Airline Slowdown

TCABM said:
That’s also how it was pre-Colgan here and how most of the rest of the world operates. The EASA MPL.

Multi pilot licence for aeroplanes | UK Civil Aviation Authority

UK Civil Aviation Authority (CAA) guidance on how to apply for a multi-pilot licence (MPL) for aeroplanes.
www.caa.co.uk www.caa.co.uk

The basic process is you get a spot in the airline’s training program and they send you thru their structured program to fly their plane. In return, you sign a training contract.
Click to expand...
There's been an interesting shift from "hire 250-hour pilots and wash 'em out if they suck" to "hire 1500-hour pilots and keep giving them extra sims/IOE until they pass." I don't think the new paradigm has increased safety.
 
dmspilot said:
There's been an interesting shift from "hire 250-hour pilots and wash 'em out if they suck" to "hire 1500-hour pilots and keep giving them extra sims/IOE until they pass." I don't think the new paradigm has increased safety.
Click to expand...
And yet, accident rates say otherwise. I don’t disagree that carrying a pilot through training that is marginal isn’t a great plan. That’s regardless of the criteria used to hire them. I also think that a pilot who spent a thousand hours instructing folks how to fly should have far better airmanship than someone with a wet multi-commercial.
 
Old farts are still timing out bigly over the next 10 yrs. Gonna need pip-squeaks to replace them. Keep training gents.
 
dmspilot said:
There's been an interesting shift from "hire 250-hour pilots and wash 'em out if they suck" to "hire 1500-hour pilots and keep giving them extra sims/IOE until they pass." I don't think the new paradigm has increased safety.
Click to expand...
I suspect the old way was better. This way makes non-pro pilots feel better. It’s all smoke and mirrors.
 
YakDrvr said:
And yet, accident rates say otherwise. I don’t disagree that carrying a pilot through training that is marginal isn’t a great plan. That’s regardless of the criteria used to hire them. I also think that a pilot who spent a thousand hours instructing folks how to fly should have far better airmanship than someone with a wet multi-commercial.
Click to expand...
The accident rates say what?
 
dmspilot said:
The accident rates say what?
Click to expand...
Accident rates for 121 carriers are lower now under the ATP required in both seats than they were under the old wet commercial model. In other words, airlines crash less often than they used to.
 
YakDrvr said:
Accident rates for 121 carriers are lower now under the ATP required in both seats than they were under the old wet commercial model. In other words, airlines crash less often than they used to.
Click to expand...
Really, says who? Provide evidence. Is it statistically significant? What is the p-value?

We were already on a downtrend before the ATP rule was introduced. Compare accident rates and newhire experience 1990-2000 to 2000-2010. It was pretty much impossible to get an airline job with less than several thousand TT in the 1990s. Experience was higher, yet accident rates were also higher in the 1990s. Correlation doesn't equal causation. You need to do your homework before making a big claim like that.

Someone with 1500 hours will likely be a better pilot than someone with 250 hours. That is to be expected. But there are many more variables at play. Hiring everyone from a smaller pool versus hiring the best pilots from a larger pool is going to give a different result than just giving the same people more hours.
 
Last edited:
Groundpounder said:
What routes has United cut?
Click to expand...
EWR-ALB, EWR-MHT, and EWR-PVD effective 3/29. Yes, these are regional routes.
LAX-YYZ was planned to start but has now been eliminated.
They're mostly cutting early/late flights but not eliminating routes.
 
“It’s not what you know, it’s who you know?” at one time that was the only way to get in front of the line, not sure it counts now.
 
brien23 said:
“It’s not what you know, it’s who you know?” at one time that was the only way to get in front of the line, not sure it counts now.
Click to expand...
It absolutely counts. It may still be the single most important thing to get hired.
 
flyingcheesehead said:
EWR-ALB, EWR-MHT, and EWR-PVD effective 3/29. Yes, these are regional routes.
LAX-YYZ was planned to start but has now been eliminated.
They're mostly cutting early/late flights but not eliminating routes.
Click to expand...

I can’t speak for the others, but MHT to EWR was changed to MHT-IAD because of the runway closure in EWR. Same number of flights per day.

United is not cutting any routes, just reducing domestic expansion by 4% in Q3.
 
flyingcheesehead said:
It absolutely counts. It may still be the single most important thing to get hired.
Click to expand...
It wasn't in my case - at least at one airline. A buddy of mine took me to see his chief pilot at United, we spent an hour or so talking. He said he would put me on the top of his list, ya-da, ya-da. Meanwhile I only had a handful of internal recs (no chief pilot meetings) at Delta and got the call first from them. The day I was walking through the ATL airport to go to my interview, United called. I called the chief pilot at United that I had met with and he was obviously saddened (not because they missed out on this subpar pilot - but because it took so long to get people on "his list" to the call-list). I honestly haven't seen a correlation between knowing someone (other than if one of your parents was a pilot there) and getting the call. Many/most of the recs I've written have gotten a call, but some absolute rockstars never even got the invite to interview. Sometimes it seems no rhyme or reason.
 
EvilEagle said:
It wasn't in my case - at least at one airline. A buddy of mine took me to see his chief pilot at United, we spent an hour or so talking. He said he would put me on the top of his list, ya-da, ya-da. Meanwhile I only had a handful of internal recs (no chief pilot meetings) at Delta and got the call first from them. The day I was walking through the ATL airport to go to my interview, United called. I called the chief pilot at United that I had met with and he was obviously saddened (not because they missed out on this subpar pilot - but because it took so long to get people on "his list" to the call-list). I honestly haven't seen a correlation between knowing someone (other than if one of your parents was a pilot there) and getting the call. Many/most of the recs I've written have gotten a call, but some absolute rockstars never even got the invite to interview. Sometimes it seems no rhyme or reason.
Click to expand...
BLUF: "It depends."

FWIW, same story for me, Evil. The couple of airlines I was up-to-my-ears in recommendations with offered me interviews months later than the one that I had *zero* internal recs with...the place I accepted the job offer with.

All that being said, networking is still an extremely powerful component of the path to a seniority number at a 121 airline.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top