Airspace question

SixPapaCharlie

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Why does KADM have the 2 class E to the surface blocks extending out?
I am assuming some sort of instrument approaches maybe?

Why do that and why not just have class D to the surface?
 
Yes, the Class E extensions are for instrument approaches. This far out, aircraft would still be talking to Approach.
 
Hey Bryan, yes, this is protection for instrument approaches.

Why on those runways and not on the others? Such is the vagaries of airspace development.

Why not Class D? Pragmatically, there is no need for D, and the rulemaking process for Class D is more difficult than for E, since it imposes a restriction on the flying public. Class E extensions are more palatable and invite less opposition.
 
Why does KADM have the 2 class E to the surface blocks extending out?
I am assuming some sort of instrument approaches maybe?

Why do that and why not just have class D to the surface?
I didn't look at the chart but it's very likely your guess is correct. What is now Class E to the ground used to be called a control zone and it's there to protect aircraft on a published approach from other (VFR) traffic. FWIW, Class E to the ground requires a weather "observer" at the airport IIRC.

As to the question about Class D, that serves an entirely different purpose.
 
Class e is to protect the instrument approaches for the airport,extending the class D doesn't really do the same thing. We don't need the class Ds to get any larger.
 
Ocassionally you'll see a D extension as well. I cut through the Dobbins (MGE) D extension a lot. Traffic is dense around that area.
 
I am guessing this is similar to some of the class Ds I see where it is mostly circular but it has a square part jutting out?
 
Why does KADM have the 2 class E to the surface blocks extending out?
I am assuming some sort of instrument approaches maybe?

Why do that and why not just have class D to the surface?

They're arrival extensions to the surface area. If the arrival extensions to a Class D surface area are less than two miles they're made Class D airspace. If any are more than two miles then they're all made Class E. It's done that way so that VFR aircraft just flying through an extension don't have to call ATC.
 
Hey Bryan, yes, this is protection for instrument approaches.

Why on those runways and not on the others? Such is the vagaries of airspace development.
Could the "vagary" be that the only instrument approaches to the airport are routed through there?

Byan, here's a pretty good learning rule of thumb: almost all airspace issues that do not involve special use airspace (restricted areas and the like) are there to separate VFR traffic from IFR traffic.
 
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I am guessing this is similar to some of the class Ds I see where it is mostly circular but it has a square part jutting out?
I don't have an example handy, but if the Class D itself is shaped differently, it's usually for a reason other than protecting an instrument approach.
 
Could the "vagary" be that the only instrument approaches to the airport are routed through there.

Bad word choice, I should have said "arcane factors".

In this particular example, there are approaches from three directions at ADM - runway 13 (the extension to the NW), a VOR-A from the southwest that is aligned with the (now closed) runway (4?), and one to runway 31 from the southeast (where there is no extension).

Notice that the whole area is within the shaded magenta indicating Class E at 700 AGL. Also, in airspace design, a 300 ft buffer is applied to this, so effectively an aircraft at 1000 AGL is considered to be exiting this Class E.

The FAF for the RNAV (GPS) RWY 13 (6.2nm final) is far enough outside the Class D that a descending aircraft could descend below the 700' Class E prior to entering the Class D - but not by much, so it's a short extension.

The FAF for the VOR-A is well outside the Class D (it's an 8.8nm final), so the extension has to be longer to contain the aircraft within Class E.

The approaches for runway 31 (GPS and ILS) have a FAF that is 5.7 and 5.4 nm long, respectively, so the aircraft doesn't descend below 700' AGL until within the Class D, so never breaks out the bottom of Class E.

Airspace boundary calculation is something that AeroNav Products does with every instrument approach, then the information is turned over to the airspace people. It relies on steeper than normal descent gradients to account for varying pilot technique.

This is covered in more detail than you'd ever want to know in FAAO 8260.19F, chapter 5, including how it's calculated for stuff like procedure turns that don't have a FAF.
 
What's interesting is that if KSPS was centered in its class D then it wouldn't need the bump.

Which begs the question, why isn't it centered?

Chart makers have some leeway in exact positioning of symbols for readability and clutter purposes.

FAAO 7400.9 defines the Sheppard AFB Class D as a 4.9 nm radius around KSPS, with an extension that is 1 nm each side of the localizer course out to 5.7 nm. So it is exactly centered on the airport, it just doesn't look it.
 
Chart makers have some leeway in exact positioning of symbols for readability and clutter purposes.

FAAO 7400.9 defines the Sheppard AFB Class D as a 4.9 nm radius around KSPS, with an extension that is 1 nm each side of the localizer course out to 5.7 nm. So it is exactly centered on the airport, it just doesn't look it.

