900+ hours and still learning basic stuff

There is a VOR nearby named RMG. There is also an airport 20 miles away KRMG. Now how would ATC want me to file that?

Not sure if you are testing us here, or genuinely don't know, but file to the one to which you want to go. And if you get a clearance to RMG, make sure they mean the vor. Around here most of the VORs are being decommissioned, so this is less of an issue.
 
I’ve got 750 hours or so. Recently filed this flight -lan. KBCT KLAL KOCF KAUO. When ATC started questioning me about landing at KLAL it caught me totally off guard. I’d never heard to not use the K if simplying over flying the field. Now I know
Best not to do it. Controller gonna be scratchin' his head wondering what's up. This guy wanna shoot a couple practice approaches at Ocala and Lakeland on his way to Boca or sumpin'. He can't read your mind so he's gotta ask ya wazup.
 
RMG ?? How's that fit in here on the KBCT KAUO flight?

I’ve got 750 hours or so. Recently filed this flight -lan. KBCT KLAL KOCF KAUO. When ATC started questioning me about landing at KLAL it caught me totally off guard. I’d never heard to not use the K if simplying over flying the field. Now I know

I also have never heard of "not use the K if simplying over flying the field".

I don't see how that would work in the following scenario. If I made a flight plan wanting to overfly KRMG airport, and I left the "K" off because I simply wanted to over fly it, I would put in "RMG". Which now looks like I want to fly over the VOR, not the KRMG airport.
 
I can see why not using an airport in an IFR plan would simplify things. Especially if there is a VOR nearby.

Of course, I have yet to not have them drop my entire route and give me a totally different one, or direct, one of the two. Kinda irks me.
 
That isn't a new tool. It's an old tool, and it's usually the wrong tool. You gain speed by diving, speed that you then have to bleed off somehow, and most guys end up floating far down the runway, waiting for it to bleed off. Slowing below best glide works better, but yeah, watch the airspeed.

Even better is to plan the approach properly and not find yourself high.
Always remember @Salty, for everything you learn in aviation, there's always someone there to point out that you're wrong! :rolleyes:
 
I also have never heard of "not use the K if simplying over flying the field".

I don't see how that would work in the following scenario. If I made a flight plan wanting to overfly KRMG airport, and I left the "K" off because I simply wanted to over fly it, I would put in "RMG". Which now looks like I want to fly over the VOR, not the KRMG airport.
Gotcha. An example.
 
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...I have yet to not have them drop my entire route and give me a totally different one, or direct, one of the two. Kinda irks me.

Same... A couple weeks ago, I wanted to go from Peter O (TPF) to Melbourne. Storms came through the Tampa area, so we waited to depart. The storms pretty much hung out between Tampa and Melbourne and further to the North. Weather was clear to the South (through the Restricted areas and near Okeechobee). I filed a route down that way and over and back up to MLB. They returned the "Expected" pretty much as direct (or almost)... which is the typical route they'll give. So I called up Tampa CD and asked how to get routed to the South and around the storms. The answer was pretty much file it direct, then when picking up the clearance ask for a Southerly departure for weather. They worked it out and I flew almost exactly what I originally wanted, but what I filed was pretty much direct. Learned a little that evening/night - a quick phone call can sometimes help a whole lot!!
 
I was flying with and instructor recently and we were high on approach with flaps in and I was slowing below best glide to sink better and he asked “why don’t you push the nose down”? Well, I’ve been playing with that ever since and I’ll be darned if it doesn’t work really well as long as the circumstances warrant it. In a draggy plane it slows right back down again and you stay further from stall speed and can see better to boot.
I spend a lot of time thinking about the "pitch for speed, power for altitude" mantra, and I just don't think there's a simple way to boil it down. Flying is dynamic. For example, on approach if you're too fast and your rate of descent is too great, just pull the nose up slightly. No need to adjust power. You will slow down and your rate of descent will decrease. Two birds, one stone.

In any event I'm always open to new ways of looking at things. And being willing to learn is a good thing.
 
Sounds like your friend didn't follow the notam which explicitly states "no S-turns" and to break off the approach and start over. Not all planes are capable of 90 knots, I followed a bushcat in pedalling as fast as possible at 80 knots and I survived. Blaming others for poor airmanship is a bad look.

Aircraft in front of him was capable of 90 knots.

Yes, he should not have S turned. But he should not have needed to.
 
Same... A couple weeks ago, I wanted to go from Peter O (TPF) to Melbourne. Storms came through the Tampa area, so we waited to depart. The storms pretty much hung out between Tampa and Melbourne and further to the North. Weather was clear to the South (through the Restricted areas and near Okeechobee). I filed a route down that way and over and back up to MLB. They returned the "Expected" pretty much as direct (or almost)... which is the typical route they'll give. So I called up Tampa CD and asked how to get routed to the South and around the storms. The answer was pretty much file it direct, then when picking up the clearance ask for a Southerly departure for weather. They worked it out and I flew almost exactly what I originally wanted, but what I filed was pretty much direct. Learned a little that evening/night - a quick phone call can sometimes help a whole lot!!
Yeah, you can work through it, but sometimes it's just annoying. Like, when I fly to Key West from Tampa, I like to hug the coast a little, so I'll file via GOODY or DEEDS, and invariably they will give me direct and put me way out over the gulf. Yeah, you just have to tell them what you want to get it. But I already did that when I filed!
 
