Adsb Vs Eyeballs in spotting aircraft called out by ATC

What percentage of flying aircraft do you spot vs what you see on ADSB-in when called out by ATC?

  • I see many more flying aircraft with my own Eyeballs than I ever see with ADSB-in?

    Votes: 1 1.4%

  • I know where many more flying aircraft are with ADSB, but rarely actually see them.

    Votes: 26 36.1%

  • I see very few called out aircraft even after looking, and keep my head looking down in shame (ADSB)

    Votes: 4 5.6%

  • I can not believe how many aircraft I visually can not see, even when I know exactly where they are

    Votes: 40 55.6%

  • I use both ADSB and Eyeballs, but my Eyeballs are better when I have ADSB help

    Votes: 29 40.3%

  • I do not use ADSB-in, pilots should be keeping there head up all the time and using their Eyeballs

    Votes: 3 4.2%
  • Total voters
    72
A

ahypnoz

Pre-takeoff checklist
Joined
Feb 22, 2015
Messages
137
Location
oklahoma city
Display Name
Display name:
ahypnoz
On very long cross country trips, I listen to ATC "call out" traffic to other aircraft and then I listen to see if the other pilots actually sees the "called out" aircraft and respond to ATC that they have the other aircraft in sight. I make a running tally of aircraft called out by ATC and aircraft actually seen by the other pilots and responded back to ATC that the other aircraft has been seen. The numbers do not look good. I know that there are some pilots that see the other aircraft, but do not respond, but I am assuming most pilots that are advised of other aircraft by ATC will respond if/when they see the other aircraft. It looks like around 20% of called out aircraft are actually spotted during a en route flight and are identified verbally back to ATC. However, the number of aircraft "identified" is much higher when the other airplanes are in the pattern.

I do have to say that my own personal percentage of spotted flying aircraft is pretty low of the "called out" aircraft by ATC, but my flight instructor has an uncanny ability to spot flying aircraft and he would have been A WWI ace.
 
I see more with my own eyes than show up on ADSB, however, that's a portable ADSB unit and does not pick up everything.
 
I love ADSB as an aid to situational awareness. I see ADSB traffic on screen and am scanning for that target long before ATC even issues a traffic advisory...and often adjust course to even avoid needing a callout if we are converging.

ADSB for me simply provides a more focused area of where to be looking for known target.
 
Is there something "official" to say to ATC when you have the traffic on ADSB, but not visually. It should NOT include the word "fishfinder!"
 
Even when ATC calls it out, I usually can't find it. And if I do see it, it is not where ATC said it was.
But if they call it out, and I then see it on ADSB, and THEN I look where ADSB says it is, well I'll be darned! There it is. (eventually. I can't see anything more than about 2 miles out).
 
Count me as another that sees traffic on ADSB long before detecting it visually, even knowing where to look. LOTS of aircraft out there that I likely wouldn’t have ever known were there. 99.9% isn’t a factor (big sky/small airplane), but I have adjusted flight path to avoid someone that I thought could potentially be a factor. Chances are extremely slim most of those were actually a collision hazard though, but who knows?

Also, I know that ADSB wx (radar data) has an inherent delay (“old” image) and I use it for strategic flight planning and to help visually acquire and avoid t-storms, but I am frequently surprised at just how accurate it really is. It takes some effort to remind myself that it may be wrong and to treat it as such.
 
Oh how do I love hollerin "tally-ho!!" every time ATC calls traffic or when the wife points it out. I holler it especially slow and loud enough to over modulate my mic when flying the work planes. Makes me sound....

This is all BS, I can't use that term and not feel like a total donkey. Sounds so lame when I hear another pilot use it. If I was flying a Spitfire I'd totally use it, even for no reason.
 
Eric Stoltz said:
Oh how do I love hollerin "tally-ho!!" every time ATC calls traffic or when the wife points it out. I holler it especially slow and loud enough to over modulate my mic when flying the work planes. Makes me sound....

This is all BS, I can't use that term and not feel like a total donkey. Sounds so lame when I hear another pilot use it. If I was flying a Spitfire I'd totally use it, even for no reason.
Click to expand...
I have used "no joy" several times, but only when asked how I was doing at the time.
 
It's kind of difficult to answer the question of "What percentage of flying aircraft do you spot vs what you see on ADSB-in when called out by ATC? " when none of the answers have a percentage.

Just sayin'
 
My procedure tell ATC "Looking"
Check ADS-B
Look for aircraft
Call ATC and say "No Joy" most of the time.
 
"Big sky" works better than "see and avoid." With ADS-B there is better situational awareness, and the reality is you probably won't see any traffic visually outside the 2 mile ring. With ADS-B, it's much easier to find aircraft visually within 2 miles, but not foolproof.

ADS-B will encourage you to maintain altitude discipline for crossing traffic 500 feet above or below!
 
