Airventure -- New Home

Agree that the summer weather is tough, but the event has to be in the summer or it'll be basically impossible for anyone in grade school or college to attend.

Depends on the intended demographic. Almost none of those would be pilots or owners or builders. Sun 'n Fun in April 2013 allegedly had about 150,000 in attendance while Airventure 2012 reported about 500,000.

Sun 'n Fun doesn't have a national organization associated with it, nor quite as long a history as the national EAA fly-in, and is a pretty long haul for anyone west of the Mississippi. Yet still managed to grow fairly well with all those ticks against it.
 
Since the issue with being taxed for the control tower is a federal one - not a local one - moving the event makes absolutely zero sense and accomplishes absolutely nothing. What am I missing here? The FAA will follow the event to any airport...

But... But... But... I wanna whine about it and pretend there's such a thing as airspace that isn't controlled by the FAA! :rolleyes:
 
OK, the first part of this thread is pretty much run its course. I'd like to thank those of you who stayed on topic, and for the rest of you, nice try.

Let's now list BROAD subjects that our ideal fly-in (*) might have. Weather? Accommodations? Nearby interest? Target market? Local help from government? Large expanses of raw land?

(*) And don't call it Oshkosh. Oshkosh, headed the way it is going, will implode upon itself in sweet time. What we are building will be the NEXT 50 years of fly-in. Our kids and our kids kids will doubtless do this again after we are gone to replace our ideal after the inevitable maturity implosion occurs.

So let's pick a name, purely arbitrary -- and in honor of Richard Bach, who wrote about HIS ideal fly-in 50 years ago, I'm proposing that we call it the SEBASTIAN fly-in. (Richard's great-great granddaddy was Johann SEBASTIAN Bach.)

See you over on the new thread once we pick what we think is the most important next subject.

By the way, what I glean from THIS thread is that we draw a quadrilateral across the central US starting at Sault St. Marie, down to Little Rock, across to El Paso, up to Spearfish SD, back to SSM.

As somebody suggested, we draw concentric circles with Kansas City at the center and the further away we get from the center the less desirable the location. This is NOT to say that if we find something 500 miles away with everything else perfect that we wouldn't settle on it.

Thanks,,
Jim
 
Screw the center of the country, fly to someplace nice. Mountains, beach, lakes, whatever. Big airports are just big parking lots with cooler vehicles. I'd go to this one before Oshkosh. I vote we replace Oshkosh with burning man.:lol:
 
There is a lot of airspace that isn't controlled by the FAA. No need to pretend.

Yeah, it's just all outside the United States, where the aviation authorities make the FAA look like the Friendliest Aviation Agency.

And I do not mean uncontrolled in terms of ATC, I mean uncontrolled in terms of the FAA. They "own" all of the airspace in the United States. Period. "Class G" this and that doesn't matter, if you have a fly-in the size of Oshkosh anywhere in the US, the FAA will be there and there will be air traffic control. Period.
 
Let's now list BROAD subjects that our ideal fly-in (*) might have. Weather?

72ºF, sunny and CAVU every day. In the summer.

Accommodations?

Lots of camping on the field! It's the only way to do it. :D

Nearby interest?

Big Freaking Theme Park for the kids, and Big Freaking Mall for the females. Otherwise... Hello, there's an airshow here! ;)

Target market?

Uhhh... GA pilots? :dunno:

Local help from government?

Yes. Oshkosh makes a ton of money off of Airventure. I bet Rockford is kicking themselves for letting it slide away...

Large expanses of raw land?

Doesn't have to be raw, just free of pesky neighbors. Aviation enthusiast neighbors are welcomed, as long as they're not in line with the runways.

(*) And don't call it Oshkosh. Oshkosh, headed the way it is going, will implode upon itself in sweet time. What we are building will be the NEXT 50 years of fly-in. Our kids and our kids kids will doubtless do this again after we are gone to replace our ideal after the inevitable maturity implosion occurs.

Ummm... OK.

So let's pick a name, purely arbitrary -- and in honor of Richard Bach, who wrote about HIS ideal fly-in 50 years ago, I'm proposing that we call it the SEBASTIAN fly-in. (Richard's great-great granddaddy was Johann SEBASTIAN Bach.)

Or are you subliminally trying to get us to have it at X26? ;)

By the way, what I glean from THIS thread is that we draw a quadrilateral across the central US starting at Sault St. Marie, down to Little Rock, across to El Paso, up to Spearfish SD, back to SSM.

I think there are probably some reasonable places that don't fall within that box that would work. Hell, OSH barely fits in that box. IN, KY, TN.
 
Might as well do White Sands New Mexico! I bet a dollar their runway is big enough, and they have enough free parking! All the free camping that one could need, and plenty of room for pop up hotels!


