A barbecue adventure, the saga unfolds.

[Half Fast]

I just remembered it’s the first day of school tomorrow. So I’ll be smoking up the hood and sitting outside with my Irish coffee watching all the buses and minivans drive by.

Y’know, it’s more common to lure children with candy, but your technique just might work.....

 

[Matthew]

Y’know, it’s more common to lure children with candy, but your technique just might work.....

 

[masloki]

View attachment 144007

Say no more!

 

[Matthew]

It’s about 3:45 now. Fire is going well. Something was howling about 15 minutes ago, foxes or coyotes maybe.

 

[Albany Tom]

The fire picture is awesome! But I don't think I'd like bbq coyote.

 

[Matthew]

The fire picture is awesome! But I don't think I'd like bbq coyote.

Probably tastes like cat.

 

[Matthew]

It was perfect timing. Pork butts finished in 12 hrs (4am-4pm), rested for an hour, and dinner was at 5pm.

It’s almost like I’ve done this before!

And naps were plentiful today.

This is a pretty good example of how competition cooking differs from home cooking: The current thought on the contest circuit is to not spend any more time than necessary. Teams will start their smokers around 3am like I did, then get pork butts on the smoker like I did. I got it started at 4am, so that it would be ready to eat at 5pm. At a KCBS contest, pork gets judged at 1pm, so it has to be ready to go around 12:30 or 12:45 to give the team a chance to get it sorted out, boxed, and turned in inside the window. Teams are moving away from "low and slow" and getting into "hot and fast". That way they can start it cooking at 4 and turned in at 1. Some teams now are only cooking a part of a butt so it takes even less time, recent rule changes allow for this. I talked with the KCBS CEO last 2 weekends ago and shook my head over that rule change. He's an old timer on the circuit, too, and knows what I'm frustrated about. Hot and Fast gives teams the chance to grab a hotel room or get some sleep somewhere else, set the alarm early, get the fires going, get cooking, get samples turned in, and go home.

For us low and slow old-timers, getting pork butt turned in at 1pm means we start it at midnight or even earlier. Then we grab a chair or cot and take a nap, getting up to monitor temps as needed. That's some good times!

 

[TCABM]

…Some teams now are only cooking a part of a butt so it takes even less time, recent rule changes allow for this. I talked with the KCBS CEO last 2 weekends ago and shook my head over that rule change. …

I’m not a contest guy, but at some point, the butchering to break down a big cut changes the cooking skills needed. It also messes with tradition.

But barbeque is in the eye of the beholder, I guess.

 

[Matthew]

I’m not a contest guy, but at some point, the butchering to break down a big cut changes the cooking skills needed. It also messes with tradition.

But barbeque is in the eye of the beholder, I guess.

The pork butt has several distinct muscle groups, each cooks down to its own texture. The most popular for turn-in is the “money muscle”. It’s almost like a pork tenderloin but with lots more flavor. Rules used to require you to cook the butt to 165 (considered “done”) before you could separate it into parts and finish each part separately. That rule is gone, and what isn’t prohibited is allowed. So teams separate the parts prior to cooking, and if you do that, then you might as well only cook the money muscle and save even more time. A lot of us old timers look at that and think, “I bet these guys don’t know how to use an E6b, either.”

 

[TCABM]

The pork butt has several distinct muscle groups, each cooks down to its own texture. …

Oh, I get it. The average backyard bbq’r isn’t going to breakdown the big cuts. Seems like KCBS is trying to make an event more attractive to teams, which is entirely different than trying to find the team that makes the best turn in box that’s representative of barbecue as a whole. I’m a beef guy, so if teams aren’t required to turn in brisket along with pork, pork ribs, and chicken then they’re just cooking out. . I get why teams don’t want to mess with brisket.

But specialization for contests has always been a thing, I guess. Look at cooking to a taste profile, for example. I guess what’s important is in the judging criteria. If taste/texture/color/presentation isn’t defined, then who cares what they turn in. But if bark is important and part of the judging criteria, I guess teams that don’t incorporate that won’t be winning.

 

[Matthew]

Oh, I get it. The average backyard bbq’r isn’t going to breakdown the big cuts. Seems like KCBS is trying to make an event more attractive to teams, which is entirely different than trying to find the team that makes the best turn in box that’s representative of barbecue as a whole. I’m a beef guy, so if teams aren’t required to turn in brisket along with pork, pork ribs, and chicken then they’re just cooking out. . I get why teams don’t want to mess with brisket.

