"Air marshal kicked off plane by furious pilot after bursting into the cockpit"

ElPaso Pilot

ElPaso Pilot

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ElPaso Pilot
More frolicking fun from our security professionals at DHS / TSA. :rolleyes:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/travel/t...plain-flight-attendant-spilled-drink-him.html
An air marshal was told to leave a plane prior to take-off after he allegedly burst into the cockpit and complained to the pilot that a flight attendant had spilled a drink on him and then laughed in his face.

David Maldonado was ordered off the aircraft by the furious captain after the armed guard said that he was going to lodge a formal complaint about his treatment.

This threat incensed the pilot, who allegedly shouted 'I didn't serve 21 f*****g years in the military getting shot at so that you can threaten me with a f*****g phone call.'

'Who the f*** do you think you are, threatening me with a phone call?' he continued, pulling out a military ID and shoving it into Maldonado's face, according to court papers filed in Brooklyn.

...

He claims he was demoted because of the incident and his bosses used it against him claiming he had anger management issues and needed counseling.

Maldonado says the whole experience was the 'most humiliating of his 21-year law enforcement career'.
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He also claims prior TSA discrimination -- says he was treated more harshly for drinking on the job than his colleagues were. :rolleyes::rolleyes:
 
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Surprised this didn't make the news when it actually happened - in 2012!
 
Sounds just like the level-headed kind of guy with a gun I'd want next to me on an airplane.

:mad2:
 
Do Air marshals need biweekly psych evals? Think about how crazy you'd be if rode on airlines that much. If a pilot can drive an airline into a mountain there isn't anything stopping these guys.
 
teejayevans said:
An air marshall with a gun, a drinking problem, and anger management issues...what possibly could go wrong
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Well, there is the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms...

If he smokes he could get the trifecta...

:D
 
Am I the only one thinking maybe the FA did this just a little bit - on purpose? Of course the FA knows who the marshal is, and he might have a reputation across the industry.

Where's my tin foil hat again?
 
Thank god no one spilled a drink on this idiot doing the final few hundred feet of a ILS.

....so it's the "terrorists" who are a threat again, right?
 
docmirror said:
Am I the only one thinking maybe the FA did this just a little bit - on purpose? Of course the FA knows who the marshal is, and he might have a reputation across the industry.

Where's my tin foil hat again?
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I'm with you on this one. There might have even been some flirting misread by the FA, who then turned hostile when her advances were spurned.

Looks like the peanut gallery has swallowed the official line, but we know better. (wink, wink).
 
Jeff Oslick said:
Sounds just like the level-headed kind of guy with a gun I'd want next to me on an airplane.

:mad2:
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Always remember, LEOs are not the best suited people for the job.

They are the best suited people THAT APPLY for the job.
 
There has got to be much more to this story....... Much more. I'm not jumping on the "fry the cop bandbagon" especially from a UK article.

And it was a US flagged aircraft, so forcing the USAM off the plane he has committed a crime of interfering with official duties.

Anything else on this story other than a snapshot article?
 
Unit74 said:
There has got to be much more to this story....... Much more. I'm not jumping on the "fry the cop bandbagon" especially from a UK article.

And it was a US flagged aircraft, so forcing the USAM off the plane he has committed a crime of interfering with official duties.

Anything else on this story other than a snapshot article?
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There is a slightly longer article in the NY Post fwiw.

He 'forced' the FAM off the plane by calling the FAMs supervisor.

This guy is suing TSA over the disciplinary action. He is not suing the airline. Probably part of the same group that sued TSA because they got fat while on the job.
 
The captain has the final say , Same he would on a ship. It's his call. This federal nut is typical of people who should not have access to a gun. It does seem strange it did not become a major headline in print and on TV! How about the former FBI agent turned congressman who threatened to throw a cub reporter off a balcony in a federal building. Another candidate for a padded cell.
 
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Jimmy cooper said:
It does seem strange it did not become a major headline in print and on TV!
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Maybe because it didn't actually happen the way it is described in his anti-discrimination lawsuit ?
 
Once again, I'm prolly on my own here, but I consider the pilot in command authority to exceeds any air marshal on board.
 
docmirror said:
Once again, I'm prolly on my own here, but I consider the pilot in command authority to exceeds any air marshal on board.
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Agreed. However I am wondering if there's some language buried in Homeland Defense Bill.
 
The plane was on the ground. Pilot had an irate person in front of him. It could be the pope or the president and the PIC would not be required to take off in that situation. Again, he didn't remove the guy with force, he called the FAM supervisor and had him taken off the flight. The guy was not on the flight because his supervisor ordered him off (and suspended him for the incident).
 
weilke said:
The plane was on the ground. Pilot had an irate person in front of him. It could be the pope or the president and the PIC would not be required to take off in that situation. Again, he didn't remove the guy with force, he called the FAM supervisor and had him taken off the flight. The guy was not on the flight because his supervisor ordered him off (and suspended him for the incident).
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Poor guy. It must be really stressful when your colleagues are offered three meal selections in 1st class, but you only have beef as a choice.

