Aeronca Champ type design...

Discussion in 'Home Builders and Sport Pilots' started by Bell206, Apr 27, 2019.

  1. Bell206

    Bell206 Pattern Altitude

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    Are there any E/AB kits or designs that follow a Champ's lines and dimensions?
     
  2. Dan Thomas

    Dan Thomas Final Approach

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  3. kyleb

    kyleb En-Route PoA Supporter

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    Join the National Aeronca Association or join Aeroncamuseum.org.

    You can get all of the Champ plans for just a few bucks.
     
  4. Matthew Rogers

    Matthew Rogers Pre-takeoff checklist

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  5. Dan Thomas

    Dan Thomas Final Approach

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    There are hundreds of homebuilt designs, and the more popular tend to be slick-looking, much faster machines. The Christavia/Champ has that maiden-aunt charm that doesn't appeal to most pilots.
     
  6. Bell206

    Bell206 Pattern Altitude

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    Do you know of any other high-wing designs that have larger doors and a possible side by side option that would allow a tall, older person to get in and out fairly easy? An old friend first lost his ability to roll into his Super Cub then lost his medical. We started looking at Champs and now E/AB to keep him focused forward.
     
  7. Dan Thomas

    Dan Thomas Final Approach

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    Sure. The Cyclone. Not cheap to build. http://www3.sympatico.ca/st-justaviation/
    It's a big airplane.

    Most E/AB airplanes are small and tough to get into. I'm almost 66 and have arthritis all over the place, so I know what it's like to get into a Cub or Husky. The Champ is far easier. That four-place Christavia might be the answer, but I've never seen one so don't know.

    These things take time and plenty of money to build. If your "old" friend is old, he has to take that into account. Might be better to buy a decently-built homebuilt and get on with the flying.
     
  8. Craig

    Craig Line Up and Wait

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    Bearhawk, or Bearhawk LSA might have big enough doors. Forgot that the LSA is a tandem seat tho....
     
    Last edited: Apr 29, 2019
  9. Tom-D

    Tom-D Taxi to Parking PoA Supporter

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    Wag-Aero's wagobond
     
    Last edited: Apr 29, 2019
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  10. Kenny Phillips

    Kenny Phillips Pattern Altitude

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    There are only 65 in the FAA registry.
     
  11. Mtns2Skies

    Mtns2Skies Super Moderator Management Council Member PoA Supporter

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    Glasair Sportsman, or Sportsman 2+2
     
  12. Tom-D

    Tom-D Taxi to Parking PoA Supporter

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    I'd go with the suggestion of the Glasair, Sportsman.
    They are a spendy kit, but very nice aircraft. lots of pre-made parts ready to assemble.
     
  13. Capt. Geoffrey Thorpe

    Capt. Geoffrey Thorpe Touchdown! Greaser! PoA Supporter

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    I assume you are looking for something that qualifies as an LSA?
    On the no help at all side of the equation, my ride (Merlin GT), Avid Fliers, Kitfox (at least the early one's) and derivatives can be a challenge - the issue isn't so much door size as it is the seat tends to be a bit high off the ground if you are going in ass first, then you have to get a leg around the stick. Then they tend to be short on legroom once you get in. I would think that a center stick and a step welded to the gear (or from the lower longeron) could make a big difference, but it's hard to say fur sure. (I made the right side stick removable to make it easier for my daughter to get in and out.)
     
  14. Bell206

    Bell206 Pattern Altitude

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    As much as he thinks he can get his medical back, I'm thinking of pushing him to LSA. So the answer would be yes. And my thinking is we can further modify the airframe to make it as easy as possible for him to get in.
     
  15. Capt. Geoffrey Thorpe

    Capt. Geoffrey Thorpe Touchdown! Greaser! PoA Supporter

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    Unless you really need the extra seats, the medical just isn't worth the trip. You can tell him I said so. :)

    List of potential LSA experimentals:
    https://www.eaa.org/eaa/aviation-in...sa-aircraft/Experimental Light-Sport Aircraft

    The ultralightish looking aircraft would be winners in the entry/egress catagory, but may not be acceptable as "airplane" enough.