But specialization for contests has always been a thing, I guess. Look at cooking to a taste profile, for example. I guess what’s important is in the judging criteria. If taste/texture/color/presentation isn’t defined, then who cares what they turn in. But if bark is important and part of the judging criteria, I guess teams that don’t incorporate that won’t be winning.

KCBS contests are 4-meat contests. Chicken turn in at noon, ribs at 12:30, pork butt at 1:00 and brisket at 1:30.

Judging criteria is appearance (how much does it make you want to eat it), taste (flavor profile), and tenderness (how well is it cooked). Appearance is the most subjective and is weighted at about 1/2 point. Taste is weighted roughly 2.5 points and tenderness about 1. Scoring is similar to a school grading system, 9 = A, 8 = B, 7 = C, 6 = D, 5 = F. Then 2 = inedible, and a 1 is reserved for a DQ. 6 judges score each entry, lowest score is dropped, the other 5 are added together. Taste score is the first tiebreaker. No partial scores, so if you are wavering between an 8 and 9, you give the team the benefit of the doubt and round up.

I judged last week, and I think I awarded 2 or three 9/9/9 scores. I’m pretty sure one was chicken and another was a rib.

Some contests will have ancillary categories like sausage, turkey, miscellaneous, desserts, or whatever. In those cases, judges use their best judgement.

You mentioned bark in post, here’s an example from last weekend in a pork turn-in. A team turned in chunks that included almost all bark. That’s rare, and here’s why: I pulled out a nice looking sample, lots of bark, but a good sized chunk of pork attached to it. We score on appearance before anyone takes a sample. The taste score was very high, I liked the bark since that’s where the majority of the seasoning is, and it was well balanced by the milder piece of meat attached to it. Tenderness also scored very well. The bark had a really nice chew, the meat was tender, and overall it had a great moisture level. I scored it very high. The judge next to me said, “That’s the worst piece of pork I’ve ever judged.” Turns out the piece he grabbed was all bark, no meat, and it was dry, tough, and a little crunchy. Turning in something like that runs the risk that not every judge will get a consistent sample. Ribs can be like that, too. A rib on the end of a slab will usually be overcooked compared to a rib cut from the middle of a slab. So we normally cook 4-6 slabs and take the best 6 ribs from those.

 

[Matthew]

Scoring: the way it’s weighted, each judge point is worth 4. So a perfect score from one judge (9/9/9) is worth 9x4=36. There are 6 judges per entry and the lowest score is dropped. So the max in a category is 5x36=180. There are cases where a team will get 6 perfect scores, that’s called a perfect-perfect. It’s used for tiebreakers and boasting.

Another difference in contest vs home cooking is seasoning. Judges normally take one bite per sample, so teams will overseason by a lot so that bite really pops.

 

[TCABM]

Found some lamb shoulder in the fridge this morning so I seasoned it and let it rest all day. Put it on the smoker about 3p with some diced potatoes in a pan underneath it and let ‘er rip at 250* until it hit 130* internal and finished it in a cast iron grill pan. Mashed the taters with a roasted garlic head and some heavy cream.

No pics, I was too hungry by the time we set down to eat.

 

[Matthew]

Found some lamb shoulder in the fridge this morning so I seasoned it and let it rest all day. Put it on the smoker about 3p with some diced potatoes in a pan underneath it and let ‘er rip at 250* until it hit 130* internal and finished it in a cast iron grill pan. Mashed the taters with a roasted garlic head and some heavy cream.

No pics, I was too hungry by the time we set down to eat.

We got a first place in miscellaneous with lamb chops one year. Did a reverse sear. Smoked them until med rare, then seared them in an insanely hot cast iron skillet.

 

[Matthew]

I was looking at some bbq contest pics. This was not the worst conditions I’ve cooked in:

 

[Matthew]

All checked in for another contest. OG Bandits was at my contest last weekend, two of the nicest people you’ll ever meet, husband and wife. They had (have?) a concession at the MCI food court.

I got a pic of one of the other smokers I remembered from last year.

