Advice for 1st airplane

That's not much airplane for 180k.

It's like pimp my ride, more screens and you guys think its more airplane.
 
Two small kids are not going to stay small forever, a C-182 with 4 full size people gets mighty tight inside with baggage. You might be hard pressed to find a C182 that is not a older one for your price range. Their are two PA-32-300 in trade-a-plane around 50K or less. :)
 
ahkahn said:
Mine is! ;) I have all of the available speed mods. I get 160-165.
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Is it a turbo? I can see the PA32RT doing 160-165, but that is running 75% power at around 8k (although the fuel burn makes me cry).
 
Fearless Tower said:
Is it a turbo? I can see the PA32RT doing 160-165, but that is running 75% power at around 8k (although the fuel burn makes me cry).
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Nope... NA. It's not a T, it's a straight tail. I do 160-165kts straight and level between 5000-8000 at 75% power. Drops off below and above. That is actually lower than what LoPresti says it should do, but LoPresti has been known to "enhance" their numbers a touch. I have a howl cowl, spats, splitters, flap seals, belly fairings, windshield wedge, and wing tips.
 
Alexb2000 said:
You say things like this all the time. Let's see what you think is a better alternative.
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Same thing but with less pimp factor and a realistic price of about 100k.

For me, for that price you can get a A185F amphib, Full garmin stack, HSI, newer autopilot, all STOL mods, low time and straight.
 
James331 said:
Same thing but with less pimp factor and a realistic price of about 100k.

For me, for that price you can get a A185F amphib, Full garmin stack, HSI, newer autopilot, all STOL mods, low time and straight.
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Do you have a link to this aircraft?
 
ahkahn said:
Nope... NA. It's not a T, it's a straight tail. I do 160-165kts straight and level between 5000-8000 at 75% power. Drops off below and above. That is actually lower than what LoPresti says it should do, but LoPresti has been known to "enhance" their numbers a touch. I have a howl cowl, spats, splitters, flap seals, belly fairings, windshield wedge, and wing tips.
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Interesting. I've never flown a straight tail Lance. Kind of wonder why they ever made the t-tail.
 
Fearless Tower said:
There's 30 of them on TAP right now, mostly 70s models. Most expensive is 139k. Most are in the $80-$120k range.

$180 is what you might expect to see on a mod-late 80s Saratoga.
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Anyone interested in a friendly wager that the aircraft I posted will sell in 90 days?:)
 
Alexb2000 said:
Anyone interested in a friendly wager that the aircraft I posted will sell in 90 days?:)
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There is a sucker born any minute and there there are still people that actually think Romo is valuable. Anything is possible.
 
Alexb2000 said:
Do you have a link to this aircraft?
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It's the plane in my avatar :wink2:

image.jpg
 
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DrPappy said:
I am playing with the idea of buying my own aircraft. I trained in 152s/172s so was thinking about looking into a 172, however weight limitations would mean my wife, 2 kids, and I could barely fly with no luggage. If it is going to be at all practical I will need something that will hold just a little more. With not a ton of flight time under my belt, I need something that is not a bear to handle and is fairly affordable, maybe around $65,000 or less. KDWH (Hooks, near Houston) is my closest field, and I would definitely consider co-ownership if you know of anyone who wants to partner.

I think maybe a mid-1970's 182 might do the trick,
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I think it might, too, although you should also look at Piper's entry in that class, the PA28-235/236 Archer/235 Cherokee.
 
There are a few on here if you search.

She's got a garmin audio panel, 530/430/330 Sandel EHSI, stec AP with GPSS, electric aileron trim, JPI, etc.

Besides, don't think the OP is lookin for a backcountry plane or amphib.
 
James331 said:
There are a few on here if you search.

She's got a garmin audio panel, 530/430/330 Sandel EHSI, stec AP with GPSS, electric aileron trim, JPI, etc.

Besides, don't think the OP is lookin for a backcountry plane or amphib.
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Sounds like you got a really good deal.
 
