Adsb Vs Eyeballs in spotting aircraft called out by ATC

Discussion in 'Flight Following' started by ahypnoz, Jun 16, 2019.

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What percentage of flying aircraft do you spot vs what you see on ADSB-in when called out by ATC?

  1. I see many more flying aircraft with my own Eyeballs than I ever see with ADSB-in?

    1 vote(s)
    1.4%
  2. I know where many more flying aircraft are with ADSB, but rarely actually see them.

    26 vote(s)
    36.1%
  3. I see very few called out aircraft even after looking, and keep my head looking down in shame (ADSB)

    4 vote(s)
    5.6%
  4. I can not believe how many aircraft I visually can not see, even when I know exactly where they are

    40 vote(s)
    55.6%
  5. I use both ADSB and Eyeballs, but my Eyeballs are better when I have ADSB help

    29 vote(s)
    40.3%
  6. I do not use ADSB-in, pilots should be keeping there head up all the time and using their Eyeballs

    3 vote(s)
    4.2%
Multiple votes are allowed.
  1. ahypnoz

    ahypnoz Pre-takeoff checklist

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    On very long cross country trips, I listen to ATC "call out" traffic to other aircraft and then I listen to see if the other pilots actually sees the "called out" aircraft and respond to ATC that they have the other aircraft in sight. I make a running tally of aircraft called out by ATC and aircraft actually seen by the other pilots and responded back to ATC that the other aircraft has been seen. The numbers do not look good. I know that there are some pilots that see the other aircraft, but do not respond, but I am assuming most pilots that are advised of other aircraft by ATC will respond if/when they see the other aircraft. It looks like around 20% of called out aircraft are actually spotted during a en route flight and are identified verbally back to ATC. However, the number of aircraft "identified" is much higher when the other airplanes are in the pattern.

    I do have to say that my own personal percentage of spotted flying aircraft is pretty low of the "called out" aircraft by ATC, but my flight instructor has an uncanny ability to spot flying aircraft and he would have been A WWI ace.
     
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  2. RyanShort1

    RyanShort1 En-Route

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    Some call outs don't get acknowledged due to radio chatter.
     
  3. EdFred

    EdFred Touchdown! Greaser! PoA Supporter

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    I see more with my own eyes than show up on ADSB, however, that's a portable ADSB unit and does not pick up everything.
     
  4. frfly172

    frfly172 Touchdown! Greaser! PoA Supporter

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    Can’t believe all the airplanes that show up on adsb that I can’t see with my eyes.
     
  5. Shawn

    Shawn En-Route

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    I love ADSB as an aid to situational awareness. I see ADSB traffic on screen and am scanning for that target long before ATC even issues a traffic advisory...and often adjust course to even avoid needing a callout if we are converging.

    ADSB for me simply provides a more focused area of where to be looking for known target.
     
  6. kgruber

    kgruber En-Route

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    Is there something "official" to say to ATC when you have the traffic on ADSB, but not visually. It should NOT include the word "fishfinder!"
     
  7. JOhnH

    JOhnH Touchdown! Greaser! PoA Supporter

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    Spun Out
    Even when ATC calls it out, I usually can't find it. And if I do see it, it is not where ATC said it was.
    But if they call it out, and I then see it on ADSB, and THEN I look where ADSB says it is, well I'll be darned! There it is. (eventually. I can't see anything more than about 2 miles out).
     
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  8. Banjo33

    Banjo33 Line Up and Wait

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    Count me as another that sees traffic on ADSB long before detecting it visually, even knowing where to look. LOTS of aircraft out there that I likely wouldn’t have ever known were there. 99.9% isn’t a factor (big sky/small airplane), but I have adjusted flight path to avoid someone that I thought could potentially be a factor. Chances are extremely slim most of those were actually a collision hazard though, but who knows?

    Also, I know that ADSB wx (radar data) has an inherent delay (“old” image) and I use it for strategic flight planning and to help visually acquire and avoid t-storms, but I am frequently surprised at just how accurate it really is. It takes some effort to remind myself that it may be wrong and to treat it as such.
     
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  9. Checkout_my_Six

    Checkout_my_Six Final Approach

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    Isn't that what troller's say? :D
     
  10. ircphoenix

    ircphoenix En-Route

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    I have 20/15 vision and I'll be damned if I can spot damn near anything until it is off my left wing, .5 miles away and not a factor. That 20% sounds about right.
     
  11. Eric Stoltz

    Eric Stoltz Line Up and Wait

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    Oh how do I love hollerin "tally-ho!!" every time ATC calls traffic or when the wife points it out. I holler it especially slow and loud enough to over modulate my mic when flying the work planes. Makes me sound....

    This is all BS, I can't use that term and not feel like a total donkey. Sounds so lame when I hear another pilot use it. If I was flying a Spitfire I'd totally use it, even for no reason.
     
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  12. Kenny Phillips

    Kenny Phillips Pattern Altitude

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    I have used "no joy" several times, but only when asked how I was doing at the time.
     
    ircphoenix, Banjo33 and Challenged like this.
  13. donjohnston

    donjohnston Line Up and Wait

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    It's kind of difficult to answer the question of "What percentage of flying aircraft do you spot vs what you see on ADSB-in when called out by ATC? " when none of the answers have a percentage.

