Air Wagner..... He’s baaaaackk.

EdFred said:
Does your aunt post her exploits on youtube for an ego boost?
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She doesn't. Does that make her safer or less safe?

She probably would if she knew what YT was. Please, don't tell her. I don't want to get in this all over again on GeriatricDriversofAmerica.com
 
LesGawlik said:
She doesn't. Does that make her safer or less safe?

She probably would if she knew what YT was. Please, don't tell her. I don't want to get in this all over again on GeriatricDriversofAmerica.com
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Makes her neither more, nor less safe. But it also isn't giving her a platform to incorrectly reinforce the exact opposite of what kind of driver she is. Nor does it provide an avenue for people who see her driving, not realize it's complete crap and think, oh, that's how it is supposed to be done.

It's like someone putting out a gun safety video that does EVERYTHING wrong, and people who know nothing about guns saying "yeah, that's the proper way to do it, awesome video, keep em coming." And all through the video they are pointing a loaded gun at someone, not making sure it's clear behind what they are shooting at, and generally doing everything you shouldn't be doing.

Someone is going to get hurt doing what Jerry is doing.
 
Which is, perhaps, why he says his videos are for entertainment. He doesn't say he's the successor to Gentleman Bob, or that the viewer should copy his every practice. He's a guy with a really nice and well-equipped twin which I would desperately love to own. It's a lotta airplane and I wonder if I would get behind it from time to time.
 
LesGawlik said:
Which is, perhaps, why he says his videos are for entertainment. He doesn't say he's the successor to Gentleman Bob, or that the viewer should copy his every practice. He's a guy with a really nice and well-equipped twin which I would desperately love to own. It's a lotta airplane and I wonder if I would get behind it from time to time.
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Then he should also say "yeah, don't do this" or instead of only replying to the ass kissers in the comments, make it known that he screwed the pooch....again. He's either too dumb, or too conceited to realize it.
 
I don't see where he ever said that he is offering these videos for instruction. I have ever heard of anyone in an aircraft saying "let's fly the ILS like Jerry. That's cool!". Honestly, I don't think there's much risk of that.

So, the real complaint is that he's not contrite enough about his faults.
 
LesGawlik said:
I don't see where he ever said that he is offering these videos for instruction. I have ever heard of anyone in an aircraft saying "let's fly the ILS like Jerry. That's cool!". Honestly, I don't think there's much risk of that.

So, the real complaint is that he's not contrite enough about his faults.
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You obviously didnt read through the comments and his replies. There were definitely comments that said yeah that's the way you do it and he would reply with thank you, while dismissing the ones that pointed out he needs to get with a CFII.
 
EdFred said:
You obviously didnt read through the comments and his replies. There were definitely comments that said yeah that's the way you do it and he would reply with thank you, while dismissing the ones that pointed out he needs to get with a CFII.
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I watch him on my TV app which doesn't show comments. Are the people providing the comments pilots? Is there a reasonable likelihood that people are using his videos for ADM or instruction? If so, what is the evidence?
 
LesGawlik said:
Is there any evidence that his videos have been the basis of ADM or flight operations?
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With the removal of the content from his channel that evidence is no longer publicly available.
 
LesGawlik said:
So, no.
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Point of contention: There's a difference between publicly available evidence, and evidence. So yes, there is evidence, and Jerry is hiding it. If he makes his videos available for public viewing again, the evidence will be publicly available.

BTW, this isn't a criminal trial, just in case you were confused on the difference between a courtroom and an internet forum.
 
LesGawlik said:
So, no.
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so, no, that is until every person who is influenced by jerry's antics films videos doing those antics then posts them to youtube. until then we can only hope the people who comment about how great he is aren't going out and doing what he does.
 
LesGawlik said:
So, no.
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I notice you never answered this one
midlifeflyer said:
If you think this is an "acceptable job" for breaking out of the clouds on an ILS, I guess that's your opinion. If it were followed by "wow! I really screwed that one up. Here's what I need to do differently," rather than repeating the actions which produced it and teaching those actions to a new pilot, I'd probably agree with you.

View attachment 93204
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eman1200 said:
so, no, that is until every person who is influenced by jerry's antics films videos doing those antics then posts them to youtube. until then we can only hope the people who comment about how great he is aren't going out and doing what he does.
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Is there any evidence this has happened?
 