Fearless Tower said:
Interesting. I've never flown a straight tail Lance. Kind of wonder why they ever made the t-tail.
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'76's and '77's were straight tails. In '78, Piper management thought that T-tails were cool looking, so they switched the Lance and the Arrow. They failed miserably, and since the Lance was a relatively new name, and the T-Tail ruined it's name, Piper decided in 1981ish that they will need to return back to the straight tail... but did not want to call it a Lance because too many people associated Lances with T-Tails. So, they called it a "Saratoga".
 
ahkahn said:
Beautiful plane, Henning! You could get a nearly identical 196x-197x version of this one with virtually no difference in performance for 50k... 75k with nice avionics.
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Yep, find a nice condition low time older PA-32 and upgrade it to modern specs with a panel and you have the same capability. I don't know why people think upgrading panels on old planes is such bad idea, look at the B-52.
 
I had my Six for several years and it was a great family plane....for all the reasons mentioned above.

The only reason I sold it was the VP decided she didn't like flying.....so I downsized to something a bit faster. :D
 
Henning said:
Yep, find a nice condition low time older PA-32 and upgrade it to modern specs with a panel and you have the same capability. I don't know why people think upgrading panels on old planes is such bad idea, look at the B-52.
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unless you're the one doing the work.....it's always a bad idea to buy a fixer upper. Period.

I've had more luck buying the right panel and engine than upgrading....and I am a mechanic. :D
 
Checkout_my_Six said:
unless you're the one doing the work.....it's always a bad idea to buy a fixer upper. Period.

I've had more luck buying the right panel and engine than upgrading....and I am a mechanic. :D
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It's not a bad deal idea to buy a fixer upper if you are keeping it and flying it.

You're pointing out the Catch-22 in the issue. If nobody does the upgrades because everybody wants to buy the upgrades installed, where will the upgraded airplanes come from?:dunno: The only way you are buying the technology installed is to buy a recent vintage factory OEM glass airplane and spend 2-3 times as much on it. When the difference is $100k v $200k, the only way you can come out ahead is if the OEM plane doesn't depreciate more before selling than your upgrades, and looking at the prices of first gen OEM glass planes, I'm not seeing that as a reality.
 
DrPappy said:
I am playing with the idea of buying my own aircraft. I trained in 152s/172s so was thinking about looking into a 172, however weight limitations would mean my wife, 2 kids, and I could barely fly with no luggage. If it is going to be at all practical I will need something that will hold just a little more. With not a ton of flight time under my belt, I need something that is not a bear to handle and is fairly affordable, maybe around $65,000 or less. KDWH (Hooks, near Houston) is my closest field, and I would definitely consider co-ownership if you know of anyone who wants to partner.

I think maybe a mid-1970's 182 might do the trick, but honestly know very little about anything other than 152s/172s. I know that many of you guys have tons of experience in this field so I'm asking for your input. What first plane should I look for?
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Your kids won't stay little long.

http://www.trade-a-plane.com/detail/1761386.html
 
Checkout_my_Six said:
I had my Six for several years and it was a great family plane....for all the reasons mentioned above.

The only reason I sold it was the VP decided she didn't like flying.....so I downsized to something a bit faster. :D
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And this is the biggest question I have for the OP. Does your whole family really want to go on vacations in a small airplane? Are you really going to pack that sucker full on a regular basis? So many people buy vehicles for missions they imagine doing rather than missions they will actually do.

182s are super easy to rent. They're everywhere. I suggest getting checked out and renting a 182 and actually packing the family in there. Maybe do three trips and see if it's what you imagined. All this talk here of your kids growing up fast and so you better buy a big plane, well it may turn out that your kids hate flying, are bored to tears with it and would rather stay home.

I have found that people around new pilots tend to humor them for a while because they want to support the new obsession, but after the novelty wears off, passengers start saying- "No, I'm good, thanks. I think I'll stay home." On the other hand, you may actually be one of the lucky ones that has a true flying family. Either way it would be nice to find out with a rental IMO.
 
Dav8or said:
182s are super easy to rent. They're everywhere.
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Maybe in Cali. Much of the country isn't like that. Only 182 you're going to rent around here will cost you $220 wet, require a checkout, require currency every 90 days, and will carry a pretty heavy daily minimum and a whole bunch of rules and permission asking. Not really an option for most folks that don't like to play like that.
 
Dav8or said:
And this is the biggest question I have for the OP. Does your whole family really want to go on vacations in a small airplane? Are you really going to pack that sucker full on a regular basis? So many people buy vehicles for missions they imagine doing rather than missions they will actually do.

