Airventure -- New Home

weirdjim

weirdjim

Ejection Handle Pulled
Joined
Jul 8, 2008
Messages
4,171
Location
Grass Valley, CA (KGOO)
Display Name
Display name:
weirdjim
There has been a lot of kvetching and peeving in another thread about moving Oshkosh-Airventure. ASIDE from the multi-$M investment EAA has in Oshkosh and ASIDE from the only reason Airventure isn't in East Undershirt XY is that the Poberezny homestead in the '50s was Hales Corners WI, what is the perfect place?

Let me start it off with Jay's contention that it should have a bazillion foot runway from an abandoned AFB.

PRO: Can land a lot of exhibition aircraft like the C5 and a 747 no sweat.

CON: Can land a lot of gulfstream and C-421 stuff with people who think their stink don't smell.

Let's thrash this one around for a few days and then I'll throw out another consideration ... and another ... and another ...

But PLEASE, I BEG of you STAY ON TOPIC.

Jim
 
ASIDE from that, Mrs. Lincoln . . .
weirdjim said:
There has been a lot of kvetching and peeving in another thread about moving Oshkosh-Airventure. ASIDE from the multi-$M investment EAA has in Oshkosh and ASIDE from the only reason Airventure isn't in East Undershirt XY is that the Poberezny homestead in the '50s was Hales Corners WI, what is the perfect place?

Let me start it off with Jay's contention that it should have a bazillion foot runway from an abandoned AFB.

PRO: Can land a lot of exhibition aircraft like the C5 and a 747 no sweat.

CON: Can land a lot of gulfstream and C-421 stuff with people who think their stink don't smell.

Let's thrash this one around for a few days and then I'll throw out another consideration ... and another ... and another ...

But PLEASE, I BEG of you STAY ON TOPIC.

Jim
Click to expand...
 
Move it to Port Aransas TX... That will give Jay Honeck something else to ***** about...
 
Chill out weird Jim. It's an open forum and it is open to anything. You wanna insist on CONTROL, go post on an electrical engineering forum..... :yes:
 
What problem are you trying to fix ? Is it not hot enough in WI during the last week of July ?
 
I like Oshkosh. I think it's weird when I hear people call it "EAA" or even "Airventure".
 
Moving would be tough, considering all the infrastructure that has to go with it. The various buildings, roads to handle xxx thousand cars, etc. Plus the fact that you no longer have on-site year-round cadre or a convenient place to store all the impedimenta of the fly-in to avoid shipping it back and forth all the time.

I'm not that familiar with the airports around Oshkosh, but perhaps there's something in the same part of Wisconsin.

Best solution would probably be to modify OSH to meet the new reality: Shut down the tower permanently, tell folks it's an uncontrolled field now.

Ron Wanttaja
 
Goofy said:
Chill out weird Jim. It's an open forum and it is open to anything. You wanna insist on CONTROL, go post on an electrical engineering forum..... :yes:
Click to expand...

I did chill out. I said please and thanks -- that's playing pattycake in the sandbox. You want me to play horse's ass, I can do that too.

The engineer in me wants one, JUST ONE, of these threads to get something worth our time done. JUST ONE.

"Thanks"

Jim
 
wanttaja said:
Moving would be tough, considering all the infrastructure that has to go with it. The various buildings, roads to handle xxx thousand cars, etc. Plus the fact that you no longer have on-site year-round cadre or a convenient place to store all the impedimenta of the fly-in to avoid shipping it back and forth all the time.

I'm not that familiar with the airports around Oshkosh, but perhaps there's something in the same part of Wisconsin.

Best solution would probably be to modify OSH to meet the new reality: Shut down the tower permanently, tell folks it's an uncontrolled field now.

Ron Wanttaja
Click to expand...

Please, Ron, infrastructure is a different consideration. There may be answers to it. There may be not. Let's attack the beast one leg at a time.

Jim
 
weirdjim said:
There has been a lot of kvetching and peeving in another thread about moving Oshkosh-Airventure. ASIDE from the multi-$M investment EAA has in Oshkosh and ASIDE from the only reason Airventure isn't in East Undershirt XY is that the Poberezny homestead in the '50s was Hales Corners WI, what is the perfect place?

Let me start it off with Jay's contention that it should have a bazillion foot runway from an abandoned AFB.

PRO: Can land a lot of exhibition aircraft like the C5 and a 747 no sweat.

CON: Can land a lot of gulfstream and C-421 stuff with people who think their stink don't smell.