 

[Matthew]

Just got home from that contest. In addition to the 4-meats, this contest also has pasta (think things like lobster or burnt end mac and cheese), dessert, and turkey. My table got turkey. We did have to DQ one entry for “foreign object”. One judge lifted off a slice of turkey and that uncovered the slice underneath it along with an impossible-to-miss chunk of foil. All judges downstream had to give it a DQ score. Judges 5 and 6 were the ones affected. Since we toss the lowest score, you can survive one judge DQ score but not two. That was probably enough to put that entry in last place. That’s really too bad since it was good enough to finish in the money.

And it was hot, they ran out of water bottles for the judges.

 

[Half Fast]

And it was hot, they ran out of water bottles for the judges.

Does that mean they had to substitute beer?

 

[Matthew]

Does that mean they had to substitute beer?

I wish. But I’d still be asleep in a corner somewhere in banjo country if they had.

Rules say only water, and only what’s provided by the organizers. They don’t want someone sneaking in vodka, I guess. It’s meant to be used as a palate cleanser. But it was so hot we were all slamming water as hard as we could.

Pretty neat venue for the judges, though, too bad there’s no AC. Most of the windows don’t open, but it was so hot outside today that wouldn’t have helped. We only had a couple of fans.

The place was built in the ‘30s as a place you could “take the waters”. There’s a large swimming pool in the lower level that’s long since been closed. The room we were in has a large bar where they served all kinds of mineral waters.

I noticed a pattern in the tile along the bar that repeated regularly. It’s hard to make out in the picture, but it looks like what you think it looks like.

 

[TCABM]

…Pretty neat venue for the judges, though, too bad there’s no AC. Most of the windows don’t open, but it was so hot outside today that wouldn’t have helped. We only had a couple of fans.

Jesus christ. They put y’all in a green house. Cool venue, but you can kill a fella that way.

 

[Matthew]

Jesus christ. They put y’all in a green house. Cool venue, but you can kill a fella that way.

It’s not for the weak.

 

[TCABM]

Variant of 0-400 wings tonight. Since the gravity series gets up to temp really quick, I step it up 50* at a time from 200 to 400 every five mins. I let it run at 400 for about 15 mins, then drop it back down to 350 to the end.

BT temp control is awesome.

 

[Half Fast]

Variant of 0-400 wings tonight. Since the gravity series gets up to temp really quick, I step it up 50* at a time from 200 to 400 every five mins. I let it run at 400 for about 15 mins, then drop it back down to 350 to the end.

BT temp control is awesome.

Y'know, I'd like to see a BBQ contest sometime where the contestants are told to leave their smokers and other equipment in their trailers. Give everyone an inexpensive kettle grill, a few sacks of Kingsford, and some wood chunks. Call it the "Joe Sixpack Backyard BBQ Challenge" and see just how good they can do with what the average person has on the patio.

 

[Matthew]

Y'know, I'd like to see a BBQ contest sometime where the contestants are told to leave their smokers and other equipment in their trailers. Give everyone an inexpensive kettle grill, a few sacks of Kingsford, and some wood chunks. Call it the "Joe Sixpack Backyard BBQ Challenge" and see just how good they can do with what the average person has on the patio.

Heh, that’s a “Kid’s Q” contest. Kids get a little grill and a pound or so of ground beef and make burgers for the judges. Sometimes they grill chicken. Hard to tell what you’re going to get, nobody expects the Skittles stuffed burger.

This was at Pigfest in Lakeland, FL right on the same spot as Sun ‘n Fun.

 

[Half Fast]

Heh, that’s a “Kid’s Q” contest. Kids get a little grill and a pound or so of ground beef and make burgers for the judges. Sometimes they grill chicken. Hard to tell what you’re going to get, nobody expects the Skittles stuffed burger.

So let's see how well the serious competitors can smoke a slap of ribs with rudimentary equipment. I'd bet some are good enough that they'd turn out some fantastic stuff, while others would be lost without the gear. It'd be neat to see. (Maybe require them to consume a beer per hour while cooking, too...)

 

[Matthew]

Y'know, I'd like to see a BBQ contest sometime where the contestants are told to leave their smokers and other equipment in their trailers. Give everyone an inexpensive kettle grill, a few sacks of Kingsford, and some wood chunks. Call it the "Joe Sixpack Backyard BBQ Challenge" and see just how good they can do with what the average person has on the patio.