    Got water? https://www.searey.com/ You have to get over the sill, but...

    It could take some time to work through the list of "not the big name brand" aircraft - but you might find a gem...
     
  16. Bell206

    Bell206 Pattern Altitude

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    I tried that tack. And look where it got me. At 78, he want's to build it which is fine with me. He's been building aircraft and engines forever. This would be his 1st E/AB.

    The plan is to finish his current Super Cub project this summer as it is sold firewall aft. So, that leaves him with an extra O-320. However, in my limited experience on this side of things, I don't think we could put that into something and keep the LSA ability? He does have several O-200s laying around in pieces he/we could build up.

    As of now I think the Christavia and Wag-a-Bond are on the short list as they better mirror his abilities and experience after building 30 or so Cubs in his lifetime.

    Appreciate everybody's help.
     
  17. Bell206

    Bell206 Pattern Altitude

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    If you had to guess, do you think the Wag-a-Bond uses J3 parts like the original Vagabond did? He has a number of J3 parts "in stock."
     
  18. Bell206

    Bell206 Pattern Altitude

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    It's my understanding it's only 2 place whether tandem or side-by-side???
     
  19. Bell206

    Bell206 Pattern Altitude

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    He doesn't need the seats. I think he's starting to internally realize he's on the downhill side which has led to the E/AB discussion. And the reason I'm helping him with this. He's been flying since 15 and flew big-iron professionally from 21 to 65 reaching the top 10 seniority listing at a major airline. I don't win many debates with him but will pass your message along.;)
     
  20. Greg Bockelman

    Greg Bockelman Administrator Management Council Member

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    If your friend is wanting to fly solo legally, he might be out of luck if he applied for a medical and was subsequently denied. That pretty much rules out Basic Med and light sport.
     
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  21. hotprops

    hotprops Line Up and Wait

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    there are many nice 7acchamps around that have never been over 1320 gross wt .it took 3or4 years to find what I was looking for and a lot of $.and than a lot of $ to make it as I wanted. I am now the owner of the most upside down champ on the planet. but it is what I wanted and it will be my estates problem at some point.start looking or find a good dealer to find you one as I did.
     
  22. Bell206

    Bell206 Pattern Altitude

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    Negative on the denial. He let it expire. He's been through the medical loss/regain hoops before due to previous issues and understands the limitations. But thanks for the info.
     
  23. Greg Bockelman

    Greg Bockelman Administrator Management Council Member

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    Well, in my defense, in your post. #6 you stated that your friend “then lost his medical.” That usually means “denied”. Glad to hear it just expired. He should be good to go on the Basic Med route.
     
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  24. Bell206

    Bell206 Pattern Altitude

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    For my own knowledge, the reference on this would be 61.53 and by extension 61.23(c)?
     
  25. Greg Bockelman

    Greg Bockelman Administrator Management Council Member

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    Looks like it to me.
     
  26. Capt. Geoffrey Thorpe

    Capt. Geoffrey Thorpe Touchdown! Greaser! PoA Supporter

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    Rans S20 appears to fit the bill - big wide doors, seat moves back easily. The big issue would appear to be be the seat height off the ground.
     
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  27. Stan Cooper

    Stan Cooper Line Up and Wait

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  28. MarkH

    MarkH Pre-Flight

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    As long as nothing has changed that may require an SI, then BasicMed is what I would suggest any pilot. But keep in mind, with BasicMed there is a list of conditions that require you get an SI before you can fly with those conditions on BasicMed (see: https://www.faa.gov/licenses_certificates/airmen_certification/basic_med/). In my opinion, the biggest advantage of BasicMed is that your Primary Care Physician cannot deny your ability to fly LSA later.
     
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  29. zaitcev

    zaitcev En-Route

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    The S-20 is an expensive airplane, as far as RANS go. I'd start with S-6S Coyote II. Gear is not particularly tall on it - just tall enough to permit easy boarding (admittedly, from a perspective of a taller pilot).