ADS-B decision

Discussion in 'Avionics and Upgrades' started by MountainDude, Feb 28, 2019.

  1. Jim_CAK

    Jim_CAK Pre-takeoff checklist PoA Supporter

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  2. Flybuddy

    Flybuddy Pre-Flight

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    I believe the OP is looking for a 1090 out as he has some international flying plans. The Skybeacon is 978.
     
  3. Jesse Saint

    Jesse Saint Pre-takeoff checklist

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    The Stratus ESG is $3,000 installed in my shop right now. The ES is $2,800 installed.
     
  4. MBDiagMan

    MBDiagMan En-Route

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    Does that include the 3i? Even without it that is worth the money.
     
  5. hindsight2020

    hindsight2020 En-Route

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    Got a link? Btw Define the "caribbean". It's hardly a monolith. Genuinely curious though, as I'm interested in hopping back and forth one of these days hopefully before I hit social security age..... :D
     
  6. Jesse Saint

    Jesse Saint Pre-takeoff checklist

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    The 3i is +$600.
     
  7. Doug Reid

    Doug Reid Pre-takeoff checklist

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    Hi Jeff:

    Where are you located ?
     
  8. Jesse Saint

    Jesse Saint Pre-takeoff checklist

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    If you meant Jesse, I’m in north FL at X35.
     
  9. Doug Reid

    Doug Reid Pre-takeoff checklist

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    Sorry, Jesse... Thanks !
     
  10. flyingcheesehead

    flyingcheesehead Touchdown! Greaser!

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    Nope - Sold it to a guy in Madison a few weeks ago.
     
  11. flyingcheesehead

    flyingcheesehead Touchdown! Greaser!

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    Meh... I don't know that any of them are solidly 1090 only, because I don't think the rules are 100% final yet. The Bahamas, in particular, seems to keep changing their mind on what will be required, if anything, and when. I hadn't heard about Canada's potential "diversity" requirement until this week, here on PoA, so I might need to go back for another antenna off the 345 myself! :(

    But, we went dual band specifically to make sure that we can go where we want regardless of how the chips fall, as the tentative plans I've heard for several other countries in North America have been 1090-only. If you don't mind installing a Skybeacon and then pulling it off to install something else later, not as big a deal.
     
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  12. MountainDude

    MountainDude Pre-Flight

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    $1995 for GDL82, $144 for shop supplies (???), and 16 hours of labor ($1656) = $3800. Oh, it says we must have GDL69 (which we don't). With it, it's $4220 plus 16 hours of labor.
     
  13. Ryan Klems

    Ryan Klems Pre-Flight

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    The GDL69 is XM weather, what in the world does that have to do with a GDL82 install?
     
  14. Raymo

    Raymo Pre-takeoff checklist

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    The wattage output required in the US is 250, which only applies to the transponder, not to the ADS-B transmission.
     
  15. idahoflier

    idahoflier Pre-takeoff checklist

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    That is a great deal!
     
  16. danhagan

    danhagan Pattern Altitude

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    That explains it ... we have their satellite down here.
     
  17. NordicDave

    NordicDave Line Up and Wait

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    Totally agree. Many are not aware that most of the ADS-B options that attach to an existing transponder are much lower power output than the transponder. This was one of the reasons I went with the GTX-345 to get a full 240 watts for ADS-B output. I frequently fly in airspace with small and large jets. The extra signal reach was an important safety concern for me to be seen at a longer distance for other faster aircraft.

    -David
     
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  18. Lawson Laslo

    Lawson Laslo Pre-Flight

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    id go with stratus in and out
    thats what we are installing in my ercoupe
     
  19. IK04

    IK04 Pre-takeoff checklist

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    I have made my decision.

    I will not fly in airspace requiring ADS-B out.

    My airplane doesn't even have a NAV receiver...
     
  20. Raymo

    Raymo Pre-takeoff checklist

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    I'll have to look into this assumption. The transponder is on a different frequency than ADS-B so I'm not sure they both transmit at the same wattage. It makes sense that the extended squitter data, which carries the ADS-B information would be carried along with the transponder information. Hmmm...
     
  21. Mtns2Skies

    Mtns2Skies Super Moderator Management Council Member PoA Supporter

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    Thanks for posting this. I was afraid of UAT solely because of fear that it wouldn't be allowed in Canada, which is really the only international country I'd be going in my plane. This significantly alleviates that concern.
     
  22. MBDiagMan

    MBDiagMan En-Route

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    Flying without even having OUT is akin to driving around at night without so much as your parking lights on. If you have OUT you at least have your park lights on so others can see you. If you add IN then you also have your headlights on and you can see others.
     
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  23. EdFred

    EdFred Touchdown! Greaser! PoA Supporter

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    So you want to retrofit all the aircraft without electrical systems. You offering to pay for it?

    None of this ADS-B stuff is about safety, or finding other planes. That's not what the S stands for in ADS-B.

    You think the feds give a crap about whether a bunch of piston 91 guys smash into each other? No, it's so they can watch us.
     
