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top