A barbecue adventure, the saga unfolds.

Discussion in 'Hangar Talk' started by Sac Arrow, Jan 8, 2022.

  1. Sac Arrow

    Sac Arrow Touchdown! Greaser!

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    That's right. Barbecue is a term that is more contentious than politics, religion, or wing placement. I'm sensing that I am immediately about to get blasphemed by the self-proclaimed issuers of the card, but wait...

    I'm using a smoker. That's right. It's a Cuisinart 18 inch vertical charcoal smoker, and I'm doing ribs. So far I have...

    1. Figured out how to set it up. I mean I assembled it a couple weeks ago, but the immediate crisis was exactly where to place the water/drip pan which also serves as a heat deflector. I had it sitting on the coal retainer ring. Obviously that wasn't going to work. I then figured out that it actually sits on the lower meat rack tabs, below the rack. Okay, crisis averted.

    2. I built a ring of coals on the holder, put have a chimney of burning coals in the middle (per Youtube and instruction manual) and added the hickory chunks, which I soaked in water overnight.

    3. Seasoned the ribs, loaded them up, and off we go.
    CDA203EB-5D06-4E93-83E2-E3E17CDC4796.jpeg BEF2CF49-F22F-441A-8997-3E5DB75DB89D.jpeg F75B75B8-783E-4657-B0BC-3A2A45E128CD.jpeg
    BFDA7990-AC00-41BF-BA3E-554F6A6203E3.jpeg

    Some initial observations:

    1. Even going vents full bore, temperatures came up very slowly. I'm jockeying the top vent a little bit but it struggled to hold and maintain 225. I'm shooting for 250. This is after an hour.

    2. Since I'm not really throttling it, I have concerns that I'm not going to be able to maintain the appropriate temperature for eight hours (I need eight hours.) The product reviews suggest that it should be able to hold 250 for eight hours. I suppose that is variable on the charcoal, amount, and the OAT. Which, currently is 49.

    3. Adding charcoal to this thing is fairly highly problematic. The only way to accomplish that is to remove the entire upper assembly to expose the fire grate, and that is not something I really want to do if I can help it.
     
    Last edited: Jan 8, 2022
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  2. luvflyin

    luvflyin Touchdown! Greaser!

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    I've called in a preliminary notice to 911 warning them of possible impeding fire and to be ready
     
  3. GaryM

    GaryM Pattern Altitude

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    You’ve started down the path to a lifelong obsession. I’m only about 5 years in, but having a great time with my Weber Smokey Mountain Cooker, very similar in design to yours (though I can add charcoal without much trouble-I just reach in through the door with handfuls of charcoal). It’s not as hot over the firebox as you might think.

    @Matthew will probably be along shortly; he is a great source of BBQ wisdom.
     
  4. 455 Bravo Uniform

    455 Bravo Uniform En-Route

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    I suggest visiting The Virtual Weber Bullet website for some vertical charcoal smoker methods, as I think your smoker may operate similarly. It looks like yours has bottom vents similar to the Weber.

    I run my Weber with the top vent wide open, and use the bottom vents to control temperature (like a carburetor, richer or leaner). I can load up my charcoal and get 8-12 hours out of it without reloading or waking up, depending on outdoor temps and wind.

    Each smoker, even the same make, will be different, and once you learn yours, an overnight smoke can be accomplished with decent sleep based on predictability.

    The good thing about BBQ is that everyone is happy to eat your mistakes, unless you really f’ed up. You will be your own worst critic.

    Lastly, I don’t soak my wood, and intersperse a few in the unlit, and a few on top of the lit. And I now normally don’t use water in the water pan (that’s why yours took so long to come up to temp). I just use the pan as a heat shield and drip pan (a few bricks as heat sink/temp buffer, and cover with foil).
     
  5. Sac Arrow

    Sac Arrow Touchdown! Greaser!

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    Ahhh actually that helped. It turns out that the side door actually DOES have access to the firebox, as well as the lower rack. Go figure I was out eating a burger when I read the post and figured it out. When I got back, I added charcoal just in the nick of time.

