Accelerated ifr

muddy00

muddy00

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muddy00
Just curious everyone's thoughts in accelerated ifr programs. And if anyone on here offered them.
 
No matter how you prepare for the check-ride, you still gotta have 40 hours of instrument time.

If you've got most of the prerequisites done and just want to finish it off, an accelerated program might be a cost effective way to do it.
 
Yes, there are some CFIIs here that offer accelerated IR.
Ron & Scott come to mind, not sure if I am right. Just wait for them to chime in.
 
If you can do it accelerated, do it.

I'm about to take my checkride. It's taken me about 2.5 months (and that's really fast actually). I'm pretty worn out with the hood and so ready to be done.

I'd of much rather done it all in 10 days if I could of. You also know that the accelerated programs have a very good handle on exactly what you need to focus on.
 
I did a 10 IFR at American Flyers. Was very very intense! It was 8 hours at the school house, a few hours of homework every day for 10 days. It can be done but I wouldn't try it unless I left home to get away from distractions. That's actually how I did it. But I passed my checkride 2 years ago and enjoy IFR flying. The only IFR knowledge I had going in was what I got from the written. If I had not accomplished the written first it would have been 12 to 13 days. Go for it!
 
There are lots of threads about this topic already here on PoA. A search will find you lots of opinions for and against.

I took an accelerated program to get my IR, primarily because my work schedule wasn't conducive to regularly weekly training, but I could carve out a 2-week vacation window. It worked well for me. I spent a long time beforehand reading IFR-related training books and was intimately familiar with my panel GPS unit before the instructor arrived, which helped tremendously.

Since the initial training, I have maintained a recurrent training program with my CFII and his sim rig; I spend a couple of hours with him every 2-4 months. It helps a lot to keep my skills from atrophying.
 
I did my IFR with the 10 day PIC course. Also did my PPL with Tailwheels on accelerated.

I would say all depends on the student's learning style and capabilities. Full immersion accelerated programs are NOT for everyone. I have seen several fail miserably trying. Most broke down mentally. If you can work under pretty high stress workloads and dedicated focus on NOTHING else than the IFR training for a solids 10 days than you can pull it off. If you are the more take things in stride and need some decompression and "me" time in your life...might wanna think otherwise!
 
I did a very long IFR cross country Sunday. 5.8 hours Hobbs.

It was planned much shorter than that, but the plan went out the window real fast when NorCal refused my first approach (STS ILS 32) and I had to do an extra approach to get a precision non-GPS approach in. All my approaches were on the "wrong" side because of prevailing winds, though the plan didn't look anything like that. Fire TFRs didn't help; we ended up changing the destination (it had been WLW, now it was UKI because it has a LOC approach).

I can't imagine doing that every day for 10 days. Good God I was beat at the end of that.

So, I'd say, if you really want to do the accelerated thing, make sure you REALLY want to.
 
It's good if you want to get your IFR knocked out. Be mentally prepared to eat, sleep, and breathe aviation. You are going to be exhausted after every day.
 
That's my game plan train hard 3-4x a week with a CFII take the written in 2 weeks than finish in two months.
 
I live in the Chicago area and my local flight school just will not budge on doing an accelerated program for my ATP. So, I'm headed to FL to do an accelerated program of sorts -- only flying about 3 to 3 1/2 hrs per day. Nevertheless, it gets me out of Chicago so I can concentrate on the training.
 
I would get the written done ahead of time, but if you can swing it both mentally and financially, I would recommend it.
 
JasonM said:
I would get the written done ahead of time
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That is usually a per-requesite before starting any true accelerated program...at least all the programs I researched when looking to go that route.
 
Shawn said:
That is usually a per-requesite before starting any true accelerated program...at least all the programs I researched when looking to go that route.
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Yep they wanted that done before starting the 10 day program. And in that case I recommend sheppardair.
 
I did it with PIC. They were great and it saved me time. 11 days did what 5 years of start and stop training had not accomplished.
 
In comment to Needles - and the FBO's wonder why their students are vanishing.
When I ran my businesses for 50+ years the customer was King.
And any employee who could not grasp that became an ex-employee rather abruptly.
 
stratobee said:
I did it with PIC. They were great and it saved me time. 11 days did what 5 years of start and stop training had not accomplished.
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Ditto. I even got a couple of days off for good behavior.
 
