[A]Why is the...[A]

Sac Arrow

Sac Arrow

Touchdown! Greaser!
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Snorting his way across the USA
Superbowl TFR the size of the DC SFRA? Holy mother of Christ it's huge.
 
Doesn't this prove that the current stadium TFR's are useless?
 
holy monkey-needs-a-ride-from-alabama that's a big TFR!
 
Wait, the Super Bowl is today?

Nevermind. I googled Super Bowl TFR and saw the AOPA site from 2014.
 
Just govt giving the illusion,that they can keep us safe,they also like to impress everyone with the power they can yield.
 
Hope you folks aren't planning on actually GOING anywhere that day :)
 
Because massive wastes of natural resources must be accompanied by an equally sized TFR?
 
Stingray Don said:
Interesting article on how they plan to keep the skies above the Superbowl safe from invading Cessnas...

http://www.popularmechanics.com/mil...tice-intercept-procedures-for-the-super-bowl/
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I'm involved with this, so I can't say much.

Let's leave it as that article is missing a few things. Errant Cessnas are probably what will occupy their time, but they are not the point.

Hint: It's a 36 mile radius. Why so big? It takes a fast Cessna 15 minutes to cross that.
 
Stadium TFRs rank pretty high on the stupid scale. Only less useful are the VIP ones, mostly since said VIPs are utterly replaceable and interchangeable even these days.
 
frfly172 said:
Just govt giving the illusion,that they can keep us safe,they also like to impress everyone with the power they can yield.
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I wish they were yielding it!
 
While I do not normally condone this ridiculous and useless practice of TFRs over sporting events, I wonder if this one is done to shut down the airspace for a high-speed or aerobatic aerial demonstration. Blue Angels maybe?
 
Everskyward said:
Besides the TFR, if you are thinking about operating in or out of any of these Bay Area (and beyond) airports from Thurs-Tues, you need a ramp reservation from the FBO, even for a drop-off.

https://www.faa.gov/air_traffic/flight_info/super_bowl_50/
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According to Oakland Center, the Thursday to Tuesday FAA ramp space reservation system does not apply to VFR flights, so you apparently need to make arrangements directly with whoever has jurisdiction over the ramp space you're proposing to use:

"VFR PILOT CLARIFICATION: The Super Bowl 50 reservation system is not being used for VFR air traffic reservations. However, the airport may have more stringent requirements due to limited ramp space and resources. Please contact Airport Authorities where you are based and if further clarification is needed, you may contact Tonya Patterson at SJC Tower or Tom Pactol with Northern California TRACON. Numbers are listed below in the links section under facilities."​

http://www.fly2sb50.org/
 
denverpilot said:
...Only less useful are the VIP ones, mostly since said VIPs are utterly replaceable and interchangeable even these days.
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I know it's fashionable to say that, but it's a very sweeping assumption. For example, I have a hard time convincing myself that the replacement of Lincoln and Kennedy with Andrew Johnson and Lyndon Johnson, respectively, had no significant effect on the course of history. Different presidents have different policies and different degrees of leadership ability.
 
Palmpilot said:
I know it's fashionable to say that, but it's a very sweeping assumption. For example, I have a hard time convincing myself that the replacement of Lincoln and Kennedy with Andrew Johnson and Lyndon Johnson, respectively, had no significant effect on the course of history. Different presidents have different policies and different degrees of leadership ability.
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Not to mention McKinley with TR. VERY eventful transition.
 
Palmpilot said:
According to Oakland Center, the Thursday to Tuesday FAA ramp space reservation system does not apply to VFR flights, so you apparently need to make arrangements directly with whoever has jurisdiction over the ramp space you're proposing to use:

"VFR PILOT CLARIFICATION: The Super Bowl 50 reservation system is not being used for VFR air traffic reservations. However, the airport may have more stringent requirements due to limited ramp space and resources. Please contact Airport Authorities where you are based and if further clarification is needed, you may contact Tonya Patterson at SJC Tower or Tom Pactol with Northern California TRACON. Numbers are listed below in the links section under facilities."​

http://www.fly2sb50.org/
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Thanks for the clarification. Did not know that but we will be IFR and have our reservation.
 
denverpilot said:
Stadium TFRs rank pretty high on the stupid scale. Only less useful are the VIP ones, mostly since said VIPs are utterly replaceable and interchangeable even these days.
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Cheney liked to fish both around Vail and Jackson Hole. Fun following his moving circle.
 