182s are super easy to rent. They're everywhere. I suggest getting checked out and renting a 182 and actually packing the family in there. Maybe do three trips and see if it's what you imagined. All this talk here of your kids growing up fast and so you better buy a big plane, well it may turn out that your kids hate flying, are bored to tears with it and would rather stay home.

I have found that people around new pilots tend to humor them for a while because they want to support the new obsession, but after the novelty wears off, passengers start saying- "No, I'm good, thanks. I think I'll stay home." On the other hand, you may actually be one of the lucky ones that has a true flying family. Either way it would be nice to find out with a rental IMO.
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Please locate a 182 to rent in SoFla, my choices are basically 172, Warrior, or Seminole (The comedy was the 172 and Warrior were a 1 hr check out and the Seminole was .6)
 
jesse said:
Maybe in Cali. Much of the country isn't like that. Only 182 you're going to rent around here will cost you $220 wet, require a checkout, require currency every 90 days, and will carry a pretty heavy daily minimum and a whole bunch of rules and permission asking. Not really an option for most folks that don't like to play like that.
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I didn't say they were cheap to rent, just they're not hard to find and not that big of a deal to rent. Whatever the headaches are in one's locality, they are worth the hassle to find out if a 182, or similar aircraft is a right fit. The $220 an hour is nothing compared to ownership of the wrong airplane.
 
Henning said:
Please locate a 182 to rent in SoFla, my choices are basically 172, Warrior, or Seminole (The comedy was the 172 and Warrior were a 1 hr check out and the Seminole was .6)
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A little Google and I found two in Miami, one in Naples, one in Fort Lauderdale and one in West Palm Beach. There does seem to be way more in North Florida from Tampa and up.

If one has to drive a bit to get the 182, I think it's well worth it to see if the family travels well by air rather than just buying one and crossing your fingers. If the OP ends up like many do, flying mostly solo, IMO the 182 is not the ideal choice for that.
 
Dav8or said:
A little Google and I found two in Miami, one in Naples, one in Fort Lauderdale and one in West Palm Beach. There does seem to be way more in North Florida from Tampa and up.

If one has to drive a bit to get the 182, I think it's well worth it to see if the family travels well by air rather than just buying one and crossing your fingers. If the OP ends up like many do, flying mostly solo, IMO the 182 is not the ideal choice for that.
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The one in Ft Lauderdale hasn't been available in a while. Lots of planes you can find to rent here on the Internet do not exist IRL anymore. I went through the same thing finding a retract. Naples is an hour and a half drive away, half way to where I would be flying it most of the time.
 
Henning said:
The one in Ft Lauderdale hasn't been available in a while. Lots of planes you can find to rent here on the Internet do not exist IRL anymore. I went through the same thing finding a retract. Naples is an hour and a half drive away, half way to where I would be flying it most of the time.
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Sounds like you need to buy a 182 and put it on lease back somewhere! Clearly the market is not being served.:D
 
Henning said:
It's not a bad deal idea to buy a fixer upper if you are keeping it and flying it.



You're pointing out the Catch-22 in the issue. If nobody does the upgrades because everybody wants to buy the upgrades installed, where will the upgraded airplanes come from?:dunno: The only way you are buying the technology installed is to buy a recent vintage factory OEM glass airplane and spend 2-3 times as much on it. When the difference is $100k v $200k, the only way you can come out ahead is if the OEM plane doesn't depreciate more before selling than your upgrades, and looking at the prices of first gen OEM glass planes, I'm not seeing that as a reality.
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In Florida there's a financial benefit to upgrading, maintenance is tax free, buying planes is not (6-7%)
 
Dav8or said:
Sounds like you need to buy a 182 and put it on lease back somewhere! Clearly the market is not being served.:D
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I got signed off in a 182 a few years back. After a few of my awful landings, I started to feel sorry for the plane.
 
Checkout_my_Six said:
I had my Six for several years and it was a great family plane....for all the reasons mentioned above.

The only reason I sold it was the VP decided she didn't like flying.....so I downsized to something a bit faster. :D
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Ding Ding.....

The wife and kids may find it fun the first few times, but then it fades if they are not into it... When the kids get older their interest will change too and hanging out with dad is not as likely as it is now...

Just speaking from my own experience..
 
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