3rd class to basic med question

Ozone

Ozone

Pre-takeoff checklist
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Ozone
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My primary care doctor balked at the seemingly large amount of paperwork.

Since I am also a physician, can I self-certify for basic med?

Short of that, does anyone know of a doctor in the twin cities area who does basic med paperwork?
 
I don’t know of a reg prohibiting you from signing it yourself, but why not offer to complete the form so your doc can just review and sign?
 
Half Fast said:
I don’t know of a reg prohibiting you from signing it yourself, but why not offer to complete the form so your doc can just review and sign?
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Sigh… that didn’t work.
 
A lot of paperwork? It's one page with a bunch of check boxes. I had to send my current doctor an article that says "Yes, you as a non-AME can do this" but after she read that she was fine. Yeah, if they're doing it right they also read over your questionaire (mine even updated mine with the drug she proscribed for me during that exam).

It's only slightly more involved than the one that the dive operators want you to have signed off (or the one I had to get to run a European marathon).
 
Well, I haven’t checked. But since a CFI cannot endorse himself for checkride or flight reviews, etcetera common sense (which isn’t so common) would suggest a physician could not self certify his own Basic Med (or any other medical).
 
Got a Basic Med physical from my PCP for the first time a few months back. (Been getting it from my AME until he retired.)

I explained Basic Med to my PCP this way.

> Basic Med allows me as a pilot to use my drivers license in lieu of a medical as long as I get a physical every 4 years and do some online continual education.
> If asked, I need to prove I've had a physical.
> The form I am asking you to sign is my proof I've had a physical.
> The form does not get sent to anyone (i.e., the FAA) - it's for my records only.

Doc: "So I just need to examine you for the items listed and sign?"
Me: "Yup"
Doc: "OK"

I think it helped I had an established relationship with my PCP. I would not ask for a Basic Med physical if it was my first visit to the doc.

Furthermore, don't just hand the form to the doc. Take the time to educate them and what exactly you are asking them to do. It's two pieces of paper, one of which is just checkboxes, and the other a signature line. The "paperwork" is next to minimal.
 
Papa Pilot said:
Got a Basic Med physical from my PCP for the first time a few months back. (Been getting it from my AME until he retired.)

I explained Basic Med to my PCP this way.

> Basic Med allows me as a pilot to use my drivers license in lieu of a medical as long as I get a physical every 4 years and do some online continual education.
> If asked, I need to prove I've had a physical.
> The form I am asking you to sign is my proof I've had a physical.
> The form does not get sent to anyone (i.e., the FAA) - it's for my records only.

Doc: "So I just need to examine you for the items listed and sign?"
Me: "Yup"
Doc: "OK"

I think it helped I had an established relationship with my PCP. I would not ask for a Basic Med physical if it was my first visit to the doc.

Furthermore, don't just hand the form to the doc. Take the time to educate them and what exactly you are asking them to do. It's two pieces of paper, one of which is just checkboxes, and the other a signature line. The "paperwork" is next to minimal.
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That’s very much like the conversation I had with my PCP.
 
I’m completely flabbergasted that a physician can’t find a physician friend to do their BasicMed.

And no, regardless of whether there is a regulation or not, I would not recommend self-certifying something that from a reasonable standpoint calls for third-party review of what you are saying.
 
You do have to put the exam info in when you do the online course. The FAA abuses their exemption from the Privacy Act by publicizing this information to everyone.
 
Ozone said:
My primary care doctor balked at the seemingly large amount of paperwork….
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One page of instructions and one page for the box checking is an inordinate amount of paperwork for a person that makes their living off insurance billing?

That in and of itself should leave you questioning this person’s capacity as a health care provider.

Ozone said:
…Since I am also a physician, can I self-certify for basic med?…
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Physician heal thyself is a new one for me in the BasicMed Q&A. 14 CFR 68 doesn’t explicitly prohibit it, but how are you going to ethically comply with 14 CFR 68.7(c)(4)?