Palmpilot said:
I know it's fashionable to say that, but it's a very sweeping assumption. For example, I have a hard time convincing myself that the replacement of Lincoln and Kennedy with Andrew Johnson and Lyndon Johnson, respectively, had no significant effect on the course of history. Different presidents have different policies and different degrees of leadership ability.
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Yawn. Statists, all. No difference.

McKinley v TR, maybe a point there but we're talking about the modern single mega-Party types that actually have been around since TFRs existed. Not ancient history before TFRs and the "War on Terror".
 
ejensen said:
Cheney liked to fish both around Vail and Jackson Hole. Fun following his moving circle.
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I ran into his daughter's SS detail in a volunteer fire house once. Well one of them anyway.

I'm up there in the middle of nowhere working on radio gear and as I'm walking through the bay here comes a guy in a full suit who looks like a linebacker and has a very obvious firearm bulge under his shoulder on one side. I smiled and said, "Can I help you?" wondering how he got into the firehouse. He says he's SS and he's just there to use the bathroom.

It clicked that Cheney's daughter hung out at a house near there and I said, "She hates you guys so much she won't even let you use the bathroom at the house, eh?" He chuckled and said, "Yup..." which was probably more than he should have said but the look on his face showed no love lost for her, for sure.

He smiled and headed for the bathroom near the far right rear bay and I went back in the radio room.

I double checked with the dispatchers via phone since I was technically a "guest" in the unmanned station also. The Chief had given them the door code after he heard from them that they were having to keep extra guys up there just to swap out for pee breaks because they'd have to drive 20 miles down the mountain to the grocery store and the closest public restroom.
 
Palmpilot said:
I know it's fashionable to say that, but it's a very sweeping assumption. For example, I have a hard time convincing myself that the replacement of Lincoln and Kennedy with Andrew Johnson and Lyndon Johnson, respectively, had no significant effect on the course of history. Different presidents have different policies and different degrees of leadership ability.
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That would be why he said, "these days." Don't recall seeing much leadership coming from DC in the last 8-10 years. Buzz Lightyear could do as good as most of the 535 elected Representatives at the Capital, to say nothing if the whole crew down Pennsylvania Avenue. And no, I'm NOT limiting this to the Executive--let's also include IRS, FBI, TSA, Homeland Security . . . .
 
MAKG1 said:
I'm involved with this, so I can't say much.

Let's leave it as that article is missing a few things. Errant Cessnas are probably what will occupy their time, but they are not the point.

Hint: It's a 36 mile radius. Why so big? It takes a fast Cessna 15 minutes to cross that.
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It doesn't matter if they're doing it for Cessnas, ultralights, or Honda jets. The chances of one of those F15s splashing a civilian aircraft that isn't showing obvious hostile intent is zero. And once the hostile intent is obvious, it will be too late. The VIP TFRs make sense because they serve as a warning device to allow time to get the VIP off the X. But that doesn't work with a full stadium.
 
denverpilot said:
Yawn. Statists, all. No difference.
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So if Spiro Agnew, Dan Quayle, or Al Gore had needed to assume the office of president, it wouldn't have made any difference? If Kennedy had lived, he would have handled the Vietnam War as badly as Johnson did? Sorry, I'm not buying it. Glib labels don't prove a thing.
 
Hank S said:
That would be why he said, "these days." Don't recall seeing much leadership coming from DC in the last 8-10 years. Buzz Lightyear could do as good as most of the 535 elected Representatives at the Capital, to say nothing if the whole crew down Pennsylvania Avenue. And no, I'm NOT limiting this to the Executive--let's also include IRS, FBI, TSA, Homeland Security . . . .
Click to expand...

No, he said even these days, which clearly indicates that his statement applied to earlier days as well.
 
Palmpilot said:
So if Spiro Agnew, Dan Quayle, or Al Gore had needed to assume the office of president, it wouldn't have made any difference? If Kennedy had lived, he would have handled the Vietnam War as badly as Johnson did? Sorry, I'm not buying it. Glib labels don't prove a thing.
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Nope no difference at all. Same cabinet, same Congress, same advisors, same Parties. Yes Kennedy would have handled Vietnam as badly as Johnson. Worse probably, since he wouldn't have had the stomach for it and we'd have lost sooner.

"Glib" assumptions of grandeur and placing of relatively dumb individuals on pedestals, is as boring and unprovable as my opinion is, which isn't glib at all. It's based in watching politicians my entire life and seeing specific patterns that repeat over and over.

They're out for one thing above all others, themselves. Interestingly they become heroes and martyrs only by being killed. See how much you think so, as exhibit number one to be placed in evidence.