    Yeah maybe forgoing the water is the ticket. I was going to cover the pan with foil, but had problems working out the water thing and getting the pan back in to place.

    This thing is going through charcoal though. It's been about three hours and the first load was nearly gone.
     
  6. Matthew

    Matthew Touchdown! Greaser!

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    @Sac Arrow

    I have the Weber version of that:
    [​IMG]

    I haven't seen one of yours in person yet, so I'll rely on your pix.

    1: It looks like you have a "fire ring" (like mine) to hold the coals in the center and allow airflow around them.
    2: It looks like you have a water pan that sits above the coals.
    3: It looks like you have a fairly large door on the side (like the one on mine)

    Tip #1: Load up a chimney with briquets or lump charcoal, or whatever you decide to do. When it's got a really roaring start, dump it all into the fire ring and top off with extra if you think it's necessary. Let the new charcoal get a good start. This is also normally where I'll set the cooking grates on top of the hot coals to burn off and scrape off anything stuck to them from the last time.

    Tip #2: Add plain water to the water pan. Some people will also dump in a frozen can of concentrated apple juice for extra flavor from any steam that comes off. I've done it both ways, but if I want extra flavor from apple juice I'd rather put it in a spray bottle and spritz the meat every now and then so it adds a bit of a glaze to it.

    Tip #3: I'll generally choke down the bottom vents and leave the upper vent open.

    Tip #4: Use chunk wood for flavor, not chips. Chips will simply ignite and burn off too quickly where the chunks will tend to smolder and generate the smoke you want. By choking off the incoming air at the bottom, you can regulate your burning to get a good smoldering fire.

    Tip #5: Look carefully at your side door. If it's anything like mine, you can remove the door, hold the bottom edge of the door against the bottom of the opening and create a coal chute. Then you can start another chimney of coals and dump them right in without having to remove the whole upper assembly. This is also a good place to enable adding extra water to the pan as needed.

    Tip #6: There is always extra room, somewhere, so toss in a pack of hotdogs or brats or whatever will fill the cracks. That way you'll have something to snack on while you wait for everything else to finish.

    Tip #7: Wind plays a big role in temp control. These smokers (mine included) don't have a heavy gauge construction. Wind and rain will suck the heat right out of them. If it's a chilly, windy day, you can either try to move it to a more protected area or try to create some sort of windscreen. Our team smoker (a monster that's built on its own trailer) has some pretty thick steel. There have been times even on that one where I could stand there when the rain starts and watch the thermometers drop.

    edit:

    Tip #8: Get some welding gloves. Makes life so much easier. When you hold the side door open to act as a chute and then pour coals out of the chimney, you'll always end up with some on the ground. Just pick them up and toss them in.
     
  7. Cap'n Jack

    Cap'n Jack Final Approach

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    I've one of those water smokers made by Brinkmann. It didn't have the top or bottom vents, and I modified it to have a bottom vent otherwise the fire would die. Use it on concrete, as you have done in your pictures, as I've had some embers fall out. I'll put a brisket on the bottom, and some pork on the top shelf with some salmon and chicken. After the salmon is done, I'll replace it with chicken. I use a mix of wood and charcoal, some of the wood is hardwood tree trimmings. Once going, I'll add fuel about once an hour. After 6 or 8 hours, I'll bring the brisket in and finish it in the oven for a couple of hours. If I'm doing a mop, I'll do it once an hour since the heat is lost. The water is going to limit your temps to maybe 275° but it does take a bit of time to get it that hot. After the water boils off, the temperature starts to get high quickly. I'll top it off with a watering can with the sprinkler removed.
     
  8. Matthew

    Matthew Touchdown! Greaser!

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    That water pan is generally just to act as a heat buffer between the coals and the meat. Any humidity it adds is a bonus, I guess. You'll find out that anything around the edges of the cooking grates will get done much faster than what's in the center because of extra heat that travels up and around the water pan.
     
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  9. Cap'n Jack

    Cap'n Jack Final Approach

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    It does a good job as a buffer for someone new to BBQ.
     
  10. Matthew

    Matthew Touchdown! Greaser!

