ADS-B thoughts ?

Why can't this 1.7 oz box replace the transponder, ADS-B Transceiver and GPS Position Source in my certificated aircraft?
 
JohnAJohnson said:
Why can't this 1.7 oz box replace the transponder, ADS-B Transceiver and GPS Position Source in my certificated aircraft?
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Apparently the U.K. allows their similar box, and even allows is as a "portable".

http://www.uavionix.com/products/echo-att-20b/

I'm sure FAA will tell us all why we're all going to die if such miniaturized, portable and useful technology were used here. LOL.

Or. Not.
 
I am in no hurry to do the ads b update. The only thing that can happen over the next couple of years is more options.
 
arkvet said:
I am in no hurry to do the ads b update. The only thing that can happen over the next couple of years is more options.
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This is true,, almost every pilot I know is waiting to see what finally shakes out.
 
German guy said:
Wow, this thing looks amazing!
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Well it looks small anyway. But amazing is a bit much, considering we all type messages on pocket computers with microwave transmitters inside them that are light years ahead of the packaging and electronics in most avionics.
 
I wonder if this is FAA approved. There have been others that made the same claim, and they didn't pan out. The FAA has mentioned portable ADS-B out will never happen on a few occasions. Also, they're selling ad space on their website... If they pull it off, great, you can't put panel mount stuff on a drone. I wouldn't want drone stuff on my panel. All good.

Between being able to afford this, and the power it consumes I wouldn't expect it to pop up on your screen anytime soon. Having said that, if there are drones more than 500' AGL and my Garmin filtered them out until I was within 500' I wouldn't mind at all.
 
JonH said:
I wonder if this is FAA approved. There have been others that made the same claim, and they didn't pan out. The FAA has mentioned portable ADS-B out will never happen on a few occasions. Also, they're selling ad space on their website... If they pull it off, great, you can't put panel mount stuff on a drone. I wouldn't want drone stuff on my panel. All good.

Between being able to afford this, and the power it consumes I wouldn't expect it to pop up on your screen anytime soon. Having said that, if there are drones more than 500' AGL and my Garmin filtered them out until I was within 500' I wouldn't mind at all.
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That's the interesting thing about the little box and the U.K. authorizing it even in aircraft. (The link I shared).

If FAA says they won't approve tiny little so-called "portable" ADS-B devices for drones, especially larger ones, as they start to allow those to become commercially regulated -- the entire "NexGen" concept loses credibility. If drones can't participate, what's the point of the entire system?

If they allow the little "portable" ADS-B devices to participate from drones, they lose credibility on the whole "portables are not good enough in airplanes" stance.

I hope someone miniaturizes one down to the size of a credit card plus antennas and sells it for $29 just to annoy the holy hell out of these guys who can't keep the official story straight because it makes no sense.

The actual tech "jobs" an ADS-B device does simply aren't that difficult. It's certification that adds all the cost.

A low powered 900 MHz transmitter hooked to any of a slew of cheap GPS chipsets that does nothing but transmit location, should be about a $100 device in the modern world, in any quantity. Maybe $200 retail.

Strap the thing in the tail back near the useless 121.5 ELT, stick a 900 MHz quarter wave outside, and wire it through a fuse to the battery. Done. Regulatory requirement to transmit location, accomplished.

Can still receive on a Stratux if you want to see others.

All missions accomplished. Send and receive. Cheap. Simple. Works.

$5000 for the same functionality is ridiculous. But tech and pricing just march on by whenever someone slaps the label "avionics" on it.

In the case of actual avionics, this may make some sense. In the case of transmitting one's GPS location, hell, I've been doing that since the early 90s with packet radio at 1200 baud with a modem that I breadboarded on veroboard myself that consisted of one chip and a couple of jellybean components and a DOS box.

The tech behind ADS-B isn't new and it isn't hard. It's only hard in FAA land.
 
arkvet said:
I am in no hurry to do the ads b update. The only thing that can happen over the next couple of years is more options.
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I hope you are correct, but there's only 35 months left to develop, certify, market and deliver for install any new alternatives.

Further, the entrenched players such as Garmin own the new build market (there is no upside for a manufacturer such as Cirrus to change now), and the retrofit market is a steadily shrinking pool of remaining airplanes. That has to give pause to anyone contemplating a new ADS-B Out product.

There might be attrition of small market share suppliers after 01/01/20
 
JohnAJohnson said:
Why can't this 1.7 oz box replace the transponder, ADS-B Transceiver and GPS Position Source in my certificated aircraft?
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It very well could.....remember there are orders of magnitude more UAS or drones than there are manned aircraft. This means lots of volume for the manufacturer to amortize his non-recurring engineering costs. If this little thingy meets the performance parameter requirements....I see no reason this can't be a low cost solution for our aircraft.

Also, as a footnote, at the CES conference a few weeks ago the chip makers (Intel, AMD, Qualcom, etc....) were discussing new chip set features.....and their new phone chips sets, used in everything from household appliances to phones, will have GPS functionality with greater accuracy than certified aviation chip sets....to within 1 cm. vs meters. They will also have a full set of three axis accelerometers. The two capabilities will revolutionize our devices....with cheap improved performance. I see our glass boxes getting cheaper in the next 5 - 10 years.
 
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Checkout_my_Six said:
It very well could.....remember there are orders of magnitude more UAS or drones than there are manned aircraft. This means lots of volume for the manufacturer to amortize his non-recurring engineering costs. If this little thingy meets the performance parameter requirements....I see no reason this can't be a low cost solution for our aircraft.

Also, as a footnote, at the CES conference a few weeks ago the chip makers (Intel, AMD, Qualcom, etc....) were discussing new chip set features.....and their new phone chips sets, used in everything from household appliances to phones, will have GPS functionality with greater accuracy than certified aviation chip sets....to within 1 cm. vs meters. They will also have a full set of three axis accelerometers. The two capabilities will revolutionize our devices....with cheap improved performance. I see our glass boxes getting cheaper in the next 5 - 10 years.
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The certification process will ensure it is no longer a low cost option for our aircraft. :(

Our glass boxes will get cheaper, but only if we hang them off the yoke, velcro them to the glareshield or hold them in our lap. Installing them in the panel will immediately cause heart palpitations back at the undrained swamp.:eek:
 
GRG55 said:
The certification process will ensure it is no longer a low cost option for our aircraft. :(

Our glass boxes will get cheaper, but only if we hang them off the yoke, velcro them to the glareshield or hold them in our lap. Installing them in the panel will immediately cause heart palpitations back at the undrained swamp.:eek:
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let's hope the certification process adapts to new more capable technologies.....let's see. I'm optimistic but, it takes time to turn the titanic.

We have NORSEE....that can be expanded....IMHO.
 
Maybe when Trump removes 75% of government regulations...

(Just quoting something I saw online today. I didn't bother reading beyond the headline. Don't shoot the messenger. :) )
 
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