To sign the checklist, stating: “I certify that I discussed all items on this checklist with the individual during my examination, discussed any medications the individual is taking that could interfere with his or her ability to safely operate an aircraft or motor vehicle, and performed an examination that included all of the items on this checklist. I certify that I am not aware of any medical condition that, as presently treated, could interfere with the individual's ability to safely operate an aircraft.”;
 
flyingron said:
You do have to put the exam info in when you do the online course. The FAA abuses their exemption from the Privacy Act by publicizing this information to everyone.
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It’s a way for a flight school to quickly obtain independent verification of the existence of currency. Yeah, I guess the privacy protection could be improved by requiring formal consent and PRD access. But the existence of medical currency seems a pretty minimal invasion compared to what Google and Facebook publish about us.
 
midlifeflyer said:
It’s a way for a flight school to quickly obtain independent verification of the existence of currency. Yeah, I guess the privacy protection could be improved by requiring formal consent and PRD access. But the existence of medical currency seems a pretty minimal invasion compared to what Google and Facebook publish about us.
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It's an unconscionable invasion of privacy. The flight schools can bloody well verify the paperwork. GOOGLE doesn't tell people personal details on my medical status nor about my certificates and ratings. The FAA is supposed to let you opt out of this, but they have their heads up their posteriors on the subject. The air safety argument goes out the window because airlines are supposed to using PRD.
 
flyingron said:
It's an unconscionable invasion of privacy. The flight schools can bloody well verify the paperwork. GOOGLE doesn't tell people personal details on my medical status nor about my certificates and ratings. The FAA is supposed to let you opt out of this, but they have their heads up their posteriors on the subject. The air safety argument goes out the window because airlines are supposed to using PRD.
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How does my flight school "verify my paperwork"? Check online, to the existing source, that they already use? It gives out little information, and I was asked about it in any case.
 
FAA has no copy of your Basic Med exam. They just know that you did it, and name of doctor.
 
flyingron said:
The flight schools can bloody well verify the paperwork
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Perhaps it should be a PRD function or otherwise improved. From an unconscionability standpoint, I'm far more concerned with the certificate suspension/revocation intimated by looking up someone in the public airman database and finding this than with someone learning I hold certain certifications. I can't think of any good reason for this information to be publicly available.

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As a flight school applicant, I would be far more concerned with a request from a flight school to see my CMES - that would be unconscionable in my lexicon.

But admittedly, I think of these things in relative terms rather than as absolutes. YMMV.
 
I'm not old enough to have lived in a time where the conscionability of a rule was "a thing". :confused:
 
AZEL said:
I'm not old enough to have lived in a time where the conscionability of a rule was "a thing". :confused:
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Like now? :D

Although the legal principle typically applies to contracts; the generic term is definitely applicable to most anyhting.
 
As a physician who signed a few of these early on, but then was told to stop, the rationale from legal was that they weren't sure what liability is incurred signing this form, so it's not worth the $85 dollars we might otherwise charge.

Most docs dislike DOT, sports physicals, scuba physicals, pre employment physicals. The legal risk is low, but not zero. The problem is the reward is low, and, well, they are boring, so why would I do these?

Most docs don't do them because, well, they don't want to... though I guess at the right price you might get more docs doing them.

Heck, I'm in the same boat. None of my doc friends want to sign my basic med form, so I'm going to see one of our local chiropractors who does a little dot/basic med on the side to sign off on it. Sigh...at least it looks way better than me signing my own form.
 
midlifeflyer said:
Perhaps it should be a PRD function or otherwise improved. From an unconscionability standpoint, I'm far more concerned with the certificate suspension/revocation intimated by looking up someone in the public airman database and finding this than with someone learning I hold certain certifications. I can't think of any good reason for this information to be publicly available.

View attachment 148902
As a flight school applicant, I would be far more concerned with a request from a flight school to see my CMES - that would be unconscionable in my lexicon.

But admittedly, I think of these things in relative terms rather than as absolutes. YMMV.
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Nobody had a good reason for any of this to be public except for the bleating of the commercial interests like John & Martha King. The airman database is a major source for them complete with an indication of to what courses to target the mailings.
 
Mark K said:
Most docs dislike DOT, sports physicals, scuba physicals, pre employment physicals. The legal risk is low, but not zero. The problem is the reward is low, and, well, they are boring, so why would I do these?
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Because....... your patients / customers need it? Serve people thing? :D
 
flyingron said:
Nobody had a good reason for any of this to be public except for the bleating of the commercial interests like John & Martha King. The airman database is a major source for them complete with an indication of to what courses to target the mailings.
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Interestingly enough, I’ve never got a single piece of marketing material from them either in the mail or electronically.

Come to think of it, I’ve can’t recall ever receiving a mailer that wasn’t from AOPA or EAA.
 
Mark K said:
…The legal risk is low, but not zero. The problem is the reward is low, and, well, they are boring, so why would I do these?

Most docs don't do them because, well, they don't want to....
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For most GA pilots, dropping to Sport Pilot privileges will give them everything they meed without having any doc’s input at all.

I’m at an inflection point where I need to decide if I’m going from BasicMed back to a Class 3 or higher. The two CACIs I would need are effortless, but due to a pediatric ASD repair (open surgery), I’ve historically needed a cardiac consult with the Bruce stress test and a bubble echo. Neither test poses a challenge for me except from an insurance documentation standpoint so the referral gets approved. I could do it private pay, but that’s just annoying.