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  24. MBDiagMan

    MBDiagMan En-Route

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    Hmmm..... where did I say anything like that? I simply made an analogy about how ADS-B works. Would you like to punch the other cheek? I’m doing my best to understand how having knowledge, even partial knowledge about the traffic in your area as well as onboard weather is such a bad thing. Are they out to get you? What are you doing that you you feel you must hide?
     
    Last edited: Mar 13, 2019
  25. EdFred

    EdFred Touchdown! Greaser! PoA Supporter

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    It's no one's business where I am or am not going, and with ADS-B the whole world knows when I'm not home.
     
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  26. lancie00

    lancie00 Pre-takeoff checklist

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    Don't you then have to have a transponder check completed by an avionics shop?
     
  27. flyingcheesehead

    flyingcheesehead Touchdown! Greaser!

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    In some ways, I'm regretting not leaving our existing transponder in place and adding a GDL 88 to it with anonymous mode enabled (so I could still get traffic and weather) as well as putting in the GTX 345, so I'd have the ability to squawk 1200 and fly around without big brother in the right seat.

    Of course, for me, it's mainly so that my mom doesn't text me every time the plane goes up asking where I'm flying. :rofl:
     
  28. MBDiagMan

    MBDiagMan En-Route

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    If you’re wanting stealthy movement, I think it would be better to drive. Kind of hard to hide where you’re going when you fly. I don’t cheat on my wife or engage in illegal activity of any kind so flying works well for me.
     
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  29. texasclouds

    texasclouds Line Up and Wait

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    Yup, Sancho has a Flight Aware subscription.
     
  30. flyingcheesehead

    flyingcheesehead Touchdown! Greaser!

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    I took Ed's implication to mean that if someone were to want to engage in illegal activity at his house, they no longer need to stake it out to tell that he's not home - They can sign up for an alert from FlightAware (like my mom did with my plane!) and definitively know that he's not home, and how far from home he is!

    There are some groups working on the privacy issues with ADS-B at least:
    http://interactive.aviationtoday.com/what-is-the-answer-to-business-aviations-ads-b-privacy-concern/
    https://www.aopa.org/news-and-media/all-news/2018/december/13/aopa-pushing-ads-b-privacy-forward
     
  31. hindsight2020

    hindsight2020 En-Route

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    You mean Chris, or Hayden.....
     
  32. Morgan3820

    Morgan3820 Cleared for Takeoff

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    It was a great deal. Jesse installed it in half a day at my schedule and convenience
     
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  33. EdFred

    EdFred Touchdown! Greaser! PoA Supporter

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    Winner Winner tastes like chicken dinner. I'm going to have issues with my transponder breaker routinely.
     
    Last edited: Mar 13, 2019
  34. MBDiagMan

    MBDiagMan En-Route

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    In that case, time for some High Voltage warning signs and befriend an armed neighbor. My Son in law is right across the creek. There is a sign in his reloading room that reads “ Warning! Due to the rising cost of ammunition, don’t expect a warning shot!”
     
  35. kyleb

    kyleb En-Route PoA Supporter

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    How many midairs were there last year? OK, how about the year before?

    The reality is ADS-B out (which is the mandated portion) doesn't offer much to the GA flyer.
     
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  36. MBDiagMan

    MBDiagMan En-Route

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    And you’re telling me this because?

    ADS-B out allows you to be seen by those who choose to monitor ADS-B. Of course it makes it easier for those black helicopters to see you too.

    I prefer to have all the help I can get including traffic and maybe more importantly, in flight weather. For those who don’t want it, GREAT! It’s a free country. Install it or not.

    If you don’t like my analogy that is my effort to explain out and in, fine. I wasn’t trying to sell it to anyone, I was merely trying to make an analogy. Read it or not. Agree with it or not.

    For some of you it sounds as if you think they’re out to get you. Do you see black helicopters hovering outside your hangar?
     
    Last edited: Mar 13, 2019
  37. kyleb

    kyleb En-Route PoA Supporter

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    In flight weather isn't part of the mandate and can be had for the cost of a $150 Stratux. You aren't getting much value for the other $1500-$5k. You'd be safer spending those bucks on recurrent training...
     
  38. MBDiagMan

    MBDiagMan En-Route

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    I get plenty of training.

    It really confuses me to see people imply that ADS-B makes us less safe. Please explain how that can be. I am not telling you how to spend your money. Why are you so insistent on telling me how I should spend mine?

    I have had a Stratux for a couple of years. It doesn’t broadcast my position to others and only puts traffic and weather on my iPad. It’s not installed permanently in and powered by my panel. It’s a cheap, flimsy piece of gear at best with loose wires to deal with. When I am flying on instruments I don’t see my iPad. I do see my 430 though and have seen traffic that was pretty close and only a few hundred feet below me.

    Are those black helicopters still hovering?
     
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  39. Groundpounder

    Groundpounder Line Up and Wait

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    What is your hat size? I have a nice tin foil derby to send you.
     
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  40. kyleb

    kyleb En-Route PoA Supporter

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    I don't think anyone has argued that it reduces safety. I'm of the opinion that the added safety from ADS-B out is so small, there are better places to spend your money if safety is your concern.

    I have no idea where the black helicopter comment comes from. Is it that hard to disagree politely?