Sent from my iPhone using An APP that doesn't pay me to advertise for them.
 
Haven't been there, but assuming the sea-plane base is just down the road a few miles like OSH?

Might as well do White Sands New Mexico! I bet a dollar their runway is big enough, and they have enough free parking! All the free camping that one could need, and plenty of room for pop up hotels!


Sent from my iPhone using An APP that doesn't pay me to advertise for them.
 
Screw the center of the country, fly to someplace nice. Mountains, beach, lakes, whatever. Big airports are just big parking lots with cooler vehicles. I'd go to this one before Oshkosh. I vote we replace Oshkosh with burning man.:lol:

That would be a cultural experience for sure!
 
KCSM. I haven't been there for over 10 years, but it sure seemed big to me in a 152. And I never saw another plane while there. I was told it was a SAC base back in the day.

We've got a number of WWII training fields surrounding the Memphis area just outside the Bravo airspace. KARG, KSGT, and KBYH have big runways and no tower. Well, KBYH has a big runway, but the other two aren't bad.
 
What in the world is this thread about??? Why would we move Airventure from KOSH? Are we to outsource our country's and might I add, the world's greatest fly in to what... Mexico or something? That's what it would take to get beyond the FAA's reach.

An Airventure with no tower means maybe 3,000 planes tops fly in. Many warbirds will stay home. Many exhibitors will stay home. Puny show. Crashes hurt and we get people dying every year on their way to, or from Oshkosh every year as it is. They need a tower with the usual proceedures... period.

Moving it inside the US doesn't solve anything that I can think of. Maybe I haven't read enough of all the rants. Rant on. Oshkosh is a wonderful little town IMO.
 
Well, if you are on an aviation forum and can't be bothered to look up an airport code.....


Well then hell, lets just move it to California. That would be convenient and GA friendly enough for everyone, wouldn't it......
But then everyone departing the show eastward would be harassed by the Dept. of Homeland Insecurity! :rolleyes:
Seriously, if it were to move, I think it would have to stay roughly along the same line of longitude, for fairness' sake.
I can't make a suggestion, because it seems ridiculous. I think they'd sooner stop hosting Airventure than move the whole thing, museum and all.
 
I don't think there's anything you can't land at Oshkosh. Maybe a 707, I hear they were really terrible runway hogs, but 18/36 is 8,000'.
John Travolta managed it quite nicely a few years ago... I saw it with my own eyes.
Mind you, it wasn't at max gross...:D
 
OSH is the only airport at which the USAF F-4's are allowed to land that doesn't have a catch net. We stayed at the same house as Col Miller (commander of the unit) and spent a lot of time discussing the drone squadron in FL as well as some of the device testing that is best done on Phantoms because they are so strong and so powerful they can handle almost anything.

John Travolta managed it quite nicely a few years ago... I saw it with my own eyes.
Mind you, it wasn't at max gross...:D
 
Screw the center of the country, fly to someplace nice. Mountains, beach, lakes, whatever. Big airports are just big parking lots with cooler vehicles. I'd go to this one before Oshkosh. I vote we replace Oshkosh with burning man.:lol:

Dangit, you beat me to the idea to join Burning Man. :)

Salt flats. Who really needs runways anyhow?

Or Nevada Test Site/Groom Lake, if we want to really take a stand and show the gummint who's the boss through some civil disobedience, I suppose.
 
I think you will find that in a decade school summer vacation will be a thing of the past. Remember, summer vacation started so that the kids could help with the harvest at home. That is an anachronism WELL past its prime.

Schools can't afford to let the facilities sit idle for 25% or more of the year. That's just a fact those of us in education are facing. There are dozens of models out there trying to solve that problem. Lots of them are focusing on the fact that winter (short days meaning kids walk home in the dark, snow days, lousy weather for transportation) might be a viable alternative. Trimester where the kids get to choose which two out of three "semesters" to attend are one solution, as are "shifts" (early morning, afternoon, evening). The academic world is changing faces and that needs to be factored in.

So much for stay-on-topic...
 
So much for stay-on-topic...

What is the topic anyway? I still don't get why we would want to move Air Venture? Is it just a what if question, sort of like what if the state of Wisconsin blew with a hidden volcano no one knew about?
 
What is the topic anyway? I still don't get why we would want to move Air Venture? Is it just a what if question, sort of like what if the state of Wisconsin blew with a hidden volcano no one knew about?

After 138 posts, you haven't figured out the topic?
 
Dangit, you beat me to the idea to join Burning Man. :)

I luv ya dude, but I'm not going back to Burning Man. I've seen enough saggy tits to last a lifetime and then some. :yikes: :D
 
Back
Top