20+ years on a DOD flight physical and never had to do either for big blue.
 
Update: I found a friend in the doctor’s lounge who is also a pilot and I’ve got a meeting with them in a week.

Another (hypothetical) question: if one were to fly in/over Canada, how would Canadian authorities know if you did or did not have a class3 medical? I haven’t tried yet, so I’m ignorant as to what needs to be filed if one were to cross in to Canada.
 
Ozone said:
Update: I found a friend in the doctor’s lounge who is also a pilot and I’ve got a meeting with them in a week.

Another (hypothetical) question: if one were to fly in/over Canada, how would Canadian authorities know if you did or did not have a class3 medical? I haven’t tried yet, so I’m ignorant as to what needs to be filed if one were to cross in to Canada.
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If you fly over and skip customs? My guess is the same way in the US they know if you have a valid medical, IFR rated and current, or even if you have a license. They wouldn't unless the NTSB had to investigate the crash site or you did something to have to call a phone number.

Things are a little different. They are bringing in a different ADSB system, which requires diversity/upward satellite transmitting; being phased in over time, so "check your local listings". You also have to practice "Eh there, yah" vs "roger".

Here's a new scenario. Suppose you over fly Canada, do something that get's you a Canadian phone number to call. Does Canada have extradition arrangement with the FAA? That is, if you just ignore it, never fly to Canada again, would the FAA ever get involved / would it ever affect your flying in the US?
 
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Ozone said:
Another (hypothetical) question: if one were to fly in/over Canada, how would Canadian authorities know if you did or did not have a class3 medical? I haven’t tried yet, so I’m ignorant as to what needs to be filed if one were to cross in to Canada.
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You'd get away with it until you didn't. It's like, say, flying in IMC when you're not legally current, violating Rule Number One: Never Do Anything That Would Look Stupid in the NTSB Report. If you had a mishap, you'd be held up as an example of the dreaded Hazardous Anti-Authority Attitude.
 
Ozone said:
Update: I found a friend in the doctor’s lounge who is also a pilot and I’ve got a meeting with them in a week.

Another (hypothetical) question: if one were to fly in/over Canada, how would Canadian authorities know if you did or did not have a class3 medical? I haven’t tried yet, so I’m ignorant as to what needs to be filed if one were to cross in to Canada.
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If you’re landing in Canada, you have to clear customs where they will check your documentation. Transport Canada states for pilot documentation you will need:

your FAA pilot certificate (Ref: FAR 61.3, CAR 401.03 and CAR 401.04)
a valid FAA medical certificate (Ref: FAR 61.3 and CAR 401.03)
proof of citizenship (valid U.S. passport, foreign passport with a valid Canadian visa or a valid U.S. green card, or a NEXUS card for U.S. citizens)
a Restricted Radiotelephone Operator Permit (RR) issued by the Federal Communications Commission (FCC) (Ref: 47 CFR § 87.89)

Flying to Canada: what you need to know - TP 15048

Information for recreational pilots flying to Canada
tc.canada.ca tc.canada.ca
 
Ozone said:
Update: I found a friend in the doctor’s lounge who is also a pilot and I’ve got a meeting with them in a week.
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I was at an EAA Chapter meeting the other day. First-timers and guests always introduce themselves before announcements and the speaker.

Young doctor. Works emergency rooms. Hopes to be an AME someday. Does “a ton” of BasicMed exams.

So, they definitely exist out there.
 
midlifeflyer said:
I was at an EAA Chapter meeting the other day. First-timers and guests always introduce themselves before announcements and the speaker.

Young doctor. Works emergency rooms. Hopes to be an AME someday. Does “a ton” of BasicMed exams.

So, they definitely exist out there.
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Oh, life would be good if only pilots had some simple, accessible way to cross over a few states quickly to reach those doctors....
 
Ozone said:
Another (hypothetical) question: if one were to fly in/over Canada, how would Canadian authorities know if you did or did not have a class3 medical? I haven’t tried yet, so I’m ignorant as to what needs to be filed if one were to cross in to Canada.
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If Canadian authorities found out, they would share that information with U.S. And the violation would be an FAA reg, not a Canadian one, since 61.113(i) prohibits operations outside the U.S. unless that country authorizes it.

I’ll also mention that CBP asks for your documents entering the U.S., including your medical certificate. If you didn’t have that, they may notify the FAA as well. While you may or may not actually interact with a Canadian immigration officer, you will definitely interact with a U.S. official coming back. So don’t try to fake it.
 
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