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    Here’s a turkey breast I did a while ago. And getting that fire started at oh dark thirty another time.

    AFCE9495-5708-4482-8808-2AFA5CD89BFB.jpeg 860418A4-C6D7-46DB-BA54-395FEE5FD6E8.jpeg D6444C77-4753-402C-BEF6-DBFCCAF6DCBD.jpeg
     
    Last edited: Jan 8, 2022
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  11. Sac Arrow

    Sac Arrow Touchdown! Greaser!

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    I think that one tactical error I made was keeping the vents wide open for too long. I started choking down the bottom vent and vwah lah, the temp climbed over 250. I think the water is pretty much gone. With the coals choked down sufficiently, it may make it the rest of the time on the added coals.
     
  12. Mahneuvers

    Mahneuvers Line Up and Wait

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    Or you can be totally anal like myself and cut the top and bottom off of a large coffee tin. Place the tin in your fire basket. Load your unlit charcoal between the tin and the fire basket wall. Dump your lit charcoal in the can. Then pull the can out. You end up with a doughnut of unlit coals surrounding an burning center creating a very even burning heat source. Leave the smoker alone for 30-40 minutes until you see a "blue" smoke, then add your meat.

    I was very close to buying a Smokey Mountain when someone turned me onto an Ugly Drum Smoker (UDS). My custom rig has been running flawlessly for 15+ years. I can easily get 12+ hours out of it w/o adding fuel. If the wind shifts direction, I might change the orientation to not directly blow into the air intakes. Other than that, it's on auto-pilot. Add a wireless temperature probe and it's smoking heaven :)
     
  13. Busflyer

    Busflyer Pre-takeoff checklist

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    FWIW, I’ve found that 5-6 hours usually works well for ribs. Eight sounds kinda long.
    (I use the Weber Smoky Mountain)
     
  14. Matthew

    Matthew Touchdown! Greaser!

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    Those drums run about $700 new. At contests I’ll see teams with a half dozen. DIY is the way to go for $$$ savings.
     
  15. Mahneuvers

    Mahneuvers Line Up and Wait

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    Yep. I bought my 50 gallon metal drum from a guy on Craig's list for like $10. It used to hold yellow highway center line paint. I think he was ecstatic he got anything for it. The rest of the hardware was like $100. Ironically, replacement WSM grill grates fit nicely into the drum and was the bulk of that cost. I postulate my $110 UDS produces Q as good as those who spent thousands on green eggs (of the same capacity).

    The story of my prepping the 50 gallon metal drum is quite amusing. I had to burn out the paint. I had no idea how much smoke burning paint produces. It's a lot. Of course, I picked a hot, humid, no wind day. The thick, black, choking smoke rose about 20 feet then spread horizontally. Remember when Iraq lit the Kuwait oil fields afire on their retreat? Well, it was similar. The dozen or so houses around me were engulfed smoke reminiscent of a war movie-like battle scene. I'm still surprised no one called the fire department or police :)

    Had I to do it all over again, I might pay the $700 for a commercial product. It was absolutely miserable climbing into the drum with a wire brush drill bit and "sanding" the inner wall. That said, my UDS is 15 years old. This spring, I intend to repaint it. I just might get 30 years out of this thing!
     
  16. PaulS

    PaulS Touchdown! Greaser!

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    Grilla Chimp, pellet smoker, supplemented with wood chips in smoke tube.
     
  17. Sac Arrow

    Sac Arrow Touchdown! Greaser!

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    Pork or beef? I usually go 5-6 hours for pork ribs in the oven. All the BBQ recipes I've seen call for 8 for beef ribs. But, we will see.
     
  18. Sac Arrow

    Sac Arrow Touchdown! Greaser!

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    So far we are looking at about two and a half hours until they are done. I mean, they look done, but I expect that. I did have to add coals once more, and I probably should have added them earlier than I did.

    One annoyance I found was that the bottom vent assembly does not screw on tightly to the base, and the force of opening the vent will rotate it out of its mounting holes. But, at least it doesn't get hot enough to be a problem to reattach by bare hand.
     
