Aircraft Paint Types

JohnAJohnson

JohnAJohnson

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JohnAJohnson
I'll be having my aircraft painted soon and really like the looks of metallic paint. The paint shop at the local airport says no problem, but it must have a clear coat over it. Claims the metallic won't lay down smoothly, making the top clear coat necessary.

I really liked the way my old aircraft's Sherwin Williams Jet Glo Matterhorn White (base coat only) was easy to clean, didn't get buggered up when I spilled AV Gas on it, or didn't balk when I wiped the leading edges after a flight with Pledge. It still looked great when I sold it, even at 25 years old.

How would a metallic/clear coat hold up, compared to something like Jet Glo? Any downsides to metallic paint?
 
JohnAJohnson said:
I'll be having my aircraft painted soon and really like the looks of metallic paint. The paint shop at the local airport says no problem, but it must have a clear coat over it. Claims the metallic won't lay down smoothly, making the top clear coat necessary.

I really liked the way my old aircraft's Sherwin Williams Jet Glo Matterhorn White (base coat only) was easy to clean, didn't get buggered up when I spilled AV Gas on it, or didn't balk when I wiped the leading edges after a flight with Pledge. It still looked great when I sold it, even at 25 years old.

How would a metallic/clear coat hold up, compared to something like Jet Glo? Any downsides to metallic paint?
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That paint shop doesn't know how to paint.

Two part urethane metal flake laid down very nice
 

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The common way to do metallics today is base/clear. Why? Because with a single stage metallic, if you get runs, drips, or sags, you cannot sand/polish them out without making that area of the metalflake look different than the surrounding areas.

So they use base/clear. The basecoat in a base/clear system is very easy to spray and requires relatively thin coats, so a run, drip, or sag is unlikely. Then they spray a heavier clear coat (or two-three coats, more likely), which *could* run or sag. But they can sand/polish out any imperfections in the clear and the repairs will not be noticeable.
 
The new era two part urethanes do not need a clear coat. They will polish very nicely.

You remove runs with a paint file, not sand paper. file them off level, and polish with a good glazing compound, you'll never see it.
 
Every coat of paint adds weight and cuts into your useful load. That's my only beef with clear coat systems.
 
GRG55 said:
Every coat of paint adds weight and cuts into your useful load. That's my only beef with clear coat systems.
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Quite true, one of the heaviest paint we have used was the old Dupont Imron, but it was the best. except it would kill ya.
 
If you have any antennas under the painted surface, I am advised the metalflake paint may degrade the signal. May not be a factor for your application; certainly would be for some of us.
 
Yea, I thought about painting the antennas in a non metallic color that was close to the metallic, but that might knock them out of tune too. I've decided, ugly as it might be, to just leave them as they come from the factory, white.

FORANE said:
If you have any antennas under the painted surface, I am advised the metalflake paint may degrade the signal. May not be a factor for your application; certainly would be for some of us.
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The other consideration is repair/touchup. I would think that it's a lot easier to spot paint an area that has a single base coat as opposed to a base/clear.
 
How does the clear coat hold up, compared to something like Jet Glo?

kyleb said:
The common way to do metallics today is base/clear. Why? Because with a single stage metallic, if you get runs, drips, or sags, you cannot sand/polish them out without making that area of the metalflake look different than the surrounding areas.

So they use base/clear. The basecoat in a base/clear system is very easy to spray and requires relatively thin coats, so a run, drip, or sag is unlikely. Then they spray a heavier clear coat (or two-three coats, more likely), which *could* run or sag. But they can sand/polish out any imperfections in the clear and the repairs will not be noticeable.
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I considered a plane that had clear coat peeling/worn through, and the seller said it was fairly easy to retouch the clear coat. Is that true?


donjohnston said:
The other consideration is repair/touchup. I would think that it's a lot easier to spot paint an area that has a single base coat as opposed to a base/clear.
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donjohnston said:
The other consideration is repair/touchup. I would think that it's a lot easier to spot paint an area that has a single base coat as opposed to a base/clear.
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Yep. Metallics are notoriously difficult to make blended repairs.

In my opinion, that is the only real concern for the OP if he wants metallic paint on his airplane.
 
JohnAJohnson said:
How does the clear coat hold up, compared to something like Jet Glo?
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Properly done, a high quality base/clear paint should hold up just as well as a single stage like Jet Glow. Probably something to think about - make sure the shop will be using a high end base/clear system (just as Jet Glow is a high end single stage).