I can see why not using an airport in an IFR plan would simplify things. Especially if there is a VOR nearby.

Of course, I have yet to not have them drop my entire route and give me a totally different one, or direct, one of the two. Kinda irks me.
Question I got is why do it at all? If your filing via Direct airports, it means you have RNAV. There thousands of Airways and Waypoints out there. Why not just use Enroutey kinds of things for the Enroute part of the Flight Plan. Like you said, that’s what they usually do when you get the Clearance.
 
Yeah, you can work through it, but sometimes it's just annoying. Like, when I fly to Key West from Tampa, I like to hug the coast a little, so I'll file via GOODY or DEEDS, and invariably they will give me direct and put me way out over the gulf. Yeah, you just have to tell them what you want to get it. But I already did that when I filed!
Exactly!
 
Question I got is why do it at all? If your filing via Direct airports, it means you have RNAV. There thousands of Airways and Waypoints out there. Why not just use Enroutey kinds of things for the Enroute part of the Flight Plan. Like you said, that’s what they usually do when you get the Clearance.
Agree
 
Nearly 1000 hours and a glider rating and I’m happy but embarrassed to have just learned a new tool.

my glider instructor screamed at me if I went too fast in the pattern so that’s my excuse for this. Lame I know. I mean, I knew this cognitively, but didn’t use it.

I was flying with and instructor recently and we were high on approach with flaps in and I was slowing below best glide to sink better and he asked “why don’t you push the nose down”? Well, I’ve been playing with that ever since and I’ll be darned if it doesn’t work really well as long as the circumstances warrant it. In a draggy plane it slows right back down again and you stay further from stall speed and can see better to boot.

I love having a new tool.
Just to be clear, were you in a glider or a powered plane when you were high on that approach?
 
Powered aircraft. cezzna 150
Ah ok. I thought it was a glider in which case I'd have nothing to offer on the matter.

What was your throttle setting? If you were full flaps and power-out, were your only choices at that point forward slip, "lower the nose" technique you were encouraged to try, S-turns, or go around? If you had any power in I'd think you'd take that out before messing with your speed or coordination. If power was already out and it was me, I'd just forward slip. I'd be interested to see math or tests for a few common aircraft including a C150 for the effect of increasing your decreasing your speed from the normal approach speed... I generally think it's a bad idea to mess with speed for approaching a runway, though.
 
I was slowing down a bit to see what happened next. In Florida, you'll often hit some sink and the problem resolves itself, so I generally don't do anything drastic if I'm even close. If that didn't suffice, I would have slipped. But pointing the nose down and speeding up worked even better in that particular case. Especially if you had a passenger that wouldn't appreciate a slip.
 
I thought it was a glider in which case I'd have nothing to offer on the matter.

In a glider this is probably a bad idea due to the difficulty in bleeding off the extra energy. I never tried it though as my instructor wouldn't let me get even a little bit fast. ;)
 
Absolutely. And thank goodness, or I'd have missed the runway every time. lol

Most times, I found spoilers to be enough.

Not sure why more GA planes don't have them. At least the higher performance ones.
 
... I used it today when circumstances beyond my control put me very high very close to the numbers in a draggy 150 with 40 degree flaps. I landed on the numbers with the stall alarm chirping using this technique. No floating.

In Draggy airplanes it does work quite well. I seem to recall something in my aerodynamics book about Drag increasing exponentially with additional velocity. Both techniques work, which one works best depends on the situation and the airplane.

In less draggy airplanes, just aim shorter so you can pitch up at about 100 feet or so and still cross that threshold at about your normal approach speed.

Brian
 
Can you slip a glider?

Yes, some quite well, Did my first Glider Slip on my Private Glider Checkride. Found out the Blanik rudder is about 3 times as effective as a Cessna Rudder. Felt like we yawed about 70 degrees from the from the runway heading, but it did keep me from overshooting my spot landing.

Brian
 
In a glider this is probably a bad idea due to the difficulty in bleeding off the extra energy. I never tried it though as my instructor wouldn't let me get even a little bit fast. ;)

Depends on the glider, some with rather weak Spoilers/Dive Brakes it is probably a bad idea to get very fast and much more effective to slow down. Others like the Blanik or my HP16T with 90 degree Speed limiting flaps adding speed works very well.

Brian
 
Low, slow, turning. A tendency to use shallow bank with more rudder to turn faster, leads to stall, spin, crash, and burn.

Lost a friend who crashed at Oshkosh trying to S-turn behind some moron who did not follow the NOTAM on speeds.
I'm sorry for your loss.

