60 Minutes Episode Today

I

Iflydogs

Pre-takeoff checklist
Joined
Feb 12, 2022
Messages
242
Location
KMRB
Display Name
Iflydogs
Home Airfield
KMRB
60 Minutes has a piece about a twin-engine plane (Skyvan PA-51) used by the 1970s Argentinian military junta to disappear some of the 30k they got rid of then— the victims were flown out into the Atlantic ocean and pushed out, still alive.
Apparently the plane was sold to someone in the US who used it as a skydiving plane. A journalist tracked it down to Ft Lauderdale, where theyexamined the logs.
60 Minutes says the aircraft logs show all the flights, departing on a strip on the coast and returning to the same place.

Is this valid? I do not log flights in my plane’s log. Something sounds fishy. Is this an Argentinian requirement, or did the journalists get it wrong?
 
Iflydogs said:
60 Minutes has a piece about a twin-engine plane (Skyvan PA-51) used by the 1970s Argentinian military junta to disappear some of the 30k they got rid of then— the victims were flown out into the Atlantic ocean and pushed out, still alive.
Apparently the plane was sold to someone in the US who used it as a skydiving plane. A journalist tracked it down to Ft Lauderdale, where theyexamined the logs.
60 Minutes says the aircraft logs show all the flights, departing on a strip on the coast and returning to the same place.

Is this valid? I do not log flights in my plane’s log. Something sounds fishy. Is this an Argentinian requirement, or did the journalists get it wrong?
Click to expand...
The early engine logs of my 1963 Colt have flight data in them similar to what I would log in my personal log. I saw a few other older airplanes with similar logs when I was looking to buy a plane.
 
Iflydogs said:
60 Minutes has a piece about a twin-engine plane (Skyvan PA-51) used by the 1970s Argentinian military junta to disappear some of the 30k they got rid of then— the victims were flown out into the Atlantic ocean and pushed out, still alive.
Apparently the plane was sold to someone in the US who used it as a skydiving plane. A journalist tracked it down to Ft Lauderdale, where theyexamined the logs.
60 Minutes says the aircraft logs show all the flights, departing on a strip on the coast and returning to the same place.

Is this valid? I do not log flights in my plane’s log. Something sounds fishy. Is this an Argentinian requirement, or did the journalists get it wrong?
Click to expand...
Pressurized and Turbine aircraft often have maintenance requirements that are based on landings, cycles, etc and so it is common to have an aircraft log with start/end time, landings, cycles, etc in it.

Newer aircraft have avionics that handle this sort of thing automatically, but older ones will generally have a paper log.
 
The early logbooks (those I had, some were missing) for my 1941 T-Craft showed individual flights. Must have been a requirement then, dunno when it was changed. I believe some countries (including Canada?) still require an aircraft "journey log".
 
I've seen logbooks from Mexico and South Africa that had such entries included with the regular maintenance logs.
 
If you don't have a Hobbs or a recording tach, how else would you track the time on the aircraft?
 
Iflydogs said:
Is this valid? I do not log flights in my plane’s log. Something sounds fishy. Is this an Argentinian requirement, or did the journalists get it wrong?
Click to expand...
In some countries and operations, it is required. For example, I believe Canada still has a requirement for a separate aircraft journey log. But you'll also find a number of pre-printed logbooks that are available will have a journey portion included with a mx entry pages. Does it sound plausible to have such a record? Sure, based on the various aircraft records I've reviewed over the years.
 
EAA used to sell a "Custom-Built Airplane" logbook. The front matter dealt with the construction details, pilots checked out in the aircraft, etc. but the bulk of the logbook has the same columns as a pilot's log, with slots for From, To, Remarks, etc.
1741020024233.png
EAA replaced this format with something closer to a standard aircraft log.

Ron Wanttaja
 
Iflydogs said:
60 Minutes has a piece about a twin-engine plane (Skyvan PA-51) used by the 1970s Argentinian military junta to disappear some of the 30k they got rid of then— the victims were flown out into the Atlantic ocean and pushed out, still alive.
Click to expand...
Imagine finding out your plane had been used for this. I'd be devastated. Can't even imagine.
 