Look at cars. Over last 30 years or more, the OEM market has moved to base/clear systems. During the transition, as the OEM's and paint manufacturers were learning, you'd see cars with sheets of clear peeling off. I just don't see that any more - base/clear is a well understood process these days.
 
kyleb said:
Properly done, a high quality base/clear paint should hold up just as well as a single stage like Jet Glow. Probably something to think about - make sure the shop will be using a high end base/clear system (just as Jet Glow is a high end single stage).

Look at cars. Over last 30 years or more, the OEM market has moved to base/clear systems. During the transition, as the OEM's and paint manufacturers were learning, you'd see cars with sheets of clear peeling off. I just don't see that any more - base/clear is a well understood process these days.
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one big problem with clear coat systems, you can't polish because of the rivets.
 
Tom-D said:
one big problem with clear coat systems, you can't polish because of the rivets.
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Button head rivets are a bear to polish around, single stage, base/clear, whatever. You've gotta be crazy careful to do anything but hand sanding/polishing around them. Flush rivets make it much easier.

But, if you sand through the clear on base/clear, you're screwed. Same as if you sand through the color coat on single stage.
 
kyleb said:
Button head rivets are a bear to polish around, single stage, base/clear, whatever. You've gotta be crazy careful to do anything but hand sanding/polishing around them. Flush rivets make it much easier.

But, if you sand through the clear on base/clear, you're screwed. Same as if you sand through the color coat on single stage.
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I've seen way too many 5-7 year old clear coat systems that are peeling and look like crap.
 
Tom-D said:
I've seen way too many 5-7 year old clear coat systems that are peeling and look like crap.
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I suspect the chemistry is pretty good now. The quality of any given job probably comes down to the care in preparation and application. Screw that up with any paint system and the result is likely to be poor over time.

I have a 20+ year old Jet Glo re-paint on my Aztec and I am really impressed at how well that paint is holding up. It doesn't have the gloss of an Imron show plane (maybe it did when it was new?) but it sure is durable.
 
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JohnAJohnson said:
I'll be having my aircraft painted soon and really like the looks of metallic paint. The paint shop at the local airport says no problem, but it must have a clear coat over it. Claims the metallic won't lay down smoothly, making the top clear coat necessary.

I really liked the way my old aircraft's Sherwin Williams Jet Glo Matterhorn White (base coat only) was easy to clean, didn't get buggered up when I spilled AV Gas on it, or didn't balk when I wiped the leading edges after a flight with Pledge. It still looked great when I sold it, even at 25 years old.

How would a metallic/clear coat hold up, compared to something like Jet Glo? Any downsides to metallic paint?
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Jet Glow is Sherwin's answer to Dupont's Imron.....same.
 
GRG55 said:
Don't laugh. Had a friend who built a wood and fabric E-AB in the late '70s and did his finish color coats with latex and a roller. Turned out remarkably well.
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Lots of E-AB’s, metal and fabric, use regular latex house paint. Couple of forums at Oshkosh this year on techniques. Somebody needs to gin up an STC for certified aircraft:cool:

Cheers
 
Rustoleum must have stolen the formula for Sherwin Williams Jet Glo Matterhorn White. Their gloss white is a perfect match.
 
I have used Dupont Centari acrylic enamel in the past. It seems to hold up well, but after 10 years being parked outside it has lost it's shine.
 
AKBill said:
I have used Dupont Centari acrylic enamel in the past. It seems to hold up well, but after 10 years being parked outside it has lost it's shine.
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My wife sez I've "lost my shine" too. And she keeps me mostly indoors. ;)
 
Timbeck2 said:
Rustoleum must have stolen the formula for Sherwin Williams Jet Glo Matterhorn White. Their gloss white is a perfect match.
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Years ago some secret committee of airplane manufacturer accounting types must have decided Matterhorn White was the paint color they were all going to use to beat up the OEM suppliers for volume discounts.

My Aztec base coat is light grey, and I feel like a colored minority at every fly-in I attend.
 
X3 Skier said:
Somebody needs to gin up an STC for certified aircraft:cool:

Cheers
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there is no requirement to use a certain paint. there are rules for all painting of aircraft. but no need for a STC.
 
I painted Brien23's SeeBee way back in the 90s with DEFF 4 part waterborne urethane, damn thing looks as good today as it did when I painted it. I salvaged it from the NAVY's surplus sales Turned out "Light Gull Grey"
 
Matterhorn base with metallic stripes or the whole plane in metallic?
 
ktup-flyer said:
Matterhorn base with metallic stripes or the whole plane in metallic?
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I'm thinking I'd like the whole plane in Metallic.