MAKG1 said:
I did a very long IFR cross country Sunday. 5.8 hours Hobbs.
...
I can't imagine doing that every day for 10 days. Good God I was beat at the end of that.

So, I'd say, if you really want to do the accelerated thing, make sure you REALLY want to.
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I didn't spend anywhere near that amount of time in the plane every day during my accelerated training (with PIC). Averaged to a little over 3 hrs per day. Lots of simulator work, though. (Some logged with the CFII, some just extra practice by myself.)
 
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Jim_R said:
I didn't spend anywhere near that amount of time in the plane every day during my accelerated training (with PIC). Averaged to a little over 3 hrs per day. Lots of simulator work, though. (Some logged with the CFII, some just extra practice by myself.)
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Yep my longest day in the plane was the long 250nm flight which I logged 4.9 hours. Most days were around 3 to 3.5 hrs in the plane. The mornings were usually academics and sim time and the afternoons flying. Now I did spend most nights planning xc's only to start the flight and approach had different plans on how to get there. So yeah plans go out the window pretty much daily. Lots of good experiences for sure. Had I don't it at home I would likely have not finished or taken years. But it is a lot of info coming at you fast. Day 3 I was wondering what I got myself into and worried about finishing. By day 5 it was coming together and I felt slightly more comfortable.
 
I've done them, I usually shoot for 3 flights per day with the person. One in the morning and two in the evening, with me assigning studying to be done in the afternoon. This makes for about 5 hours of flying per day.
 
For my IFR 10 day program...almost all my days were ground school in the early AM, go up and fly for a few hours, pick an airport to land and have lunch and debrief, right back up for a few hours then home for a quick recap and ground school, dinner then homework for the next day.

Averaged 4.5-5.5 on the Hobbs each day of flying. There were a few with less due to Sim work or full ground school but that as only two of the days.
 
muddy00 said:
Just curious everyone's thoughts in accelerated ifr programs. And if anyone on here offered them.
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Personally I did mine in a week, all 40 hrs. As far as burning in motor skills and procedures I think it is the best method because it is your sole focus through a week's worth of sleep cycles, and that is when we put short term memory into long term. If it's all you do all day and all you have to really think about it forms better. I constantly amaze myself and my buddy/CFII when I do my IPCs that within minutes of putting on the hood, even after years of no IFR flying, I still do it well. I never expect it to come back as easily as it does and I think this saves most GA pilots well since most of us only use IFR occasionally.

There is a caveat though. When I did my IR it was in a 172 with a single Kx 170B and an ADF in the panel so there was no learning curve to the avionics package. Modern avionics are a mixed bag, they provide a lot more information and combine several tasks, however to fully utilize their IFR features is a major learning curve as well. If you are trying to learn the avionics package, especially the old series 430/530/1000 Garmin stuff at the same time you are trying to learn everything else, you'll be seriously increasing your workload to a potentially unmanageable level, and if you are signed on for an accelerated IR course like through PIC and discover your knowledge base lacking there's no chance (without compensation) to take a couple of days off for remedial avionics study.

So all in all, I think it's a good idea, however if you choose to do so, I would suggest that you be fully prepared on the avionics package before you start. There are plenty of good resources for teaching the intricacies of the avionics, so that's not really a problem as long as you have the foresight to use them and be prepared beforehand.

It's a kind of brutal experience, I can't say it was pleasant, but I did have some fun, it was fulfilling, and it still holds as effective.
 
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Well said Henning especially the newer fancy Garmin 750/650 these still drive me batty but I'm good on using the older 440/530 stack.
 
Blueangel said:
Well said Henning especially the newer fancy Garmin 750/650 these still drive me batty but I'm good on using the older 440/530 stack.
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That's one of the reasons I decided to go with Garmin Pilot on my iPad, the interface similarities.
 
Chrisj13 said:
http://www.gatts.org/
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These guys are great. I, as a CFII, couldn't finish up a student and the two of us went to Greater Manhattan, KS (about 150 miles W of KC) and in a week my student obtained his IR. They are fixed price (generally it's best to use your own aircraft) and the price includes unlimited instruction, hotel and car. Jason is the dude to talk with and knows his instrument instruction inside and out / his father, Dale, started the biz. The town is actually a university town, so there's plenty to do in the pm if you're not doing some light studying.
 
