Airframe icing today

WannFly

WannFly

Final Approach
Joined
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KLZU
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Priyo
So not really sure when this happened... hear me out.

its an unusual day for ND - calm wind, unlimited vis. so i cut out early to fly around. when i took off, ATIS reported -1 temp -7 dew point. flew for 1.6, amazing sunset. checked ATIS before coming in, not much change. landed right at end of civil twilight. stopped at the FBO for 10 mins, then taxi-ed back to the hanger, where i saw ice all over the air frame ( i do a walk around after flight). its may be 1/10th of an inch, sticking to the airframe. little brushing with a micro-fibre didnt take it off. didnt notice any ice during flight, there was no visual moisture anywhere, the handling was normal. shud have checked the dewpoint spread when i found the ice, but didnt occur to me at that time. i dont know when this happened, if its happened during my laps in the pattern or not right before landing - i didnt notice it in the air. it was getting dark and i dont think i could have seen this even if i wanted to.

questions is... how on earth does this happen without visible moisture? and how dangerous is this? i guess any bit of ice will disrupt the flow of air... gotto wipe the whole thing down before i fly. OR am i being drama queen?

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What was the OAT at the altitude you were flying?
Might have been a combination of a cold airframe after the flight and the temp/dew point spread narrowing as the sun went down.
 
Looks a little frosty there. Yeah you should remove it before flying. Seems if you picked it up in the air it'd be built up more on the leading edge. But the way it's spread out over the entire wing looks like frost. Right after you flew you say?
 
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GRG55 said:
What was the OAT at the altitude you were flying?
Might have been a combination of a cold airframe after the flight and the temp/dew point spread narrowing as the sun went down.
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2 C at 3500, on ground -1 C.


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mscard88 said:
Looks a little frosty there. Yeah you should remove it before flying. Seems if you picked it up in the air it'd be built up more on the leading edge. But the way it's spread out over the entire wing looks like frost. Right after you flew you say?
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Makes sense. I noticed it about 10 mins after landing. Wiping that whole thing down in a un heated hangar is not fun


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WannFly said:
2 C at 3500, on ground -1 C.


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I bet the fuel tanks did not have frost. I've seen the opposite where the fuel tanks had condensation on them after a flight with rather cold temperatures aloft.
 
Wed. evening we had an IMC club meeting about icing. Scientist from NASA talked about it. The thing that struck me most was the map of potential icing across the US. It was like a bullseye right over my home. The number of icing related accidents, also wildly elevated here, more than Alaska.

Maybe I should rethink this IFR thing. The OP should definitely get that off before he flies that nice airplane again.
 
You definitely need to wipe it down before you fly again. Don’t takeoff with any contamination. It will end badly.
 
I was flying around the same time up here near GFK last night and same thing happened. Frost buildup has been fast after early morning and evening flights. Our de-frost trucks have been busy.
 
You got frost after landing. Getting it off before your next flight, always a good idea.
 
Clark1961 said:
I bet the fuel tanks did not have frost. I've seen the opposite where the fuel tanks had condensation on them after a flight with rather cold temperatures aloft.
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No it did not. I have seen a little frost on the fuel tank before too and nowhere else, this is the first time I have seen so much frost all over the place


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Thanks all. Heading to the hangar in a couple of hrs to get that thing cleaned. Does automotive glycol work? I have read somewhere that the automotive glycol doesn’t have what FAA calls a separation point or something to that effect. Or does it have to be aviation specific deicer ? I will ensure no glycol is left behind.


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oregonboy109 said:
I was flying around the same time up here near GFK last night and same thing happened. Frost buildup has been fast after early morning and evening flights. Our de-frost trucks have been busy.
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Yah I have to rethink sunset flights for now. If I landed somewhere else for a quick stop, would have been stuck in a podunk airport until I can clean it.


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Looks like post flight/sunset frost to me considering the time of year and the mild melting days we've had this past week.
 
A. That is known as panel frost. It's because you got a way cooler plane now than before the panel upgrade.
B. Fatal Frost would be a great name for a band.
C. You better never quit takin Kate on sunset flights!
 
Well thankfully the frost melted before I reached my hangar, and since I was already there... took another sunset flight. . Next several days supposed to suck, so I got my fix beforehand


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I was unsure how to answer so I will leave it to you to pick one.
  1. If you take a girl out without pants, she's likely to get a bit frosty.
  2. Put some pants on that poor girl! No wonder she's so cold.
  3. I see that you got Kate's pants off, can't you warm her up?
  4. So is Kate always so frigid?
 