  19. Mahneuvers

    Mahneuvers Line Up and Wait

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    I completely understand why those serious enough to enter contests use the UDS design. IMO, a UDS will produce better results than any other vertical smoker with a water pan configuration. The main flaw of a WSM (and similar designs) is, b/c the heat source is so close to the meat, and b/c the cooking chamber volume is so small, you have no choice but to use a water pan. The water pan greatly reduces the flavors associated with dripping fat which is atomized upon making contact with the heat source. I had a gas powered water smoker before my UDS. I liked the gas design b/c I didn't have to fuss with charcoal on long smokes. The UDS affords for long smokes w/o fuss and, given the chamber volume, all you need is a heat diffuser (in my case, a deep dish pizza pan into which I drilled holes) to protect the meat.
     
    Last edited: Jan 8, 2022
  20. Dave Theisen

    Dave Theisen En-Route PoA Supporter

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    All this work, and you’re just going to wrap it in lettuce. :)
     
  21. Matthew

    Matthew Touchdown! Greaser!

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    Diffusing heat in a bullet smoker like a WSM is a big deal, otherwise you get too hot and you can get big temp swings. That water has enough thermal mass to make a big difference in heat regulation. As far as drippings falling onto the fire: in drums that’s going to be a plus, but until they came around, offset smokers and bullet smokers prevent that.

    I’ve competed for 30+ years until I retired from it last year. I’ve judged maybe 4(?) yrs now.

    Drum smokers are everywhere on the contest circuits. One of the major players is near St Louis and their brand is by far the most popular. Some old school judges don’t like them. They tend to cook hotter and faster. The result is a brisket that looks more like roast beef. The technicality on that is the smoke ring is NOT to be judged. So not being able to see a smoke ring can’t be used to penalize a team. However, the appearance score is subjective, “how much does it make you want to eat it?”, so there is some wiggle room.

    Where I used to see teams with 5-6 Weber bullets (like my team before we upgraded), now I see teams with 5-6 drums.



    Side note: a buddy used to cater bbq to a local bar and grill for their bbq night special. Since he ran a commercial operation, he couldn’t use his home built contest smoker. It was built out of some sort of drum or tank, but since he bought it used and repurposed it into a smoker he wasn’t allowed to use it because, in his words, “I couldn’t prove that there was not a single molecule of whatever was originally stored in that tank.” That’s the first thing that popped into my head when I read about your highway paint.
     
  22. Busflyer

    Busflyer Pre-takeoff checklist

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    Pork. I see now you were doing beef. Disregard.
     
  23. Sac Arrow

    Sac Arrow Touchdown! Greaser!

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    So this is the state of the ribs and firebox at this point in time. 5CBDBD8A-9DCB-4780-AAE2-301E47CB6F87.jpeg
     
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  24. Mahneuvers

    Mahneuvers Line Up and Wait

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    I could tell from your posts you are quite knowledgeable. It's great you are so willing to share your knowledge. That's uncommon. I had a relative who used to complete and he wouldn't tell me a thing!
     
  25. Matthew

    Matthew Touchdown! Greaser!

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    There are few secrets. It’s more trends than anything. Some team starts winning and they happen to use a drum. So everyone says, “Well, it can’t be that *I* am the problem!” and then everyone starts using drums.

    Burnt ends are another example. Used to be that chopped or diced was the norm, now it’s cubes and they keep getting larger.

    Wagyu or SRF briskets are another thing. Yes, they are outstanding. But they are so expensive that generally only well connected teams can afford them. Since bbq was a way to take a tough cut, brisket, and turn it into moist, tender deliciousness using one of those briskets does over 50% of the work for you. If I were King of All BBQ Contests, I would provide each team 2 random briskets, all prime and none Wagyu. Give everyone a fighting chance with the same brisket you can get at Costco or Sam’s.
     
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  26. Sac Arrow

    Sac Arrow Touchdown! Greaser!

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    Absolutely. The advice @Matthew gives is on spot. But, there is no substitute for just doing it, f****ing it up and learning. I am learning new things by the minute. Or the hour rather, this is slow cooking.
     
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  27. Sac Arrow

    Sac Arrow Touchdown! Greaser!

