A question about logging point to point cross country

BrianNC

BrianNC

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A question about cross country time as I'm transferring my physical logbook info to myflightbook.

I have a commercial certificate with an instrument rating. Since cross country for the purposes of part 135 minimums is point to point, and doesn't have to be 50nm, and since I have no rating to go for that needs cross country to be 50NM, can I put a flight where I landed at any airport other then my home airport down as cross country as an easy way to keep up with point to point in my totals? And if so, can I also do that with pre private or just after I got the private?

If I have to go back through my physical logbook to figure this out, it will be a tedious process. I just figured if I put those shorter flights down as cross country too then when I'm finished transferring my xctry time it will include 50NM and point to point if I ever decide to go for 135.

From my own viewpoint I can't see where it would be a problem unless there's something I overlooking.
 
Most logbooks have a cross-country column. Since there are several different definitions of cross-country, it is up to you to decide what it means, or have more than one column.
 
dmspilot said:
Most logbooks have a cross-country column. Since there are several different definitions of cross-country, it is up to you to decide what it means, or have more than one column.
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My physical logbook doesn't have extra columns, but I see in myflightbook I can add a category of cross country flights under 50NM. So I can just add those 2 column up for my total cross country.
 
Cross-country time means—

(i) Except as provided in paragraphs (ii) through (vi) of this definition, time acquired during flight—

(A) Conducted by a person who holds a pilot certificate;

(B) Conducted in an aircraft;

(C) That includes a landing at a point other than the point of departure; and

(D) That involves the use of dead reckoning, pilotage, electronic navigation aids, radio aids, or other navigation systems to navigate to the landing point.

If you navigated by radar vectors it doesn’t count.
 
BrianNC said:
My physical logbook doesn't have extra columns, but I see in myflightbook I can add a category of cross country flights under 50NM. So I can just add those 2 column up for my total cross country.
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This is what I have been doing. I converted my paper logbook to MyFlightBook shortly after I finished my private, so there were not very many short cross-country flights to add information about. I did recently run the logbook audit on the MyFlightBook website and it flagged me for having flights with cross-country time of a specific distance that did not have any cross-country time logged, so I think that @EricBe may have intended that we input the time in both the XC and XC-under-50 fields, then subtract the XC-under-50 field when determining our XC time to apply for a certificate or rating. It works fine the way I do it, which is what you described above.
 
Clip4 said:
(D) That involves the use of dead reckoning, pilotage, electronic navigation aids, radio aids, or other navigation systems to navigate to the landing point.

If you navigated by radar vectors it doesn’t count.
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I would call Radar Vectors a form of electronic navigation aid. Just because it isn’t installed in the aircraft. . .
 
I'm trying to figure out how I would navigate by radar vectors. I navigate by a chart. Where the controller makes me go to avoid a big crunch in the sky, has no effect on how I'm navigating.
 
RussR said:
I have yet to see anyone fly a complete flight from takeoff to landing using only radar vectors.

Even on a PAR approach, the last few feet of navigating to the runway has to be done visually, i.e. pilotage.
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Is that a challenge? :cool:
 
By the time you get to 1500 hours your XC time of more than 50 miles should be more than enough to meet the ATP requirements. Hell, I met the ATP XC requirements before I even had my commercial.
 
Clip4 said:
Cross-country time means—

(i) Except as provided in paragraphs (ii) through (vi) of this definition, time acquired during flight—

(A) Conducted by a person who holds a pilot certificate;

(B) Conducted in an aircraft;

(C) That includes a landing at a point other than the point of departure; and

(D) That involves the use of dead reckoning, pilotage, electronic navigation aids, radio aids, or other navigation systems to navigate to the landing point.

If you navigated by radar vectors it doesn’t count.
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Well, vectoring is a "radio aid." But I always red it to say, "so long as you didn't get there by accident."
 
Last edited:
Chief counsel opinion incoming! Engage Safety Squints!

(Lord no, don't ask. I'm kidding.)
 
midlifeflyer said:
Well, vectoring is a "radio aid." But I a;ways red it to say, "so long as you didn't get there by accident."
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The FAR says that cross-country time is flying time "that involves the use of dead reckoning, pilotage, electronic navigation aids, radio aids, or other navigation systems to navigate to the landing point." The phrase involves the use does not necessarily mean was accomplished due to the successful use of those navigation techniques. So, even when I get somewhere by accident, I log it as cross-country time.

denverpilot said:
Chief counsel opinion incoming! Engage Safety Squints!

(Lord no, don't ask. I'm kidding.)
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Yeah, that. Please don't ask for an opinion on this. I might have to audit my logbook for all those accidental navigations. :)
 
iamtheari said:
Yeah, that. Please don't ask for an opinion on this. I might have to audit my logbook for all those accidental navigations. :)
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Lol. I thought that was when I accidentally hit direct, enter, enter on the wrong navaid.
 
iamtheari said:
Is that a challenge? :cool:
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Only as long as there is video...

EdFred said:
By the time you get to 1500 hours your XC time of more than 50 miles should be more than enough to meet the ATP requirements. Hell, I met the ATP XC requirements before I even had my commercial.
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I 100% agree. Although the original question was about 135 minimums. But the point still stands. 135 VFR requirements are 500 total, 100 XC. 135 IFR requirements are 1200 total, 500 XC. Those numbers are not hard to meet for someone who is actually flying places (which is the intent), and is able to plan ahead.
 