I probably would have flipped, too.

Matters became worse when Maldonado was offered only one dinner choice by the same attendant who dropped the drinks while his colleagues were allowed three.

'All I have for you is beef,' she is alleged to have said to Maldonado who believes that he was intentionally singled out for poor treatment.
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ElPaso Pilot said:
Poor guy. It must be really stressful when your colleagues are offered three meal selections in 1st class, but you only have beef as a choice.
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That's one way to pick out the FAMs. When you board with business class and you find an able bodied person in the plane who wasn't part of the 'passengers with children in car-seats' group. Oh, and if you recognize him from hanging around the terminal in his 'DHS police' tacticool outfits while on non-flying status.
 
weilke said:
That's one way to pick out the FAMs. When you board with business class and you find an able bodied person in the plane who wasn't part of the 'passengers with children in car-seats' group. Oh, and if you recognize him from hanging around the terminal in his 'DHS police' tacticool outfits while on non-flying status.
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Isn't that CBP? I've seen them a few times. Even took a pic of a fully lightbared up golf cart!!


I fly commercial a lot and never see any uber tactical federal door kickers be bopping around. I was in the Corps with a guy who went FAM and he was not what what you'd call tactical or anything. Another guy who was a reserve was a FAM and he said they specifically dress like where they are going. Like a Hawaiian shirt going to the islands or maybe jeans and a wrangler shirt going to Texas or the likes. Makes sense to me.
 
weilke said:
That's one way to pick out the FAMs. When you board with business class and you find an able bodied person in the plane who wasn't part of the 'passengers with children in car-seats' group. Oh, and if you recognize him from hanging around the terminal in his 'DHS police' tacticool outfits while on non-flying status.
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Those guys stand out like sore thumbs. Might as well wear a yellow shirt with "COP" written on the back.
 
Unit74 said:
I fly commercial a lot and never see any uber tactical federal door kickers be bopping around. I was in the Corps with a guy who went FAM and he was not what what you'd call tactical or anything.
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The only thing tactical about them are the dropleg holsters and the external vests with 'DHS Police' on the back. Their other key feature are the Starbucks cups in their hands and the fact that they usually come in groups of three talking to each other, oblivious to their surroundings.

Another guy who was a reserve was a FAM and he said they specifically dress like where they are going. Like a Hawaiian shirt going to the islands or maybe jeans and a wrangler shirt going to Texas or the likes. Makes sense to me.
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Sometimes they try a little bit too hard to look inconspicuous.

The tactical getup is for the times they are detailed to provide general airport security.
 
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Unit74 said:
There has got to be much more to this story....... Much more. I'm not jumping on the "fry the cop bandbagon" especially from a UK article.

And it was a US flagged aircraft, so forcing the USAM off the plane he has committed a crime of interfering with official duties.

Anything else on this story other than a snapshot article?
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Totally agree.
 
nddons said:
I don't think so. Did the Air Marshall have the right to be in the cockpit?

There can only be one person in charge on an aircraft. That would be the PIC.
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INO, it's simply a case of not having all the facts. Im betting there's a lot more to this story.
 
Kritchlow said:
INO, it's simply a case of not having all the facts. Im betting there's a lot more to this story.
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Or a lot less. I bet if you asked the captain, the FA and the other FAM, they would barely remember the incident.
 
weilke said:
Because all we know about this incident is from a complaint in a lawsuit by the employee against the agency. He is not suing about the incident, he is suing about his employer disciplining him for it and his general grievance that the agency discriminated against him. Complaints in lawsuits are often somewhat embellished to support the case of the plaintiff. That's why I would expect that the other people involved remember it differently.
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I sort of followed you, but it is late and I may be a bit slow.

At this point I will wait until all the facts are laid out before passing judgement.

I'm not sure of your background. Have you had FAM's on board before?
 
Kritchlow said:
How do you know that?
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Because all we know about this incident is from a complaint in a lawsuit by the employee against the agency. He is not suing about the incident, he is suing about his employer disciplining him for it and his general grievance that the agency discriminated against him. Complaints in lawsuits are often somewhat embellished to support the case of the plaintiff. That's why judges and juries dont just read the complaint and hand out damages, there is something called a trial where the plaintiff has to prove his case. Often, after depositions are taken, things look a little bit different from how it was alledged in the complaint.

That's why I would expect that the other people involved may remember it differently.
 
Whoa.... Freekin' Twighlight Zone stuff here. I quoted you before you posted..
 