SkyDog58 said:
I was unsure how to answer so I will leave it to you to pick one.
  1. If you take a girl out without pants, she's likely to get a bit frosty.
  2. Put some pants on that poor girl! No wonder she's so cold.
  3. I see that you got Kate's pants off, can't you warm her up?
  4. So is Kate always so frigid?
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Lol.


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Frost. Temperature and dew point moved closer together right after the sun set plus humidity provided the moisture. Then when you stopped moving the moisture in the air attached itself to the wing then froze.

Takes a while for the ATIS to be updated.

In the olden days we used to put on a rough leather work glove and polish the frost. Not sure for Pt 91, but everyone else has to remove the frost before flying.
 
Zeldman said:
Frost. Temperature and dew point moved closer together right after the sun set plus humidity provided the moisture. Then when you stopped moving the moisture in the air attached itself to the wing then froze.

Takes a while for the ATIS to be updated.

In the olden days we used to put on a rough leather work glove and polish the frost. Not sure for Pt 91, but everyone else has to remove the frost before flying.
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Don’t care about reg, I ain’t flying without cleaning that shet. All the more important to do a complete preflight if I land somewhere for just a 10 min stop. I put a bottle of glycol in the plane after this just in case


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WannFly said:
Don’t care about reg, I ain’t flying without cleaning that shet. All the more important to do a complete preflight if I land somewhere for just a 10 min stop. I put a bottle of glycol in the plane after this just in case


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Click to expand...

Just bring a long cord and hair dryer! That way you can do the wings, and style your hair after.

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Zeldman said:
Frost. Temperature and dew point moved closer together right after the sun set plus humidity provided the moisture. Then when you stopped moving the moisture in the air attached itself to the wing then froze.

Takes a while for the ATIS to be updated.

In the olden days we used to put on a rough leather work glove and polish the frost. Not sure for Pt 91, but everyone else has to remove the frost before flying.
Click to expand...
That was taught when I started flying as well. Not so much anymore from what I see. It’s more about getting a clean wing now.
 
mscard88 said:
Just bring a long cord and hair dryer! That way you can do the wings, and style your hair after.

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Make sure you get the angle of attack right with that dryer, you don't want your head going into a stall.
If you feel buffeting, remember to push your nose forward.
 
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Yep, frost. Often direct condensation from the air in very cold conditions. I had that happen a couple of times on $100 pizza runs to 3DA in Michigan when the OAT was below -10C. Typically I landed when it was still late afternoon, returned to the plane after dark when the temp had dropped sharply. Scrambled to wipe it off as best I could before taking off for home, but don't think I ever got it all, just the worst of it on the leading edges. Never noticed any difference in flight characteristics, but I'm sure there was some.

Add that to my list of reasons why I don't like to fly when it's very cold out...
 
azure said:
Yep, frost. Often direct condensation from the air in very cold conditions. I had that happen a couple of times on $100 pizza runs to 3DA in Michigan when the OAT was below -10C. Typically I landed when it was still late afternoon, returned to the plane after dark when the temp had dropped sharply. Scrambled to wipe it off as best I could before taking off for home, but don't think I ever got it all, just the worst of it on the leading edges. Never noticed any difference in flight characteristics, but I'm sure there was some.

Add that to my list of reasons why I don't like to fly when it's very cold out...
Click to expand...

This was a big eye opener for me. Something I never expected and never really thought about. Adding to laundry list of except the unexpected


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Zeldman said:
In the olden days we used to put on a rough leather work glove and polish the frost. Not sure for Pt 91, but everyone else has to remove the frost before flying
Click to expand...
I use a horse hair brush with a 5ft handle (pole) to whisk the frost away..:)
 
Zeldman said:
Frost. Temperature and dew point moved closer together right after the sun set plus humidity provided the moisture. Then when you stopped moving the moisture in the air attached itself to the wing then froze.

Takes a while for the ATIS to be updated.

In the olden days we used to put on a rough leather work glove and polish the frost. Not sure for Pt 91, but everyone else has to remove the frost before flying.
Click to expand...

The FAA used recommend polishing Frost smooth in the old days. Those days are over.
 
Kritchlow said:
No longer recommend it... but what does that really mean?
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That means if select that response on a FAA written knowledge test you you answered wrong and if you use that procedure on the wrong aircraft you might end up dead.
 
Clip4 said:
That means if select that response on a FAA written knowledge test you you answered wrong and if you use that procedure on the wrong aircraft you might end up dead.
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But just because it’s no longer “recommended”..??
I’m a fan of proper deicing, but for a bit of front on a light airplane polishing seems okay. Not to be confused with ice.
 
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