Let's thrash this one around for a few days and then I'll throw out another consideration ... and another ... and another ...

But PLEASE, I BEG of you STAY ON TOPIC.

Jim
Click to expand...

CON: The museum is located in OSH. The other infrastructure aside, I can't imagine the discussion about abandoning the museum or the cost to relocate. The museum is VERY nice. When the kids were small, we went every year during the show and it was really nice having KidVenture there right next to whatever they call the grass field with all the classics and the helicopter rides. We even flew from central Indiana up to the museum a few times in the winter when the skies cleared and we just wanted a few hours of cross country ... kids loved scooting along the Chicago shore and the museum at the end kept them interested.
 
obviously either IXD or k34 would be perfect.
 
Well, it needs to be someplace in a city with enough hotels/restaurants to support it, but that doesn't have scheduled airline service, that can be shut down without causing serious problems, but has a runway big and thick enough to handle heavys, and is away from a Bravo.
And it has to have enough space for tens of thousands of planes, plus hundreds of acres for camping, plus parking for thousands of cars.

That's a tough set of criteria to meet. No doubt there's places that can meet it, but I sure can't think of any off the top of my head. Especially if you say that it should be near the center of the country.
 
weirdjim said:
The temperature on the field is another parameter we can consider later. Please focus on the subject at hand.

Thanks,

Jim
Click to expand...

What is the subject at hand ? That you have a dumb idea and won't entertain the thoughts of anyone who doesn't cheer 'bravo, jim has a dumb idea' ? :dunno:
 
PilotAlan said:
That's a tough set of criteria to meet. No doubt there's places that can meet it, but I sure can't think of any off the top of my head. Especially if you say that it should be near the center of the country.
Click to expand...

Airborne air-park ?
 
weirdjim said:
I did chill out. I said please and thanks -- that's playing pattycake in the sandbox. You want me to play horse's ass, I can do that too.

The engineer in me wants one, JUST ONE, of these threads to get something worth our time done. JUST ONE.

"Thanks"

Jim
Click to expand...

The question wasn't worth our time. None of us can move the event.

That's my inner engineer talking.

How about them apples? ;)
 
1XA2- Chase Field near Beeville,TX - looks good on paper....

aguja9y3.jpg
 
The first EAA convention was at BUU Burlington, WI.

The town that had the pattern changed to right traffic to "avoid overflying city" told EAA they didn't their kind so they moved to Oshkosh.
 
PilotAlan said:
Well, it needs to be someplace in a city with enough hotels/restaurants to support it, but that doesn't have scheduled airline service, that can be shut down without causing serious problems, but has a runway big and thick enough to handle heavys, and is away from a Bravo.
And it has to have enough space for tens of thousands of planes, plus hundreds of acres for camping, plus parking for thousands of cars.

That's a tough set of criteria to meet. No doubt there's places that can meet it, but I sure can't think of any off the top of my head. Especially if you say that it should be near the center of the country.
Click to expand...

Thank you, thank you sir. First on-topic post.

Jim
 
iflyforfun said:
CON: The museum is located in OSH. .
Click to expand...

Not that I'm proposing it for a number of reasons, but Castle AFB near Merced is abandoned AND has ten times the vacant space that the museum has ... that and you can make a dogleg by Disneyland for the kids or Rodeo Drive in Hollywood for mama.\\

Jim
 
weirdjim said:
Looks like this group has a proportionate percentage of jerks.
\
Jim
Click to expand...


Well, if you are on an aviation forum and can't be bothered to look up an airport code.....


Well then hell, lets just move it to California. That would be convenient and GA friendly enough for everyone, wouldn't it......
 
Jim Logajan said:
What problem is solved by moving it?
Click to expand...

weirdjim said:
Please stay on topic. If you have nothing to contribute, don't.

Thanks,

Jim
Click to expand...

You used the phrase "perfect place" and all I want to know is what you mean by that. Otherwise I'll propose Eugene Oregon since that would be perfect for me because i'd have a place to stay nearby.

There. I proposed a new home for Airventure. I gave a perfectly valid rationale. It even fits my criteria for perfect.
 
N2124v said:
1XA2- Chase Field near Beeville,TX - looks good on paper....

aguja9y3.jpg
Click to expand...

This is EXACTLY the airport I was thinking about.

Only trouble is -- the event must be held during summer vacation, or we lose the family attendance. That requirement tends to eliminate any airports South of the Mason-Dixon line, since the temperatures in summer can be rather like a pizza oven.

