Actual ifr question

EdFred said:
Yeah because getting a pop up is such a wrench in the system it's going to make us fall out of the sky and crash.
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No, getting a pop up is okay, it's using a handheld GPS while IFR that will make us fall out of the sky and crash. :stirpot:
 
EdFred said:
Seven.
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makes since with your avatar

kind of funny, because I have a little girl that is 7 and she loves to talk about her daddy's plane as well, and her pink headsets
 
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roncachamp said:
No, getting a pop up is okay, it's using a handheld GPS while IFR that will make us fall out of the sky and crash. :stirpot:
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That and flying VFR. I mean...can you imagine flying 4,200+ miles on an across the country trip and only being "in the system" for an hour? And air filing to be in it no less! Cats and dogs living together! Pigs flying! Oh the huge manatee!
 
Are you really current? You don't sound proficient....

With that said, you really shouldnt be practicing in actual. Maybe you and your buddy should practice with a hood for a while.
 
flyboy1 said:
sounds like people shoot practice approaches locally in the soup without filing beforehand. but what about 91.173? so, if i can get a hold of approach before entering soup and request to shoot practice approaches IFR then i do NOT need to file before?? And, if i will not be able to contact before hand i need to file and also get a clearance before taking off.

Can i get that clearance at the same time filing the flight or do i need to call back before takeoff?

Thanks guys. I am rusty with radio/clearnace procedures before an Instrument flight
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I admit my first impression to the question was "OMG! Two instrument pilots, neither of which knows the procedure to start an IFR flight!"

But, in truth, the procedures for practice approaches under IFR can differ pretty widely from place to place. "Local IFR" where one simply calls CD and says they wanna go up and practice can be standard in some areas, while the formal filing of a full flight plan may be required in others. On top of that I've noticed that the problem of not knowing what to do and how is worse in areas with normally clear weather where practice approaches are rarely done under IFR anyway. It's not at all uncommon for people to get rusty.

To answer your question, it depends. Filing before hand is never improper. Not filing beforehand may be standard in some places. And pol-up clearances can be workload-based.

If you're really rusty you =want= to practice filing real flight plans, and getting real pop-ups, and getting clearances on the ground with void times and...
 
TMetzinger said:
If you treat every flight under IFR the same way you'd treat an IFR flight across the country, you'll develop good habits and behave in a way that ATC is ready to handle.
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I disagree with this - there are many ways to legitimately use the IFR system. A good CFII should teach them all. There may be preferences, but familiariaty with all options should be taught (duats, calling FSS, TEC, airfiling with ATC, airfiling with FSS..etc).

While I typically prefer to file a full flight plan in advance for x-countries, there are times when it makes complete sense to fly VFR and then get a pop-up clearance for the approach at my destination.

For example, a common trip for me is Prescott, AZ to San Diego. Almost always VMC enroute with a possible marine layer at the destination. If I make the flight IFR, I cannot go direct (too many MOAs at the min IFR altitude). If I go VFR, I can go direct well below the floor of the MOAs,but below effective ATC radio/radar coverage and save at least 20 min flying time. Now, if the marine layer has come in as I approach the San Diego area, I can contact SoCal approach nearing the Class B and make my pop-up request. This doesn't work as well in all areas of the country, but they are pretty accomodating in the SoCal area.
 
A local ifr is filing a flight plan. I use this all time for approaches or an ifr flight within the tracon.just beacause you didnt file with fss fltplan.com or whatever doesnt make you illegal ..thats ridiculous
 
TMetzinger said:
Jeffrey.... (based on your avatar and the Bill Cosby routine)
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CLASSIC
Love that routine. Was the first audio cassette I owned. Finally saw it on HBO or Showtime a couple months ago.

Still hilarious, and clean.
 
EdFred said:
CLASSIC
Love that routine. Was the first audio cassette I owned. Finally saw it on HBO or Showtime a couple months ago.

Still hilarious, and clean.
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Yep... I did "Chocolate Cake for Breakfast" the other day for someone who'd never heard it. Even with my low level of talent - they were laughing so hard they had tears.

Cosby really did some amazing stuff. "Fat Albert's Car" with the airplane engine comes to mind, and "Buck, Buck".... "Bring out........Fat Albert!"
 
Milk! Milk is in chocolate cake! That's nutrition!

And then SHE came down......
 
roncachamp said:
You can't go wrong by filing in advance. While that may not be required the tower might respond to your request by directing you to call FSS. Rather inconvenient if you're sitting in the airplane with the engine running. Since it's so easy to file online and you obviously have a computer I recommend that you do so.
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midlifeflyer said:
I admit my first impression to the question was "OMG! Two instrument pilots, neither of which knows the procedure to start an IFR flight!"

But, in truth, the procedures for practice approaches under IFR can differ pretty widely from place to place. "Local IFR" where one simply calls CD and says they wanna go up and practice can be standard in some areas, while the formal filing of a full flight plan may be required in others. On top of that I've noticed that the problem of not knowing what to do and how is worse in areas with normally clear weather where practice approaches are rarely done under IFR anyway. It's not at all uncommon for people to get rusty.

To answer your question, it depends. Filing before hand is never improper. Not filing beforehand may be standard in some places. And pol-up clearances can be workload-based.

If you're really rusty you =want= to practice filing real flight plans, and getting real pop-ups, and getting clearances on the ground with void times and...
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Most places I've been expect you to file a flight plan, get a clearance, and make your requests for the particular approaches with ATC. I've found that a "local" TRACON that's co-located with a Class C airport is often more flexible than a consolidated TRACON or Center. Still, I've never had a problem when I filed a flt plan and included "multiple practice approaches" in the comments.

If you're based in the DC SFRA you have to file anyway, so the procedure is locked-in.

I heard an aircraft get turned down one time at KERV when Center told them that they wouldn't allow practice approaches under IFR (it was IMC that day). Center was also pretty busy that day. I had filed back to San Antonio and got my clearance immediately. If it's busy and you're tying up airspace at a one-in, one-out field you can expect to not receive a good reaction from ATC - or you can expect a long hold.
 
What Tim said. When we practice multiple approaches in actual conditions at local airports we will file from KXYZ to KXYZ and enter the local airports where we plan to shoot approaches into the route. In the comments we add "multiple practice approaches".

Bob
 
If you can do a tower enroute there is no need to file. Otherwise just file.
 
Ron Levy said:
That's true for the NorCal/SoCal TEC routes, but in the Northeast Corridor, where a regular IFR flight plan still must be filed.
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Isn't it nice that this federalized system is consistent nationwide?:rolleyes:
 
gprellwitz said:
Isn't it nice that this federalized system is consistent nationwide?:rolleyes:
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When ever the Federal government standardizes anything they always use the worst possible standard. They'ed probably require you to file IFR for every flight. just like the EU. and the military
 
This is a great thread. I have limited IFR time and benefit greatly from the comments presented here.

Someone mentioned earlier in the thread that we should be careful with our comments so as not to deter folks from sharing their questions.
I would second that opinion.

I'm certain that I could figure out how to go out and shoot approaches in IMC. Having said that, it is still great to see how everyone else does it.
 
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andybean said:
I'm certain that I could figure out how to go out and shoot approaches in IMC.
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Please remember that as discussed above, the issue for logging for currency is not whether it's IMC, but whether it's "actual instrument conditions." IMC only decides whether or not you have to be operating under IFR, not whether you can log it for currency.
 
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