    Just sayin'
     
  14. midlifeflyer

    midlifeflyer Final Approach

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    At best ADS-B is great for traffic awareness. But I want to see the traffic with my eyeballs.
     
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  15. cgrab

    cgrab Pattern Altitude

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    My procedure tell ATC "Looking"
    Check ADS-B
    Look for aircraft
    Call ATC and say "No Joy" most of the time.
     
  16. chemgeek

    chemgeek Line Up and Wait

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    "Big sky" works better than "see and avoid." With ADS-B there is better situational awareness, and the reality is you probably won't see any traffic visually outside the 2 mile ring. With ADS-B, it's much easier to find aircraft visually within 2 miles, but not foolproof.

    ADS-B will encourage you to maintain altitude discipline for crossing traffic 500 feet above or below!
     
  17. Checkout_my_Six

    Checkout_my_Six Final Approach

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    good luck wit dat....;)
     
  18. 455 Bravo Uniform

    455 Bravo Uniform En-Route PoA Supporter

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    The idea of “ADSB head-down syndrome” is total BS. I fixate on it no more than I do any other instrument while VFR, maybe even much less. Glance at it for a sec to see what’s nearby and then play the eyeball game. If anything, it’s got my eyes outside more and I’m getting practiced at picking out a moving dot.
     
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  19. JOhnH

    JOhnH Touchdown! Greaser! PoA Supporter

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    Spun Out
    Me too. But it is a lot easier to put my eyeballs on the target, if I have a very good idea of WHERE the target is. When ATC says "3 Oclock", it might somewhere between 12:00 and 6:00 and 10 miles away.
     
  20. Jamie Kirk

    Jamie Kirk Pre-takeoff checklist

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    ATC is almost always off on their estimates. When they call traffic I almost always have it identified on the screen and looking before they warn.

    And if they warn me and I don’t have it insight I’ve told them I have them on the screen and I’m looking visually. They have always said thanks.
     
  21. midlifeflyer

    midlifeflyer Final Approach

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    That's exactly what I meant.
     
  22. AGLyme

    AGLyme Pre-Flight

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    ADSB is a valuable safety tool... saved me lots of times. For ex. taking off and there was a plane coming right at me using the opposite runway for a practice approach... he did not advise he was coming until I heard the "traffic"/"traffic" call out by the Dynon... He called when we were no more than 1/4 mile apart. I immediately turned right, and I could see him on the Dynon and I had the confidence that I was avoiding him.

    The other day I was coming into the pattern at my home airport and right in front of me was a Cub... he doesn't have ADSB... so, cannot rely solely on the ADSB that is for sure. Like all tools, they are not 100% foolproof.
     
  23. LoneAspen

    LoneAspen Line Up and Wait

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    Wow, I'm so glad to know it's not just me that has a hard time spotting other aircraft. As a student pilot, it's one of the things I struggle with. My instructor says it comes with time and practice. I hope he's right because I feel like an idiot always having to reply "looking for traffic" instead of "traffic in sight", or finally telling the controller I still don't have the traffic, and to please call my turns.
     
  24. jkgoblue

    jkgoblue Pre-takeoff checklist

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    Probably 80-90% of the time it’s “negative traffic”. ADS-b helps a lot and I’m sometimes amazed how much is out there that I don’t see. In the beginning I was somewhat freaked out by all the traffic.
    upload_2019-6-17_8-55-5.jpeg
     
  25. Salty

    Salty En-Route PoA Supporter

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    Maybe not you, but there was a thread recently where someone was using adsb while doing pattern work. I’m sorry, but IMO, in the pattern, your attention is much better spent looking outside.
     
  26. SixPapaCharlie

    SixPapaCharlie May the force be with you

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    I think "negative contact" is my most heavily used phrase when flying. I think people complaining about ADSB not helping are full of it.

    I have pretty good vision but I can never seem to spot the traffic.
     
  27. mcdewey

    mcdewey Pre-takeoff checklist

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    Saturday, an experimental came up fast right behind me while I was setting up for the 45 to the pattern. I couldn't see him and he had just come out of the SFRA and wasn't talking on the Unicom yet. I saw him via ADSB. He finally made his position call, which I confirmed on the ADSB display. I reported where I was, said I was slow and he was coming up my butt. Without talking, he made a sharp turn, entered the base and landed while I was still on a 45. I could see him on final.

    ADSB is invaluable for situational awareness anywhere when flying. So is the radio and me looking out. ADSB is just another tool.
     
  28. SoCal RV Flyer

    SoCal RV Flyer Pattern Altitude

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    One of the best things I did with ADS-B and my traffic display on the EFIS was to set limits to only show what's 2000 feet above me and 2000 feet below me. Reduces the clutter considerably!! Don't need to see that airliner climbing out at FL 230 when I'm 4000' agl.

    I hate that rudeness. Twice in the last couple of months at my home drome (Cable), I've been on an extended left crosswind entry to the pattern (I'll announce when I'm over the San Antonio dam, and again when I'm over the 210 freeway) and aircraft have taken off precisely when that will (and did!) put us in close proximity near the crosswind/downwind junction. Geez, they couldn't wait 15 seconds to start their take-off roll? At that point' I'd be near or over the departure numbers, and there'd be no conflict. Impatience kills.