Interesting.

The class D circle is shifted a full 1/2 mile south of the airport center on the sectional chart. That's a pretty big error in this age of GPS nav and, as a result, A NORDO pilot with a 496 giving himself 1/4 mile of "cushion" might actually be busting the space by 1/4 mile.

That's quite interesting.

I would have expected more accurate representations.
 
Interesting.

The class D circle is shifted a full 1/2 mile south of the airport center on the sectional chart. That's a pretty big error in this age of GPS nav and, as a result, A NORDO pilot with a 496 giving himself 1/4 mile of "cushion" might actually be busting the space by 1/4 mile.

That's quite interesting.

I would have expected more accurate representations.

Actually, it appears that the airport is shifted, not the airspace. Go to skyvector or vfrmap and enter "KSPS", you'll see that the airport isn't centered in the crosshairs, but the airspace does seem to be.

I went to Google Maps and entered the coordinates for the airport (the Airport Reference Point). The ARP is about in the middle of the westernmost "diagonal" runway on the sectional (runway 15R/33L), so it looks like the airport is displaced about 1 nm to the north of actual.

A 496 doesn't show scanned sectional charts, so your example wouldn't be a problem for the NORDO pilot. The Class D would be plotted at a 4.9nm radius from the airport coordinates.
 
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Interesting.

The class D circle is shifted a full 1/2 mile south of the airport center on the sectional chart. That's a pretty big error in this age of GPS nav and, as a result, A NORDO pilot with a 496 giving himself 1/4 mile of "cushion" might actually be busting the space by 1/4 mile.

That's quite interesting.

I would have expected more accurate representations.

The Class D circle looks pretty good, it's the airfield that's shifted.
 
I don't have an example handy, but if the Class D itself is shaped differently, it's usually for a reason other than protecting an instrument approach.

What might that reason be?

KIXD class D has an interesting shape. It has a wedge cut out of it for another field right next door.

But I think the discussion was about extensions from the class D and not an exemption cut out of it.
 
What might that reason be?

Other airspace (e.g., KVUO/KPDX, KLGB/KFUL, KHHR/KLAX, or KPAO/KNUQ -- many other examples).

Or terrain (e.g., KSBD). Arrival from the north to KSBD through the lateral boundaries of Class D is, ahem, problematic. KBUR has cutouts from Class C for the same reason. Very limited shelf on the northeast.

Or international borders (e.g., KSDM).
 
KIXD class D has an interesting shape. It has a wedge cut out of it for another field right next door.

But I think the discussion was about extensions from the class D and not an exemption cut out of it.

Likewise.
 
Other airspace (e.g., KVUO/KPDX, KLGB/KFUL, KHHR/KLAX, or KPAO/KNUQ -- many other examples).

Or terrain (e.g., KSBD). Arrival from the north to KSBD through the lateral boundaries of Class D is, ahem, problematic. KBUR has cutouts from Class C for the same reason. Very limited shelf on the northeast.

Or international borders (e.g., KSDM).

I wouldn't call those extensions.
 
Actually, it appears that the airport is shifted, not the airspace. Go to skyvector or vfrmap and enter "KSPS", you'll see that the airport isn't centered in the crosshairs, but the airspace does seem to be.

Thanks, I learned something new today and that's always a good thing. ForeFlight supports your assertion also...plug KSPS in as a destination and it overlays the runways and center lines a good 1/2 mile south of where they're depicted on the sectional.

A 496 doesn't show scanned sectional charts, so your example wouldn't be a problem for the NORDO pilot. The Class D would be plotted at a 4.9nm radius from the airport coordinates.

Yeah, bad example as I'm now used to ForeFlight.

The Class D circle looks pretty good, it's the airfield that's shifted.

Is it just me or is there an echo in here? :rolleyes:

I always get a big kick out of how you and Levy can never acknowledge that the correct answer was already given. Is it soooo hard to just:
What Russ said

FTFY
 
I always get a big kick out of how you and Levy can never acknowledge that the correct answer was already given. Is it soooo hard to just:


FTFY

I view and respond in linear mode. I typically do not read to the last message and then back up to respond. If I do happen to see that the question has been answered correctly I don't respond at all. And I don't give a rat's ass how you get your kicks.
 
I view and respond in linear mode.

Yeah, so do I.

But I actually READ the thread before responding.

Communication, even here, is a two way street. You and your alter ego, Ron, seem to not understand that.

(Hey, Russ, thanks again for edumacating me today!) ;)
 
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