RussR said:
I 100% agree. Although the original question was about 135 minimums.
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Well my question wasn’t really about 135 minimums. I was just using that as an example of cross country point to point as opposed to +50 nautical miles cc and how to log it. Feel free to deviate as needed. :D
 
A couple of observations about transferring flight time from a physical logbook to an electronic one:

1. It sure is great reliving all these flight and the details about them and the memories it brings back (I took my first lesson in Feb '79).

2. It really shines the light on how I added wrong in some places in my physical logbook. :D
 
MyFlightbook Blog: Logging Cross Country Time
"Note: the mobile apps will automatically fill-in cross-country time if they are detecting takeoffs/landings and see a 50nm distance between airports in the "Route" field, since this seems to be the largest threshold available for any purpose."

I thought the website did it too but I'll have to pay more attention when I log them now...
 
BrianNC said:
A couple of observations about transferring flight time from a physical logbook to an electronic one:

1. It sure is great reliving all these flight and the details about them and the memories it brings back (I took my first lesson in Feb '79).



2. It really shines the light on how I added wrong in some places in my physical logbook. :D
Click to expand...

I had about 8000 hours and 28 years worth of entries when I went digital. I wasn’t in any hurry, so I’d enter a few pages at a time. Some flights I remembered like they were yesterday and others were “who the heck’s plane was that?” I knew I had math errors, so at the beginning of my fourth paper logbook I made an entry noting that I was carrying forward corrected totals. I still keep my paper logs current and verify the math after each page.
 
Insurance application forms often ask for x-country time. All those 20 NM short x-country's add up over time. Might even lower your premium.
 
baboss said:
MyFlightbook Blog: Logging Cross Country Time
"Note: the mobile apps will automatically fill-in cross-country time if they are detecting takeoffs/landings and see a 50nm distance between airports in the "Route" field, since this seems to be the largest threshold available for any purpose."

I thought the website did it too but I'll have to pay more attention when I log them now...
Click to expand...
How would the website detect takeoffs and landings in your airplane?
 
midlifeflyer said:
How would the website detect takeoffs and landings in your airplane?
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*whispers*
They are watching you.

With some simple code you could follow a tail number on any tracking site grab that data, and autofill the logbook on the website.
 
I have only ever logged 50nm as x country time. That is the only time that really matters.
 
I only ever mark it as XC if its over 50nm, but Myflightbook also tracks flights with more than one airport involved to calculate total XC time for ATP and 135 reasons. Kind of nice.
 
TommyG said:
I have only ever logged 50nm as x country time. That is the only time that really matters.
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Depends on what you want to accomplish in aviation. You are allowed the less than 50nm for 135 IFR qualifications, etc.
 
Dave Theisen post: 3043478 said:
I had about 8000 hours and 28 years worth of entries when I went digital. I wasn’t in any hurry, so I’d enter a few pages at a time. Some flights I remembered like they were yesterday and others were “who the heck’s plane was that?” I knew I had math errors, so at the beginning of my fourth paper logbook I made an entry noting that I was carrying forward corrected totals. I still keep my paper logs current and verify the math after each page.
Click to expand...

Yeah, going through through the book is spurring memories I never would have thought about without doing it. And some that made me think a second, like looking at my instrument checkride and noticing the DPE had no landing for me. He left landings blank. That baffled me for a second until I remembered when we were finally landing after the checkride he asked me if he could do the landing. So he landed the plane. lol.
 
EdFred said:
*whispers*
They are watching you.

With some simple code you could follow a tail number on any tracking site grab that data, and autofill the logbook on the website.
Click to expand...

Wouldn’t work unless every flight you do is IFR to a towered field.

ADS-B tracking can be very spotty, incomplete at best for VFR flights.
 
Fearless Tower said:
ADS-B tracking can be very spotty, incomplete at best for VFR flights.
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The same description applies to a lot of pilots' logbooks, so it could be a reasonable approach.
 
midlifeflyer said:
How would the website detect takeoffs and landings in your airplane?
Click to expand...
"Note: the mobile apps will automatically fill-in cross-country time if they are detecting takeoffs/landings and see a 50nm distance between airports in the "Route" field"

It's calculating the distance between the airports in the route field, not by GPS tracking.
 
baboss said:
"Note: the mobile apps will automatically fill-in cross-country time if they are detecting takeoffs/landings and see a 50nm distance between airports in the "Route" field"

It's calculating the distance between the airports in the route field, not by GPS tracking.
Click to expand...
Yes, but it's the mobile app which detects the takeoff and the landing.
 
midlifeflyer said:
Yes, but it's the mobile app which detects the takeoff and the landing.
Click to expand...
Ah, reckon I understand what you're saying. I never use that function. I put the route in manually post-flight when making my entry, via app or browser.
 
I log it as XC if it's a planned landing at an airport outside the local area. The size of that "local area" depends on what I'm flying, in the ultralight 10 miles was XC, in the Hatz that's the local area. But it doesn't matter what I call it as I'm not planning on getting any additional certificates or ratings.
 
denverpilot said:
That was one piece of automation I could never get used to. Turned it off and it reinforces my looking at my watch and noting both habit.
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I don't use it either. I've been logging post flight based on Hobbs or equivalent for 30 years and haven't seen a good reason to change that.
 
baboss said:
Ah, reckon I understand what you're saying. I never use that function. I put the route in manually post-flight when making my entry, via app or browser.
Click to expand...
Me too.
 
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