EdFred said:
BTW, this isn't a criminal trial, just in case you were confused on the difference between a courtroom and an internet forum.
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You have so little confidence in your position that you can only support it through ad hominen attacks.
 
LesGawlik said:
Is there any evidence this has happened?
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evidence that WHAT happened? that every single person didn't post doing stupid stuff they learned from jerry? the only evidence we DO have is, or was, all of his videos where he clearly does stupid/dangerous stuff, and the comments from people who say "you're the greatest pilot ever". really your "arguments" are boring me. it's great you stick up for him, good for you.
 
LesGawlik said:
Is there any evidence this has happened?
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this thread is getting hilarious... people actually take positions other than -

This guy's ADM is terrible, risk management is worse than questionable (the one where he decides to descend to 'secondary minimums :rofl:), pretty sure I have seen some pretty clear flying from VMC to IMC under VFR.... poor airmanship (lol if I pegged my VSI to -3000' with a passenger... holy eardrum pain).... I dunno.

The guy's videos always made me chuckle but certainly should not be viewed by young, impressionable pilots or want-to-be pilots who may think what this guys puts up on the interwebs is the way to fly.
 
eman1200 said:
evidence that WHAT happened? that every single person didn't post doing stupid stuff they learned from jerry? the only evidence we DO have is, or was, all of his videos where he clearly does stupid/dangerous stuff, and the comments from people who say "you're the greatest pilot ever". really your "arguments" are boring me. it's great you stick up for him, good for you.
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haha you wrote and posted this at almost exactly the same time I did.....

Maybe one of the posters here iiiiiiiissss Jerry Wagner......
 
LesGawlik said:
You have so little confidence in your position that you can only support it through ad hominen attacks.
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You use that word. I do not think it means what you think it means And I specifically addressed your point - which you conveniently ignored.
 
LesGawlik said:
I'm sorry, I don't see the problem. We have a lot of 20,000 hr pilots here who say his flying is lousy and dangerous. He is not a 20,000 hour professional pilot. If Jerry were as good as all the 20,000 hour pilots here, that would mean flying is trivially easy, or he's a savant.
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Nobody’s expecting him to fly like a 20,000 hour professional pilot. The expectation is that he will not consistently fly significantly below the level of his certificate and be apparently proud of that fact.
 
EdFred said:
You use that word. I do not think it means what you think it means And I specifically addressed your point - which you conveniently ignored.
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"Marked by or being an attack on an opponent's character rather than by an answer to the contentions made". I think you're the one who doesn't know....
 
LesGawlik said:
I'm sorry, I don't see the problem. We have a lot of 20,000 hr pilots here who say his flying is lousy and dangerous. He is not a 20,000 hour professional pilot. If Jerry were as good as all the 20,000 hour pilots here, that would mean flying is trivially easy, or he's a savant.

My golf swing is not that of Tiger Woods. And yet I play. Don't like that comparison because golf is not done in the NAS? Okay, my aunt's parallel parking sucks. A CDL instructor or professional trucker would blanch at Blanche. And yet, she makes it to and from the hair salon without nicking a fender or drawing blood. Based on risk and exposure, my aunt imperils many more people than Jerry.
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His flying does not meet the ACS standards while lots of pilots with fewer hours than him do. This argument that he shouldn't be expected to fly like a 20,000 hour pilot is a straw man and a red herring.
 
dmspilot said:
His flying does not meet the ACS standards while lots of pilots with fewer hours than him do. This argument that he shouldn't be expected to fly like a 20,000 hour pilot is a straw man and a red herring.
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Let him who has never busted ACS standards cast the first Brasher.
 
LesGawlik said:
Let him who has never busted ACS standards cast the first Brasher.
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Occasionally is a far cry from consistently.

Being proud of the fact is another major factor. The follow up, “go and sin no more,” has been ignored.
 
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LesGawlik said:
Let him who has never busted ACS standards cast the first Brasher.
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Another straw man. I didn't compare him to someone who never exceeded standards. I said his flying exceeds them, meaning consistently, in general, to a large degree.
 
