3rd Class Denied
- Thread starter DK007
- Start date
- Joined
- Dec 5, 2010
- Messages
- 6,581
- Display Name
- GeorgeC
Yes.
Even motor glider is allowed. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pipistrel_Sinus
Baked Potato
Pattern Altitude
- Joined
- Jul 31, 2022
- Messages
- 1,658
- Display Name
- Baked Potato
Weird. Those specs look pretty close to LSA I've flown. Not sure I understand those regs!
There's not a huge of difference between a pipistrel LSA and the motor glider. But the glider meets the glider criteria. I'm rather surprised they aren't more popular because of this.
Depends why it was denied. 61.53 applies to everyone, regardless of whether you're required to hold a medical certificate or not.
Nobody said they made sense. Sonex aircraft are a perfect example. The aerovee powered sonex airplane requires at least a LSA drivers license type medical to fly. The aerovee powered xenos which is exactly the same airplane but with longer wings can be flown as a moto glider without any medical at all. I never understood the moto glider exemption.
bbchien
Touchdown! Greaser!
And I would check you denial letter for specific language relevant to 61.53…,
MauleSkinner
Touchdown! Greaser!
Probably because there is no exemption. It’s a glider, and regs that apply to gliders are all that apply.
From letter:
You are advised that it is unlawful under 14 CFR § 61.53 for you to exercise
airman privileges unless you hold an appropriate medical certificate.
Further, it is unlawful for the holder of a medical certificate to exercise
such privileges if that holder has a known medical history or condition,
which makes him or her unable to meet the physical requirements for the
certification.
You are advised that it is unlawful under 14 CFR § 61.53 for you to exercise
airman privileges unless you hold an appropriate medical certificate.
Further, it is unlawful for the holder of a medical certificate to exercise
such privileges if that holder has a known medical history or condition,
which makes him or her unable to meet the physical requirements for the
certification.
Lindberg
Final Approach
In the case of gliders, 61.53(b).
UTLonghorn_1979
Line Up and Wait
- Joined
- Jun 11, 2024
- Messages
- 706
- Display Name
- UTLonghorn_1979
Pipistrel Virus 121 self launching glider does 140kts cruise on 6.5 gph.
Sorry, gliders are ruled out until you can get one valid medical.
Federal Register :: Request Access
www.ecfr.gov
Incorrect.Sorry, gliders are ruled out until you can get one valid medical.
Federal Register :: Request Access
How so? 61.53(b) references 61.23 which addresses gliders, among other things.
wayneda40
Line Up and Wait
- Joined
- Jul 31, 2017
- Messages
- 682
- Display Name
- waynemcc
- Home Airfield
- KSBA
@DK007... Had you previously held a 3rd Class (or higher) medical?
If no, before you submitted your first request for a 3rd Class, did you consider a "consult" with the AME (rather than a formal FAA exam)?
If yes, and just a point of curiosity (and no judgement; and it's likely too late now anyway)... before you submitted a renewal request on your 3rd Class, did you consider BasicMed?
If no, before you submitted your first request for a 3rd Class, did you consider a "consult" with the AME (rather than a formal FAA exam)?
If yes, and just a point of curiosity (and no judgement; and it's likely too late now anyway)... before you submitted a renewal request on your 3rd Class, did you consider BasicMed?
Last edited:
MauleSkinner
Touchdown! Greaser!
And both 61.53(b) and 61.23 state that no medical certificate is required to fly a glider.
That’s not how I read 61.53.
(b) Operations that do not require a medical certificate. For operations provided for in § 61.23(b) of this part, a person shall not act as pilot in command, or in any other capacity as a required pilot flight crewmember, while that person knows or has reason to know of any medical condition that would make the person unable to operate the aircraft in a safe manner.
I’m genuinely curious how that can be interpreted differently. 61.23(b) simply outlines when a medical certificate is not required. 61.53(b) deals with operations prohibited due to a medical deficiency.
The text provided by the OP indicates the FAA has informed the applicant they now have a reason to know of a medical deficiency that prohibits the person from operations conducted under 61.23(b).
I could accept the person could receive dual training (student is not required crewmember), could not solo, could not take a checkride, could not act as PIC.
61.53(b) explicitly covers operations that do not require a medical. It says so in the title.
MauleSkinner
Touchdown! Greaser!
We don’t know why the medical was denied, therefore we have no way to say that it’s a condition that would make the person unable to operate in a safe manner.