I would expect some pretty darn good Q. Pretty much all of us got our start on a Weber grill with Kingsford and wood chunks. I’d say you’d get some ribs and chicken (I know you’d see chicken…I’ve done it) that would get a top-10 ribbon in a normal competition. Brisket and butts take too long to cook and a regular grill just isn’t optimized for that.

PS: The “one beer per hour” isn’t the handicap you think it is!

 

[Half Fast]

This was at Pigfest in Lakeland, FL right on the same spot as Sun ‘n Fun.

Let me know if you get to Winter Haven or Haines City or Davenport.

 

[Half Fast]

I would expect some pretty darn good Q. Pretty much all of us got our start on a Weber grill with Kingsford and wood chunks.

I'm sure you're right. So let's see it! And make it a six-pack per hour if that would improve the challenge.

 

[Matthew]

Let me know if you get to Winter Haven or Haines City or Davenport.

Davenport has the “Grills Gone Wild” contest in Feb.

 

[Flatiowa]

Yesterday’s supper (and todays snacks) Made on a Weber style little “deck smoker” that was gifted to me by a friend a couple decades after he bought it at my mom’s estate sale when he was moving out of state. (Small town/rural life, what goes around comes back around). Boneless pork chops (cuts of lean pork loin) Home made glaze of honey from my hives, ketchup, worchester sauce, and powdered mustard. Absolutely delicious and I’ve got peppers and tomatoes from the garden in the dehydrator now to be ground into powder and mixed into the next batch of “sauce”.

 

[Matthew]

I'm sure you're right. So let's see it! And make it a six-pack per hour if that would improve the challenge.

If I were king: I’d give each team a whole prime brisket, randomly selected either by me or by lottery where teams draw for pick order. The Steak Cookoff Association works that way, the contest organizers provide the steaks and the teams draw a number for selection order.

The deal with brisket is that it takes a lot of skill to cook a tough cut of beef and get it tender. But a lot of teams now buy a Wagyu brisket that already starts so tender it doesn’t require nearly as much work. I’ve talked with a couple of nationally ranked cooks about it. Deep down they didn’t seem proud of it, but a Wagyu just gives them so much margin for error they can’t pass it up.

Not every team can afford a Wagyu, so I would like a way to level that field.

 

[EdFred]

Let me know if you get to Winter Haven or Haines City or Davenport.

I stayed a week in Davenport back when it was nothing. Free lodging. Friend of friend of friend said three of us could use his place, so we took him up on it. At 19, a free place over winter break will never be turned down.

 

[TCABM]

If I were king: I’d give each team a whole prime brisket, randomly selected either by me or by lottery where teams draw for pick order. ….

Not a bad idea. I’d like to see injection off limits, but in some circles I’d be a heretic. The big difference between backyard and contest is really about getting to a consistent flavor profile in my opinion. That’s where a lot of cooking and experimentation comes in, so you know what spices work in a rub with what wood.

My BIL swears on brisket w/hard core carnivore black on pellet smoker with a 50/50 of oak/hickory. I lean towards a more Franklin style rub over mesquite/oak sticks tempered with charcoal on my set up. They’re both delicious when cooked at the right temp to the right temp, but even the rubs need different temps to get the same bark since one of them has a different, key ingredient.

 

[Half Fast]

I stayed a week in Davenport back when it was nothing. Free lodging. Friend of friend of friend said three of us could use his place, so we took him up on it. At 19, a free place over winter break will never be turned down.

It's still not much, at least in town, but they're dropping in new housing developments all over just outside of town. Haines City extended the city limits, so much of the new growth is technically in Haines City, not Davenport, but practically it doesn't matter much.

 

[EdFred]

It's still not much, at least in town, but they're dropping in new housing developments all over just outside of town. Haines City extended the city limits, so much of the new growth is technically in Haines City, not Davenport, but practically it doesn't matter much.

I looked on google maps. A lot has changed in 32 years. It was like 12 houses (OK, maybe a 15) back then.

 

[GaryM]

Y'know, I'd like to see a BBQ contest sometime where the contestants are told to leave their smokers and other equipment in their trailers. Give everyone an inexpensive kettle grill, a few sacks of Kingsford, and some wood chunks. Call it the "Joe Sixpack Backyard BBQ Challenge" and see just how good they can do with what the average person has on the patio.