Any knowledge on IFR Now (ifr6.com) out of Charleston SC?

Hope this does not end up as a double post, as I tried earlier but it did not show up.
 
I did mine over several months, with a local CFII, and it worked, and with the King's ground school package. But I wished I'd gone somewhere, been immersed, and did it that way.

If you know the avionics you'll be using, you can usually download simulation software, and get up to speed on the boxes in advance. Garmin also has "how to" videos that are pretty good - I especially like the 430/530 video. I go back to it to polish up a bit, and you can do the sim in parallel with the video, have them both open, and do what the instructor is doing at the same time...

And if you'll be using Garmins, but haven't before, it's a fairly steep curve to master them in detail. Not/not intuitive at all, but they are consistent across models, to a large degree. In fairness, I think some of the clunkiness is FAA mandated.
 
jesse said:
I've done them, I usually shoot for 3 flights per day with the person. One in the morning and two in the evening, with me assigning studying to be done in the afternoon. This makes for about 5 hours of flying per day.
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^^ heh. He calls midnight to 2AM "evening"... :)

Just kidding Jesse. I still can't believe you managed to move buildings at work in the same week we did that. Haha. or whatever the heck was going on. I forget. You guys were busy.

Worked out pretty well in the end. I'm such a night owl that it didn't get too painful. :)
 
I think flying is the perfect way to really learn your avionics. Book study is good and should be done, but it's not really learned until you are able to recall it, on your own, in flight. No substitute for just doing it and that stuff doesn't take long to learn. If you were flying a lot in an accelerated program you'd learn it and wouldn't forget it during that time.

That said, I also recommend training in an airplane with avionics similar to what you'll ultimately use in actual. For example, I wouldn't train in a GNS-equipped plane if you know you'll be flying a GTN more often. Train like you fight and fight like you train... or get more training before flying the new box.
 
As someone who switches between a GNS430, a GTN650/750, a G1000, and none of the above regularly, they aren't different enough to worry about that.

The main difference is that the GTN has airways, and you attack everything through the "home" button.

The flight planning process is identical except for airways, and the procedures button works the same.

There is a good GNS650/750 iPad app sim. The Garmin 400-series sim works (and the price is right) with compatibility mode, on a PC. And the $25 G1000 sim is virtually mandatory (it works best with two monitors).

The only GPS I've run across that doesn't cross-train easily is the Apollo GX-55. It's amazing how much brain-hurt a circular menu can cause.
 
I think flying is a horrible way to learn anything - it's the worst classroom in the world, way too many distractions.

Using the avionics during flight is an excellent way to become proficient at them. But you have to know in advance.

On the original topic, I don't have first hand experience - but my impression of the immersion programs is somewhat akin to puppy mills, high volume with mixed quality. I know there have to be good ones out there, but I couldn't tell which ones are good.
 
jesse said:
I've done them, I usually shoot for 3 flights per day with the person. One in the morning and two in the evening, with me assigning studying to be done in the afternoon. This makes for about 5 hours of flying per day.
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Sent you a pm Jesse
 
BigBadLou said:
Yes, there are some CFIIs here that offer accelerated IR.
Ron & Scott come to mind, not sure if I am right. Just wait for them to chime in.
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Ron is no longer on POA; not sure which Scott you are referring to. You will find Ron on the AOPA Forum or at rblevy@mindspring.com. He has taught accelerated courses for PIC for many years.

Bob Gardner
 
AlanM said:
These guys are great. I, as a CFII, couldn't finish up a student and the two of us went to Greater Manhattan, KS (about 150 miles W of KC) and in a week my student obtained his IR. They are fixed price (generally it's best to use your own aircraft) and the price includes unlimited instruction, hotel and car. Jason is the dude to talk with and knows his instrument instruction inside and out / his father, Dale, started the biz. The town is actually a university town, so there's plenty to do in the pm if you're not doing some light studying.
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I did GATTS too. No complaints. Would recommend.
 
I have about 15 hours into my IFR rating and I'm considering finishing up after passing the written with an intense two week program to get it done. That say I can buy and fly my new plane home using my rating on a schedule without too many delays. I've been too busy at work during the week lately and my current CFII has limited availability on weekends.
 
dans2992 said:
Why did Ron leave?
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Too many nasty personal attacks on his way of providing answers to posters, and lack of support by the forum administrators.

Bob
 
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