The idea of “ADSB head-down syndrome” is total BS. I fixate on it no more than I do any other instrument while VFR, maybe even much less. Glance at it for a sec to see what’s nearby and then play the eyeball game. If anything, it’s got my eyes outside more and I’m getting practiced at picking out a moving dot.
 
midlifeflyer said:
At best ADS-B is great for traffic awareness. But I want to see the traffic with my eyeballs.
Click to expand...
Me too. But it is a lot easier to put my eyeballs on the target, if I have a very good idea of WHERE the target is. When ATC says "3 Oclock", it might somewhere between 12:00 and 6:00 and 10 miles away.
 
ATC is almost always off on their estimates. When they call traffic I almost always have it identified on the screen and looking before they warn.

And if they warn me and I don’t have it insight I’ve told them I have them on the screen and I’m looking visually. They have always said thanks.
 
JOhnH said:
Me too. But it is a lot easier to put my eyeballs on the target, if I have a very good idea of WHERE the target is. When ATC says "3 Oclock", it might somewhere between 12:00 and 6:00 and 10 miles away.
Click to expand...
That's exactly what I meant.
 
ADSB is a valuable safety tool... saved me lots of times. For ex. taking off and there was a plane coming right at me using the opposite runway for a practice approach... he did not advise he was coming until I heard the "traffic"/"traffic" call out by the Dynon... He called when we were no more than 1/4 mile apart. I immediately turned right, and I could see him on the Dynon and I had the confidence that I was avoiding him.

The other day I was coming into the pattern at my home airport and right in front of me was a Cub... he doesn't have ADSB... so, cannot rely solely on the ADSB that is for sure. Like all tools, they are not 100% foolproof.
 
Wow, I'm so glad to know it's not just me that has a hard time spotting other aircraft. As a student pilot, it's one of the things I struggle with. My instructor says it comes with time and practice. I hope he's right because I feel like an idiot always having to reply "looking for traffic" instead of "traffic in sight", or finally telling the controller I still don't have the traffic, and to please call my turns.
 
Probably 80-90% of the time it’s “negative traffic”. ADS-b helps a lot and I’m sometimes amazed how much is out there that I don’t see. In the beginning I was somewhat freaked out by all the traffic.
upload_2019-6-17_8-55-5.jpeg
 
455 Bravo Uniform said:
The idea of “ADSB head-down syndrome” is total BS. I fixate on it no more than I do any other instrument while VFR, maybe even much less. Glance at it for a sec to see what’s nearby and then play the eyeball game. If anything, it’s got my eyes outside more and I’m getting practiced at picking out a moving dot.
Click to expand...
Maybe not you, but there was a thread recently where someone was using adsb while doing pattern work. I’m sorry, but IMO, in the pattern, your attention is much better spent looking outside.
 
I think "negative contact" is my most heavily used phrase when flying. I think people complaining about ADSB not helping are full of it.

I have pretty good vision but I can never seem to spot the traffic.
 
Salty said:
Maybe not you, but there was a thread recently where someone was using adsb while doing pattern work. I’m sorry, but IMO, in the pattern, your attention is much better spent looking outside.
Click to expand...

Saturday, an experimental came up fast right behind me while I was setting up for the 45 to the pattern. I couldn't see him and he had just come out of the SFRA and wasn't talking on the Unicom yet. I saw him via ADSB. He finally made his position call, which I confirmed on the ADSB display. I reported where I was, said I was slow and he was coming up my butt. Without talking, he made a sharp turn, entered the base and landed while I was still on a 45. I could see him on final.

ADSB is invaluable for situational awareness anywhere when flying. So is the radio and me looking out. ADSB is just another tool.
 
One of the best things I did with ADS-B and my traffic display on the EFIS was to set limits to only show what's 2000 feet above me and 2000 feet below me. Reduces the clutter considerably!! Don't need to see that airliner climbing out at FL 230 when I'm 4000' agl.

mcdewey said:
Saturday, an experimental came up fast right behind me while I was setting up for the 45 to the pattern. I couldn't see him and he had just come out of the SFRA and wasn't talking on the Unicom yet. I saw him via ADSB. He finally made his position call, which I confirmed on the ADSB display. I reported where I was, said I was slow and he was coming up my butt. Without talking, he made a sharp turn, entered the base and landed while I was still on a 45. I could see him on final.
Click to expand...

I hate that rudeness. Twice in the last couple of months at my home drome (Cable), I've been on an extended left crosswind entry to the pattern (I'll announce when I'm over the San Antonio dam, and again when I'm over the 210 freeway) and aircraft have taken off precisely when that will (and did!) put us in close proximity near the crosswind/downwind junction. Geez, they couldn't wait 15 seconds to start their take-off roll? At that point' I'd be near or over the departure numbers, and there'd be no conflict. Impatience kills.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top