The scheme would be similar to this, but with grey on the bottom and silver on the top, with one or two contrasting stripes through either the top or bottom, or both:
Cessna%20Cardinal%20177%20RG.jpg


The top would be a shiny metallic silver, like this:
13U Sebring Silver Metallic.jpg


And the bottom half would be a metallic gray:
88U Medium Spiral Gray Metallic.jpg
 
Tom-D said:
there is no requirement to use a certain paint. there are rules for all painting of aircraft. but no need for a STC.
Click to expand...

I believe if I read the AMT Manual correctly, fabric certified aircraft only allow specific approved paint as part of the STC for Ceconite and Polyfiber, but metal is a different situation.

From the FAA AMT Manual Ch 8

“Polyester fabric coverings now dominate in the aviation industry. These new fabrics have been specifically developed for aircraft and are far superior to cotton and linen. The protective coating and topcoat finishes used with the Ceconite® polyester fabric covering materials are part of a Supplemental Type Certificate (STC) and must be used as specified when covering any aircraft with a Standard Airworthiness Certificate. The Ceconite® covering procedures use specific brand name, nontautening nitrate and butyrate dope as part of the STC.

The Poly-Fiber® system also uses a special polyester fabric covering as part of its STC, but it does not use dope. All the liquid products in the Poly-Fiber® system are made from vinyl, not from cellulose dope. The vinyl coatings have several real advantages over dope: they remain flexible, they do not shrink, they do not support combustion, and they are easily removed from the fabric with MEK, which simplifies most repairs.”

Cheers
 
X3 Skier said:
I believe if I read the AMT Manual correctly, fabric certified aircraft only allow specific approved paint as part of the STC for Ceconite and Polyfiber, but metal is a different situation.

From the FAA AMT Manual Ch 8

“Polyester fabric coverings now dominate in the aviation industry. These new fabrics have been specifically developed for aircraft and are far superior to cotton and linen. The protective coating and topcoat finishes used with the Ceconite® polyester fabric covering materials are part of a Supplemental Type Certificate (STC) and must be used as specified when covering any aircraft with a Standard Airworthiness Certificate. The Ceconite® covering procedures use specific brand name, nontautening nitrate and butyrate dope as part of the STC.

The Poly-Fiber® system also uses a special polyester fabric covering as part of its STC, but it does not use dope. All the liquid products in the Poly-Fiber® system are made from vinyl, not from cellulose dope. The vinyl coatings have several real advantages over dope: they remain flexible, they do not shrink, they do not support combustion, and they are easily removed from the fabric with MEK, which simplifies most repairs.”

Cheers
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Fabric covering systems are a total different subject than regular ol painting.
When you change from the manufacturer's fabric process, it is a major modification, requiring a Field approval or an STC, when installing any STC you must follow the STC insructions.
You can request a deviation to the STC instructions to use another paint. that is done on a 337 form requesting to change the STC instructions.

But when it comes down to the real world of paint, you tell me how you would tell one urethane paint from any other urethane paint, with out the label on the can.
 
X3 Skier said:
I believe if I read the AMT Manual correctly, fabric certified aircraft only allow specific approved paint as part of the STC for Ceconite and Polyfiber, but metal is a different situation.
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You read the manual correctly, but it is only partially correct.
The paint isn't approved, the SYSTEM is, that's all chemicals involved in finishing the fabric, even the glue, the lacing tape, the attaching hardware.
It's all about the engineering to gain approval of the STC.
 
http://www.airtechcoatings.com
The best system on the market, in terms of time to apply, ease to apply, shine and weight.
The Glue is the easiest to use, 1 quart of the base gives 1 gallon of ready to use glue.
The Primer goes on 3 wet coats with a spray gun.
you sand once, and apply top coat. When the fabric is applied and ready to finish, 4 hours yer done.
 
kyleb said:
Look at cars. Over last 30 years or more, the OEM market has moved to base/clear systems. During the transition, as the OEM's and paint manufacturers were learning, you'd see cars with sheets of clear peeling off. I just don't see that any more - base/clear is a well understood process these days.
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It's easy to guess the age of cars manufactured around 1992-1994, especially silver ones. A lot of those owners experienced the fading and peeling just outside the warranty period, leaving them with an ugly and devalued vehicle.

That being said, the OP shouldn't be leery of a base-clear system. A lot of R&D has gone into paint systems in recent years, and with proper prep work, a good looking durable result is assured.
 
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