My first competition was day two of a wonderful Class-and-Cook event hosted by the Northeast BBQ Society. Day one was class, excellent instruction on prepping and smoking ribs and chicken wings to competition standards. Day two was competition; everyone was given two racks of ribs and 3 lbs of wings with access to everything else they'd need; sauces, rubs, foil, parsley to make the turn-in box. And everyone was assigned more-or-less at random a smoker from the wide variety of smokers their members had brought in...everything from Webers, drums, offsets, cabinet smokers... We were assigned a beast of a restaurant-quality cabinet-style pellet smoker.

We won best ribs, and finished third overall as our wings finished 5th or 6th.

Had a similar experience at the popular Brisket Boot Camp that Mason-Dixon BBQ puts on. It's not a competition, though some of their staff members are certified judges and will offer their opinion as to how you would score. Like the Class and Cook, you show up with nothing, and are given a packer brisket and everything else you could possibly need, including use of a random smoker from among the dozen types they had available. I ended up with a fair-sized cabinet smoker, burning lump charcoal with lump hardwood for the smoke. Made a mighty fine brisket, but it's an adventure cooking on a smoker you've never seen before.

 

[Albany Tom]

If I were king: I’d give each team a whole prime brisket, randomly selected either by me or by lottery where teams draw for pick order. The Steak Cookoff Association works that way, the contest organizers provide the steaks and the teams draw a number for selection order.

The deal with brisket is that it takes a lot of skill to cook a tough cut of beef and get it tender. But a lot of teams now buy a Wagyu brisket that already starts so tender it doesn’t require nearly as much work. I’ve talked with a couple of nationally ranked cooks about it. Deep down they didn’t seem proud of it, but a Wagyu just gives them so much margin for error they can’t pass it up.

Not every team can afford a Wagyu, so I would like a way to level that field.

I'll start off by saying I'm not really a fan of brisket. But is there a brisket cut on a bison? Because my primitive math skills are telling me it probably wouldn't be wagyu like, and might be a level challenge.

 

[TCABM]

I'll start off by saying I'm not really a fan of brisket.

Burn the witch.

But is there a brisket cut on a bison? Because my primitive math skills are telling me it probably wouldn't be wagyu like, and might be a level challenge.

There is, but it’s much leaner not Wagyu like, as you suspect.

The question is what about brisket don’t you like. Beef is beef, it’s a matter of tenderness. Split the cut and the flat is/can be pastrami. The point should be fatty, and deckle is the bomb. Packer’s include the deckle, but most trimmed briskets don’t. If you like beef, I’m at a loss unless you say dry…

 

[Albany Tom]

Burn the witch.


There is, but it’s much leaner not Wagyu like, as you suspect.

The question is what about brisket don’t you like. Beef is beef, it’s a matter of tenderness. Split the cut and the flat is/can be pastrami. The point should be fatty, and deckle is the bomb. Packer’s include the deckle, but most trimmed briskets don’t. If you like beef, I’m at a loss unless you say dry…

It seems an exceptional amount of work for something that every time I've had it, it's dry. Like chicken fully cooked and then let to sit in a warmer oven at 200F for 3 hours dry. Like the animal had no fat at all dry.

Serve me a steak - porterhouse, ribeye, sirloin, filet - medium rare to rare and I'm a happy guy. Or let me cook it and I'll do the same. Or give me a chuck roast that's been braised to fall apart, and I'm good, too.

BBQ? I want pork ribs, or if it's done right chicken, or beef ribs. I've been let down by brisket every place I've tried it. Like Charlie Brown and the football.

 

[Matthew]

It seems an exceptional amount of work for something that every time I've had it, it's dry. Like chicken fully cooked and then let to sit in a warmer oven at 200F for 3 hours dry. Like the animal had no fat at all dry.

Serve me a steak - porterhouse, ribeye, sirloin, filet - medium rare to rare and I'm a happy guy. Or let me cook it and I'll do the same. Or give me a chuck roast that's been braised to fall apart, and I'm good, too.

BBQ? I want pork ribs, or if it's done right chicken, or beef ribs. I've been let down by brisket every place I've tried it. Like Charlie Brown and the football.

It sounds like you’re just having bad luck with wherever you’re getting brisket. But a ribeye? I’ll never say “no”.

Edit: I thought about this a little longer. There can be a big difference in results between a prime and choice brisket, I wouldn’t even bother with select. A Wagyu is another level above prime. The grade makes a big difference.