So...a Texas location would work in the Fall, but then you lose the kids. Not good.
 
MSPAviator said:
I like Oshkosh. I think it's weird when I hear people call it "EAA" or even "Airventure".
Click to expand...

I like -- no, love -- Oshkosh, too, but the FAA isn't going to let this rest, now that EAA has agreed to extortion.

One potential solution is to move the event to uncontrolled airspace.
 
weirdjim said:
Not that I'm proposing it for a number of reasons, but Castle AFB near Merced is abandoned AND has ten times the vacant space that the museum has ... that and you can make a dogleg by Disneyland for the kids or Rodeo Drive in Hollywood for mama.\\

Jim
Click to expand...

Methinks a central US location is best, Jim.
 
Jim Logajan said:
You used the phrase "perfect place" and all I want to know is what you mean by that. Otherwise I'll propose Eugene Oregon since that would be perfect for me because i'd have a place to stay nearby.

There. I proposed a new home for Airventure. I gave a perfectly valid rationale. It even fits my criteria for perfect.
Click to expand...

Why is everyone being so obtuse? We all know what we are up against with Oshkosh this year -- and probably all future years. The FAA is going to kill Airventure as we know it with user's fees, and it behooves us all to try to think of positive, workable solutions.

One possible solution would be to move the event to an uncontrolled airport, and tell the FAA to take a hike. An abandoned air base (of which there are plenty) would be perfect.

How about Rantoul, IL -- the old Chanute Air Force Base? The runways are a bit short, at 5000', but there is LOTS of infrastructure.
http://www.airnav.com/airport/KTIP
 
Jay Honeck said:
Methinks a central US location is best, Jim.
Click to expand...

Methinks so too, Jay, which is why I did the disclaimer on "I'm not proposing this place" IN RED if you will notice. I'm just more familiar with stuff on the left coast so I used it as AN EXAMPLE and not a proposal.

"Central US" to me means anywhere from the east side of the Rockies to a little east of the Mississippi.

But right now we are NOT talking about WHAT airport, just what SORT of airport (runways? Control tower? Uncontrolled field?) we might think optimum. When we get to other considerations (weather etc.) I'll fight to the bitter end NOT to put it in thunderstorm alley OR where it is IFR until noon half the time, but that is for a LATER discussion. You don't eat this pig all at once ... just a leg at a time.\\

Jim
 
Jay Honeck said:
Only trouble is -- the event must be held during summer vacation, or we lose the family attendance.
Click to expand...

I think you will find that in a decade school summer vacation will be a thing of the past. Remember, summer vacation started so that the kids could help with the harvest at home. That is an anachronism WELL past its prime.

Schools can't afford to let the facilities sit idle for 25% or more of the year. That's just a fact those of us in education are facing. There are dozens of models out there trying to solve that problem. Lots of them are focusing on the fact that winter (short days meaning kids walk home in the dark, snow days, lousy weather for transportation) might be a viable alternative. Trimester where the kids get to choose which two out of three "semesters" to attend are one solution, as are "shifts" (early morning, afternoon, evening). The academic world is changing faces and that needs to be factored in.

It all depends on whether you are trying to solve the "Oshkosh" question for a decade or a century. That's another parameter to consider.

Jim
 
CA is out, if you think thefaa is into extortion try and throw the party in CA. It has to be a hick state lest the permit mongers kill you. The EAA should play the FAAs game, cancel it for a year, let all the folks that lose money and fun get ****y with whatever is left of our representative govt. That'll work. Unless we are fully evolved and the b'crat branch of govt has no check. If that is the case it is all done anyway.
 
weirdjim said:
Schools can't afford to let the facilities sit idle for 25% or more of the year. That's just a fact those of us in education are facing.
Click to expand...

Facility cost is only a small part of school budgets, most of it is personnel and pension related. If you run the schools through the summer, you are still going to have the same need for staffing.

The best reason to extend the school year and to cut summer break down to something reasonable like 4-6wks would be to improve academic performance of the students and to reduce juvenile delinquency during the summer months.
 
weilke said:
Facility cost is only a small part of school budgets, most of it is personnel and pension related. If you run the schools through the summer, you are still going to have the same need for staffing.

The best reason to extend the school year and to cut summer break down to something reasonable like 4-6wks would be to improve academic performance of the students and to reduce juvenile delinquency during the summer months.
Click to expand...

Yup, students lapse in knowledge over the summer poor students more then others. Summer vacation is never going away, besides the teachers unions you have the summer camp industrial complex.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top