Proper turns are critical in the pattern. Coordinated prefered though slipping turns can certainly be a tool. I have used S turns on final to give room to someone in front. If these things exceed your skill level, don't do them. Last week I used a 360 left turn on right base to give room to the student in front who was dragging his 172 in. It worked for all of us. But I am very aware of airspeeds in the pattern and was trained to be mindful but do what you need to to make the pattern work.

John
 
Most times, I found spoilers to be enough.

Not sure why more GA planes don't have them. At least the higher performance ones.
The glider I flew most didn’t have spoilers.
 
Question I got is why do it at all? If your filing via Direct airports, it means you have RNAV. There thousands of Airways and Waypoints out there. Why not just use Enroutey kinds of things for the Enroute part of the Flight Plan. Like you said, that’s what they usually do when you get the Clearance.
I've thought about it just to fly over as many airports as possible in case I needed one unexpectedly.
 
KLAL has a VOR colocated at the airport named LAL. Seems like the controller inappropriately over-extrapolated a specific scenario to a general one (or the receiver misunderstood).
 
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Doing a go-around has saved a lot of bent metal. It’s a great tool.
 
Putting the nose down loses altitude..??
Who knew??

That said, it seems to me that is trading potential energy for kinetic. Still must disípate energy, just a different kind. I’m not sure how I see “draggy” as a valid argument, as it will draggy in both phases of flight.

Sorry,….
1) Have not read all responses. Perhaps I should have.
2) Not a glider pilot.
3) Not an aeronautical engineer.
 
@Kritchlow
upload_2022-9-18_14-38-42-png.110633
 
Putting the nose down loses altitude..??
Who knew??
That said, it seems to me that is trading potential energy for kinetic. Still must disípate energy, just a different kind. I’m not sure how I see “draggy” as a valid argument, as it will draggy in both phases of flight.
.
Trade potential for Kinetic is exactly right. In a car, brakes convert some into heat, slowing the car. In a plane, things like speed brakes convert that potential energy into drag/turbulence slowing down the plane so it goes down more steeply, but does not gain as much speed (kinetic energy) as it would in slippery mode. A high performance sailplane would demonstrate this best. Speed brakes extended, nose down it goes down. No speed brakes, nose down you accelerate and can go the whole length of the runway in ground effect and do a wingover at the other end and come back and land. Same potential energy in both cases. Knowing how draggy or slippery your particular aircraft is lets you know the extent to which you can get down by steepening your descent. Not an aeronautical engineer, nor have I stayed in a Holiday Inn Express recently.
 
I was taught you never stop learning about aviation. Especially for someone like myself that have only been a pilot for 7 years.
I don't get what you are saying Salty? If I need to get down without picking up speed I slip the plane down. Is that not the best thing to do sometimes?

I am very lucky to become good friends with a 41 year pilot who is a Captain and check airmen for a major airline. I learn so much from him just about every time we fly together. Lately he signed me off for my complex rating after learning to fly his arrow. I got to help with the annual. Good way to get to know the airplane.
That is Greg on the right who owns the arrow that I got to fly 2.2hrs this day and Jim his 40 year AP/IA and best friend. Jim was reinstalling the muffler heat sheild that he repaired. Earlier this day we stopped at Tiffen Ohio to have a prop AD done to the hub of the propeller. Then off to Cleveland for the annual.
IMG_2256.JPG
 
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Slipping works just fine. But it has it's limits, and it's not very pleasant for passengers that aren't excited about flying.

Look at the graph above. As you speed up past best glide, total drag starts to increase very quickly. This means that even though you are pointed down, you're loosing more energy to drag. So, maybe a slip isn't always needed, depending on circumstances.

It's a little counter-intuitive to speed up in order to stop sooner, but it's true. Just like pulling back doesn't make you glide further once you get below best glide.... Just the other side of the power curve. Which is a another good thing about speeding up to add drag instead of slowing down. It keeps you on the positive side of the power curve.
 
Slipping works just fine. But it has it's limits, and it's not very pleasant for passengers that aren't excited about flying.

Look at the graph above. As you speed up past best glide, total drag starts to increase very quickly. This means that even though you are pointed down, you're loosing more energy to drag. So, maybe a slip isn't always needed, depending on circumstances.

It's a little counter-intuitive to speed up in order to stop sooner, but it's true. Just like pulling back doesn't make you glide further once you get below best glide.... Just the other side of the power curve. Which is a another good thing about speeding up to add drag instead of slowing down. It keeps you on the positive side of the power curve.

I see, thanks for that and makes sense.
 
Of course, I have yet to not have them drop my entire route and give me a totally different one, or direct, one of the two. Kinda irks me.

Funny - exactly what my CFII told me before my IFR X Country. She said there are three flight plans. 1) The one you file, 2) the one they give you on the ground to plug into your GTN, and 3) the one they give you in the air.

Lately I've just been doing 1 and 3, unless the one I filed unless it was short for training or for flying to the other side of the Atlanta Bravo.
 
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The glider I flew most didn’t have spoilers.

Which one? Flaps?

All the ones I have flown have had spoilers, but not have had flaps. 2-33, 1-26, 1-36, Grob 102 and Grob 103
 
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