Capt. Geoffrey Thorpe said:
If you don't have a Hobbs or a recording tach, how else would you track the time on the aircraft?
Click to expand...
I've never seen an airplane without *some* mechanical means of tracking airframe time. Otherwise, it'd be far too easy to say "oh, this logbook has all the flights in it. Yeah, it's a low time airframe."

Tach is one way, but I've seen Hobbs meters all over the place, usually accessible somewhere even if it's not in the panel. Mine's in the baggage compartment. I've seen others in nose baggage.
 
So-called ‘Journey logs’ are considered mandatory in many or most places in the world, and it does not surprise me that they would be in use in 1970s Argentina. The practice is related to an ancient ICAO requirement for international flights, and since in e.g. Europe a flight of any length tends to be international (also with flight plan filed) the journey log requirement is gold plated into an every flight requirement. We are lucky in the US, as usual.

In some places if you go for a short jaunt in a twin you make at least four logbook entries: one for the airframe, one for each engine, and one for the pilot. I’ve forgotten whether it’s needed for the propellers. Detailed pilot logbook entries are required not only for demonstrating 90 day currency but also for rating renewals. Although the license may be for life, all ratings expire and renewal may optionally be done by demonstrating experience.
 
Last edited:
An airplane was used a as tool for murder, and now people jump willingly out of it, and you found the logs odd? :lol:
 
Gilbert Buettner said:
The network's highest rated news program for many years, and ranked number three of all CBS programs last February.
Click to expand...

In a way it reminds me of some other shows (SNL comes to mind) where they were pretty good at first but didn't remain so. Folks watch because they are used to it and don't realize the degradation of what passes for real news these days ...

I have no problem with anyone watching it but it ain't for me.
 
NealRomeoGolf said:
My Seneca has journey logs from when it lived in Canada.
Click to expand...

Yup, Canadian registered planes have journey logs. Just one journey log, not separate ones for engine, airframe, etc. but still, you have to record every flight. In addition, you also have to carry the journey log on the plane if you go further than 25 nm from your departure airport. Or was it 50 nm? I carry it with me all the time anyways so doesn't matter that much to me.
 
flyingcheesehead said:
I've never seen an airplane without *some* mechanical means of tracking airframe time. Otherwise, it'd be far too easy to say "oh, this logbook has all the flights in it. Yeah, it's a low time airframe."

Tach is one way, but I've seen Hobbs meters all over the place, usually accessible somewhere even if it's not in the panel. Mine's in the baggage compartment. I've seen others in nose baggage.
Click to expand...
No hobbs meter installed in my plane. It was removed years ago by a mechanic. The logbook entry says it was an unauthorized meter, not sure how a hobbs is unauthorized but they removed it and never installed another. We use tach time for everything and when I log flight time I manually record start and stop times then do the math.
 
So basically that aircraft's entire flying history consisted of flights taking up a bunch of people, and landing with a lot less.

But yeah, I'm glad it wasn't me who owned it when it was located. For the same reason I don't collect military weapons.
 
Will Kumley said:
No hobbs meter installed in my plane. It was removed years ago by a mechanic. The logbook entry says it was an unauthorized meter, not sure how a hobbs is unauthorized but they removed it and never installed another. We use tach time for everything and when I log flight time I manually record start and stop times then do the math.
Click to expand...
But you have a tach, and thus a mechanical means of tracking airframe time.

Most airplanes with a (mechanical, not electronic) tach use the tach time for tracking total airframe and engine time. Some people use the electronic tachs for this too, though they're often less favorable.

My airplane doesn't have a recording tach, so it has the maintenance Hobbs in the back.
 
flyingcheesehead said:
But you have a tach, and thus a mechanical means of tracking airframe time.

Most airplanes with a (mechanical, not electronic) tach use the tach time for tracking total airframe and engine time. Some people use the electronic tachs for this too, though they're often less favorable.

My airplane doesn't have a recording tach, so it has the maintenance Hobbs in the back.
Click to expand...
Quite a few of the airplanes I’ve flown didn’t have any mechanical or electronic means for recording flight time. It was all done by pilot logging.
 
Last edited:
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top