The Air Marshal had a drink spilled on him,wonder if it was a cocktail for himself. Would make me happy to know that the man with a gun was drinking on the flight. According to the article,the pilot may also need a revaluation.
 
weilke said:
Because all we know about this incident is from a complaint in a lawsuit by the employee against the agency. He is not suing about the incident, he is suing about his employer disciplining him for it and his general grievance that the agency discriminated against him. Complaints in lawsuits are often somewhat embellished to support the case of the plaintiff. That's why judges and juries dont just read the complaint and hand out damages, there is something called a trial where the plaintiff has to prove his case. Often, after depositions are taken, things look a little bit different from how it was alledged in the complaint.

That's why I would expect that the other people involved may remember it differently.
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This. ^^

He's not suing about the incident on the plane. That's just sidebar humor for us.

The airline and the captain's identity are not disclosed in the suit.
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http://www.nydailynews.com/new-york/captain-boots-cranky-air-marshal-plane-article-1.2387347
 
weilke said:
Because all we know about this incident is from a complaint in a lawsuit by the employee against the agency. He is not suing about the incident, he is suing about his employer disciplining him for it and his general grievance that the agency discriminated against him. Complaints in lawsuits are often somewhat embellished to support the case of the plaintiff. That's why judges and juries dont just read the complaint and hand out damages, there is something called a trial where the plaintiff has to prove his case. Often, after depositions are taken, things look a little bit different from how it was alledged in the complaint.

That's why I would expect that the other people involved may remember it differently.
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He might have something. There are reports that FAMs are excessively overworked and have higher than normal stress problems. If he had an undiagnosed condition that led to the erratic behavior then his agency would clearly be in the wrong. They would have effectively punished him for having a work related injury.

You couldn't pay me enough to be a FAM right now - they are flying more than the pilots and don't have the same rest rules.
 
Let me see if I have the job duties down right.

FAM's job is to get up, go to the airport, bypass TSA security(unlike the rest of us), get to the gate, and sit on a plane, usually in first or business class. Then, he gets to a destination, gets a comped meal, gets on another plane in first or business class, and goes back where he came from. Then, maybe gets on another plane, rides to his home base and goes home, or gets a comped taxi/shuttle, hotel room, meals, and ride back to the airport the next day, where he does the same thing again.

So, basically a rent-a-cop job for the airlines. Now, this isn't glam work, it's not that fun riding around in the planes and all, but the job is to sit - wait - sleep - sit - wait - sleep. Yeah, they have to wear a badge and gun, but really, this is supposed to be hard work? And, it's all paid by my tax dollars? Hmmmmm, wish I could be this 'overworked'.
 
docmirror said:
Let me see if I have the job duties down right.



FAM's job is to get up, go to the airport, bypass TSA security(unlike the rest of us), get to the gate, and sit on a plane, usually in first or business class. Then, he gets to a destination, gets a comped meal, gets on another plane in first or business class, and goes back where he came from. Then, maybe gets on another plane, rides to his home base and goes home, or gets a comped taxi/shuttle, hotel room, meals, and ride back to the airport the next day, where he does the same thing again.



So, basically a rent-a-cop job for the airlines. Now, this isn't glam work, it's not that fun riding around in the planes and all, but the job is to sit - wait - sleep - sit - wait - sleep. Yeah, they have to wear a badge and gun, but really, this is supposed to be hard work? And, it's all paid by my tax dollars? Hmmmmm, wish I could be this 'overworked'.
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Do they really fly in First Class? That would appear to miss everything going on in the main cabin with the rest of us cattle.
 
docmirror said:
Let me see if I have the job duties down right.

FAM's job is to get up, go to the airport, bypass TSA security(unlike the rest of us), get to the gate, and sit on a plane, usually in first or business class. Then, he gets to a destination, gets a comped meal, gets on another plane in first or business class, and goes back where he came from. Then, maybe gets on another plane, rides to his home base and goes home, or gets a comped taxi/shuttle, hotel room, meals, and ride back to the airport the next day, where he does the same thing again.

So, basically a rent-a-cop job for the airlines. Now, this isn't glam work, it's not that fun riding around in the planes and all, but the job is to sit - wait - sleep - sit - wait - sleep. Yeah, they have to wear a badge and gun, but really, this is supposed to be hard work? And, it's all paid by my tax dollars? Hmmmmm, wish I could be this 'overworked'.
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The overwork part comes from excessively long hours and short rest periods. Remember that unlike you and me, the FAM cannot sleep on the plane. Their cycle is probably more like wait, wait, wait, sit, sit, sit, slee..., wait, wait, wait

If you've never traveled regularly on commercial airlines, you have no idea how this goes. But consider a long day which is supposed to have been 3 flights/12 hours, but turns into 18 because of a late flight. You get off the plane, find your hotel, get 5 hours of sleep and then get up and do it all again the next day, several days in a row.

Here, these guys probably say it better than I can -

http://www.cnn.com/2015/08/13/us/federal-air-marshals-investigation/
 
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