They're generally expendable as far as society as a whole goes.
 
denverpilot said:
Nope no difference at all. Same cabinet, same Congress, same advisors, same Parties. Yes Kennedy would have handled Vietnam as badly as Johnson. Worse probably, since he wouldn't have had the stomach for it and we'd have lost sooner.
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It's hard to see how anyone could have done as bad a job as Johnson did in communicating with the public about the war, and communicating is something that Kennedy was much better at. However, if you're right that he would have gotten us out of the war sooner, are you really going to hang your hat on the idea that ending the expenditure of blood and treasure sooner would have been insignificant?

"Glib" assumptions of grandeur and placing of relatively dumb individuals on pedestals, is as boring and unprovable as my opinion is, which isn't glib at all.
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You seem to be basing your strong opinion about what would have happened on the fact that both your opinion and mine are unprovable. :rofl:

By the way, I'm not saying your opinion is glib; I'm saying that calling everyone statists is a glib argument. And it is.

It's based in watching politicians my entire life and seeing specific patterns that repeat over and over.

They're out for one thing above all others, themselves. Interestingly they become heroes and martyrs only by being killed. See how much you think so, as exhibit number one to be placed in evidence.

They're generally expendable as far as society as a whole goes.
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I've been watching politicians my entire life too, and the pattern I've seen is that when key offices change hands, it does make a difference. And you're mistaken in your belief that I assume the one who was killed is necessarily better than the one who replaced him. The issues are that it can cause major shifts in both policy and competence, it reduces the citizen's ability to know what to expect from government, and perhaps most importantly, it diminishes the power of the voters to choose their leaders, and thus threatens the very foundation of a republic.
 
Palmpilot said:
It's hard to see how anyone could have done as bad a job as Johnson did in communicating with the public about the war, and communicating is something that Kennedy was much better at. However, if you're right that he would have gotten us out of the war sooner, are you really going to hang your hat on the idea that ending the expenditure of blood and treasure sooner would have been insignificant?
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Kennedy DID have us in Vietnam. So did Eisenhower. Just not on the same scale.

It's not terribly relevant to make up alternate histories, but it's not too hard to extrapolate Kennedy's approach. I could see him as saying no to the Gulf of Tonkin strategy after what happened at the Bay of Pigs. That might have had an enormous effect -- or more precisely a lack of enormous effect. Not because he was a better president, but rather because he had already had a massive screw up, and a separate close call to thermonuclear war.
 
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The nice thing is at least this thread can't get stuck in the spin zone now.
 
Sac Arrow said:
The nice thing is at least this thread can't get stuck in the spin zone now.
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LOL. I wasn't going to reply but couldn't resist since he decided an opinion about politicians being useless in a TFR thread was something to jump down my throat for.

I do so enjoy those who think the "policies" of the two fake competitive Parties are really any different though. Quite entertaining how well that social engineering works on those who need something to run their lives for ad/or about.

The week out of the country highlighted it really well. Know how much anyone else on the planet cares about our political theater? Almost none. It was really nice going to a bar and not having some damn talking heads with 2/3s of the screen real estate describing what a political candidate had for breakfast and whether or not they were regular this morning.

Nobody with a brain on the planet gives much more than two seconds of thought about our fake political process anymore. Quite refreshing to get away from it for a week. You really see how it's all planned and scripted when you hit the airport and there's every f***ing TV with a fake news network in every terminal and even at baggage claim. Gotta keep the sheep distracted.
 
Palmpilot said:
So if Spiro Agnew, Dan Quayle, or Al Gore had needed to assume the office of president, it wouldn't have made any difference? If Kennedy had lived, he would have handled the Vietnam War as badly as Johnson did? Sorry, I'm not buying it. Glib labels don't prove a thing.
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If Kennedy hadn't been shot in Dallas, he might have died of tetanus from a shaving cut two weeks later (if only he'd used an electric razor...). If the Back to the Future trilogy taught us anything, it's that if things were different, they wouldn't be the same.
 
Sac Arrow said:
The nice thing is at least this thread can't get stuck in the spin zone now.
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I believe we're discussing whether VIP TFRs serve a purpose or not.

I think that protecting political leaders from assassination serves the purpose of allowing our leaders to be selected by the people rather than by assassins, that this is fundamental to a republic, and that while republics may not be a perfect form of government, they are preferable to other forms.

I do think that 32 NM radius TFRs may be excessive and not particularly effective, however.
 
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