LesGawlik said:
"Marked by or being an attack on an opponent's character rather than by an answer to the contentions made". I think you're the one who doesn't know....
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I stand by my previous statement, I said nothing about your character, I simply pointed out that this isn't a trial and you appear to be treating it as such. Also, I specifically addressed your point so on both halves of the definition, you used it incorrectly. 1 - it wasn't an attack on your character, and 2 -I did answer to the contentions made.

It appears that you are now the one that has so little confidence in their position that you are deflecting the argument.

MauleSkinner said:
Occasionally is a far cry from consistently.

Being proud of the fact is another major factor.
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And also not doing ANYTHING to improve, or curtail the repeated demonstrated, substandard flying. Had he been making an attempt to do so, his videos would have shown improvement. They didn't.
 
EdFred said:
I stand by my previous statement, I said nothing about your character, I simply pointed out that this isn't a trial and you appear to be treating it as such. Also, I specifically addressed your point so on both halves of the definition, you used it incorrectly. 1 - it wasn't an attack on your character, and 2 -I did answer to the contentions made.

It was a It appears that you are now the one that has so little confidence in their position that you are deflecting the argument.



And also not doing ANYTHING to improve, or curtail the repeated demonstrated, substandard flying. Had he been making an attempt to do so, his videos would have shown improvement. They didn't.
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Your statement about me had nothing to do with Jerry''s flying. There is no amount of explanation for you.
 
LesGawlik said:
Your statement about me had nothing to do with Jerry''s flying. There is no amount of explanation for you.
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Neither did yours. You went off in the weeds about evidence, which was the point I addressed

Try and keep up. I'll requote and make it big and bold since you either ignored it, or didn't see it.:

LesGawlik said:
So, no.
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EdFred said:
Point of contention: There's a difference between publicly available evidence, and evidence. So yes, there is evidence, and Jerry is hiding it. If he makes his videos available for public viewing again, the evidence will be publicly available.

BTW, this isn't a criminal trial, just in case you were confused on the difference between a courtroom and an internet forum.
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This specifically addressed your point about evidence, and since you went off the rails, that is where I pointed out this isn't a trial, which is what you demonstrated as believing it to be by the way you turned the thread.
 
EdFred said:
You use that word. I do not think it means what you think it means And I specifically addressed your point - which you conveniently ignored.
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Actually, I do have to agree with @LesGawlik on this specific point. By including the words "just in case you were confused" that does technically qualify as an attack on the speaker, because of the assertion about the speaker's state of mind. The main point could be rephrased to avoid that fallacy, such as "the standards of evidence are different for a criminal trial and an internet forum" or something like that.

In my experience, many of the figures of speech that one might use in casual conversation without causing offense, such as including "you think", can easily be interpreted as not being kind on internet forums. Probably often not much offense intended, but it can come across offensively.
 
Les, what you are missing is that people aren't that concerned about what Jerry might do to someone else. Most of us are genuinely concerned about what he will do to himself if he keeps up this kind of flying. And frankly, he makes pilots in general look bad.
 
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As to Air Wagner, I tend to agree with those who think he consistently demonstrates substandard flying and does not appear to get the point or be amenable to feedback about it. Another poster above noted that he likely received too much attention early on for some of his unsafe antics. And that can then become the driver for further videos of the same questionable airmanship.
 
There's a great opportunity for those of you who feel so strongly about Jerry to make your own videos and post them for public critique.
 
LesGawlik said:
There's a great opportunity for those of you who feel so strongly about Jerry to make your own videos and post them for public critique.
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You must have a phD in straw man arguments.
 
LesGawlik said:
There's a great opportunity for those of you who feel so strongly about Jerry to make your own videos and post them for public critique.
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Maybe some of us don't want to take responsibility for other pilots or pilots-to-be copying our bad habits. Not speaking for myself, of course. My flying is perfect. Every approach is flown with robotic-like accuracy. Every landing greasier than a NY pizza. My airmanship is worthy of being feature in a John and Martha King video on how-to-fly-with-absolute-perfection-and-precision.

I uh.... I just don't have the equipment... yeah. that's the ticket... and I don't have a YouTube account..... yeah yeah... that's it....
 
LesGawlik said:
You have so little confidence in your position that you can only support it through ad hominen attacks.
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Man, if you’re going to mega-troll Ed with ancient phrases like that one, at least learn how to spell them. LOL.
 
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