Agree that without the details, full context is not known.
OP provided this.
The pertinent phrase is exercising airman privileges which I assume refers to the 61.2 definition of privileges.
The question was can I still fly a glider with a denied 3rd class medical. The answer is yes. Of course if you’re blind, or just had a stroke yesterday, or don’t have a glider rating, you can’t, but you do not need to gain a medical in order to fly a glider.
MauleSkinner
Touchdown! Greaser!
How does 61.2 affect this? I don’t see anything that even implies he can’t exercise glider privileges.
Lindberg
Final Approach
The pertinent phrase is "an appropriate medical certificate." What is an appropriate medical certificate for exercising airman privileges in a glider?
Last edited:
Dana
Final Approach
A pilot may have a medical condition that results in a denied medical. That same condition makes it unlawful to fly, per 61.53. Later, the condition gets better with or without treatment, so the pilot is again legal to fly for operations not requiring a medical (e.g. gliders). Getting a new medical (special issuance or otherwise) doesn't make the pilot magically fit to fly, it just proves it to the FAA.
A similar situation exists when a pilot chooses not to renew his medical because he knows he won't pass without an expensive and time consuming special issuance process. Perhaps it's even one of the conditions that takes basicmed off the table. If the pilot and his physician believe the condition has been alleviated so that he's safe to fly, he's legal to fly as a sport pilot... the FAA's blessing in the form of a class 3 medical is not required.
This explanation makes most sense to me, although I find it a stretch for the the FAA to determine you’re not medically fit to fly based on this morning’s exam, but tomorrow morning that issue has resolved itself satisfactorily enough for you to self-certify.
Based on that I will update my response above.
Sorry, gliders are ruled out until you can get one valid medical.
Federal Register :: Request Access
I’m going to update this, OP. Nobody here can answer your question given the lack of detail available in your posts.
- Joined
- May 25, 2006
- Messages
- 21,997
- Location
- KTTA, North Carolina
- Display Name
- Who you kiddin?
- Home Airfield
- KTTA
The pertinent language is “unless you hold an appropriate medical certificate.”Agree that without the details, full context is not known.
OP provided this.
The pertinent phrase is exercising airman privileges which I assume refers to the 61.2 definition of privileges.
The “appropriate medical certificate.” for a glider is…?
Your update is correct. The answer “depends.”
UTLonghorn_1979
Line Up and Wait
- Joined
- Jun 11, 2024
- Messages
- 706
- Display Name
- UTLonghorn_1979
Perhaps this is another reason for revamping aviation regs. If the layman can’t interpret what’s intended, perhaps it’s poorly written. One should not have ot hire a lawyer to know if they can legally fly or not...
If you can’t answer yes to this question then you literally can’t answer yes to any question ever asked. The answer is yes. The fact that there are other reasons you may not be able to fly is irrelevant to the question asked.
OP - Here. Did not and have never had a medical certificate. Denial based on visual disturbance that required hospitalization in 2019. Had letter from neuro that issue resolved with no reservations. Also previous SSRI use - discontinued. No issues or history of mental illness. My impression is that I probably need to apply again and jump through all the costly hoops to be sure I am flying legally (if I can get a SI). Then go Basic Med.
Personally, I’d get a good consulting AME to see what’s in the realm of the possible based the diagnoses and treatment in your medical records.
The FAA is certifying the past medical record is acceptable as much as your current status.
The AME guide and dispositions are publicly available if you want to do the research yourself to get a basic understanding of any current (w/in 90 days of application) updates for long past diagnoses/conditions is necessary.
The FAA is certifying the past medical record is acceptable as much as your current status.
The AME guide and dispositions are publicly available if you want to do the research yourself to get a basic understanding of any current (w/in 90 days of application) updates for long past diagnoses/conditions is necessary.
UTLonghorn_1979
Line Up and Wait
- Joined
- Jun 11, 2024
- Messages
- 706
- Display Name
- UTLonghorn_1979
Apparently they can be used for insomnia, headaches, nerve pain and other things. I wasn't aware of that.
Lindberg
Final Approach
Do any of those conditions currently interfere with your ability to safely operate a glider? No third class is necessary to legally fly a glider, regardless of hoops.
Matthew
Touchdown! Greaser!
A lot of talk about gliders: if you are serious about following through with that class iii medical, finding a glider club and getting started is an excellent way to build experience. The logbook hours might not transfer over to ASEL, but the experience hours definitely will be invaluable.