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    Yep!
     
  28. Matthew

    Matthew Touchdown! Greaser!

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    And always remember that everyone will have their own “home flavor” and there’s absolutely nothing wrong with that. That’s one thing that makes bbq great, the regional differences. And they are all delicious!
     
  29. Mahneuvers

    Mahneuvers Line Up and Wait

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    It's interesting you should make this point. Until about 5 years ago, I had given up on brisket. Then someone gave me Franklin's book. He mentioned only using prime beef b/c of the consistent marbling. That, and a few other tips from his book, I'm now making brisket regularly with rave revues. The quality of the meet you start with makes all the difference. And at Costco etc, you can get prime at a reasonable price.
     
  30. Matthew

    Matthew Touchdown! Greaser!

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    I think we cooked a Wagyu (American) and got a ribbon but we had a pretty generous sponsor. Normally we use prime.

    Hint: brisket, like most beef, can take a lot of black pepper. Don’t be shy of using a brisket rub that’s heavy in black pepper.

    I really like this one:
    https://www.oakridgebbq.com/?product=signature-edition-black-ops-brisket-rub
     
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  31. Matthew

    Matthew Touchdown! Greaser!

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    Oh, my. Those look great. Did you try any wood chunks?

    Conventional wisdom is that meat stops absorbing smoke flavor after about 4 hrs. So after that I wouldn’t bother.
     
  32. Sac Arrow

    Sac Arrow Touchdown! Greaser!

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    yes.
     
  33. Sac Arrow

    Sac Arrow Touchdown! Greaser!

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    So here we go damn, the taste is incredible But there was burnt stuff too . The beef that didn’t get burned, dayum! A711EB3F-1C20-4C25-8A26-0F4000C173AA.jpeg
     
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  34. Sac Arrow

    Sac Arrow Touchdown! Greaser!

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    So I’m going to post a partial success. It worked. There are some things I would have done differently. I'm not sure about the water vs non water thing. Certainly some of them were crispy critters but yet there was a fair amount of tender, moist juicy yummy beef in there too.
     
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  35. Matthew

    Matthew Touchdown! Greaser!

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    Here are some beef ribs we did. These were dinosaur cut, I think we did 70#. There’s a pic of them on the smoker along with spares and a turkey breast.


    2BD5E624-8B96-423C-90C9-9ECCDECE7E93.jpeg 392A7D8E-4534-4CCF-AAD4-8C923ACB2283.jpeg
     
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  36. Sac Arrow

    Sac Arrow Touchdown! Greaser!

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    Oh that looks nice!
     
  37. GaryM

    GaryM Pattern Altitude

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    Sounds like a win for the first attempt!
    If you don’t already have them, I recommend investing in two thermometers.
    1) An instant read, so you quickly spot check temperatures in the meat without leaving the smoker open for more than a few seconds.
    2) A two probe thermometer, with thermocouples feeding into a smoker-side unit with temp display, and a remote unit that can display those temps, usually from a few hundred feet away. I’m assuming your smoker has a silicon gasket in the side through which you can thread the wires. That will let you monitor smoker temp with one probe, and meat temp with the other, without having to stay near the smoker. Most have a minimum/maximum temp alarm, which is handy if you want to get some sleep during during overnight smokes.
    You’ll see the thermometer in the smoker lid doesn’t accurately show smoker temp at the food level.
     
  38. asicer

    asicer Final Approach

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    Congrats!
     
  39. JOhnH

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    @Sac Arrow
    This is my favorite bbq thread ever! My mouth is watering. And thank you too @Matthew .

    I have lamented several times how much I love good beef ribs and how hard they are to find. Last year a friend invited me over to have some of his "famous" beef ribs. But he cooked them on a gas grill in about 3 hours. :hairraise:

    He said he got a late start and this way was faster. I don't speak to him much any more. They just tasted like over cooked beef. Ok, they were a little better than that, but not what I was anticipating, so it was a big let-down.
     
  40. Matthew

    Matthew Touchdown! Greaser!

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    E164B959-4C12-4224-9420-DC8781B7BFEA.jpeg
     
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