$30,000 plane....

Personally I've always liked C-210s but there must be some catch as to why you can get this one for $30,000, besides it being a very early model.
 
Sorry guys, I was a bit confusing in the 300nm/2hr thing.

Its either or. I don't need to go 300nm in 2 hours. Either 2 hour legs or 300nm legs will do just fine :)
 
260-280 lb? Hmmm... Unless Nick's friend is less than half his size, I think he'll find the Yankee cockpit a bit cramped. Back to the Beech 19 or Cherokee 140 ideas. For a 300nm/2-hour trip, I think he'll be glad he chose the larger cabin even if it takes longer to get there. Or he can poke around the Phoenix area and find someone with a Yankee and see how he fits in the cockpit -- a note on the Grumman Gang should help find someone willing to help with that.
 
lol Nick lives in Albuquerque. but he still has DA issues to worry about.
 
Bob Bement said:
Then, how about this one, with low time always hangared, good looking. So so radios, but it won't get you 300 miles in 2 hours. The price is right.

1959 CESSNA 172 STRAIGHT TAIL • $20,000 • PRICE SLASHED • Wanting to sell a real nice Cessna 172 - 4 place aircraft 1959 model with only 3704 hours and just 555 since major overhaul. Good paint and interior. KX 170B and KT 76A , late style gyro's, cleveland brakes, alternator, always hangered. Questions call Me 417-667-1267 • Contact Monte Curtis, Owner - located Nevada, MO USA • Telephone: 417-667-1267 . 417-667-7868 . • Posted May 31, 2009 • Show all Ads posted by this Advertiser • Recommend This Ad to a Friend • Email Advertiser • Save to Watchlist • Report This Ad • View Larger Pictures
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This one is just down the road from me, want me to go look at it for you Nick?
 
tonycondon said:
lol Nick lives in Albuquerque. but he still has DA issues to worry about.
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You bet -- a few thousand feet higher and just as hot. You can pretty much eliminate anything in the 2-seat 100HP class. At ABQ, an O-320-powered airplane is basically a 2-seater, especially with big folks. Fortunately, Fran and I only weighed about 270 put together when we were flying our stock-engined Yankee out there almost 30 years ago, and even that was a struggle.
 
Dean said:
If I could cruise that fast I'd go more places, but then I wouldn't get to see as much. :D
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One (wo)man's slow is another man's fast.....

Words to live by.:smile:
 
Ron Levy said:
You bet -- a few thousand feet higher and just as hot. You can pretty much eliminate anything in the 2-seat 100HP class. At ABQ, an O-320-powered airplane is basically a 2-seater, especially with big folks. Fortunately, Fran and I only weighed about 270 put together when we were flying our stock-engined Yankee out there almost 30 years ago, and even that was a struggle.
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That is why the folks around there like the 210. load light, go high, go long.
 
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Dean said:
If I could cruise that fast I'd go more places, but then I wouldn't get to see as much. :D
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I often throttle back and enjoy the scenery with both windows open. In fact, I had the week off and put nearly 10 tach hours on my airplane just doing that! :blowingkisses:

Deb
 
Ron Levy said:
For someone on a $30K purchase budget who is already worried about overhaul costs and (AFAIK) limited or no retractable gear time, I think a 6-cylinder retractable would be financially unviable when you consider that $30K would be the very bottom end of the market, overhaul costs substantially more, maintenance is higher, and insurance may be triple or more (especially the first year) that of something simple like a Beech Sport, Piper Cherokee, or big-engined Grumman Yankee where $30K is in the center or high end of the market and you'll get a plane with better equipment/condition for the same money.
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I do have some retract time, close to 50 hours, but I do want to keep the overhaul cost low. Airplane engines are overpriced as it is :D

Insurance isn't something I'm too concerned with, I have enough hours in most types of planes I'm interested in to keep it fairly low. I guess that's the benefit of being a renter for so long.

I'm curious about the doggish performance of the AA1s in ABQ though, since I see so many of them around (even flying out of 1N1, which is a long but narrow strip with mountainous terrain nearby).
 
SkyHog said:
I do have some retract time, close to 50 hours, but I do want to keep the overhaul cost low. Airplane engines are overpriced as it is :D
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Four cylinders are a lot cheaper to overhaul than six, even if total displacement is about the same (compare a Cont O-300 with a Lyc O-320).
Insurance isn't something I'm too concerned with, I have enough hours in most types of planes I'm interested in to keep it fairly low. I guess that's the benefit of being a renter for so long.
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A retractable will still cost twice as much as an otherwise comparable fixed-gear plane -- even for me.
I'm curious about the doggish performance of the AA1s in ABQ though, since I see so many of them around (even flying out of 1N1, which is a long but narrow strip with mountainous terrain nearby).
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Could they be O-320-powered rather than having the stock O-235? You really can't tell from the outside except by the prop being a couple of inches longer.
 
Ron Levy said:
Four cylinders are a lot cheaper to overhaul than six, even if total displacement is about the same (compare a Cont O-300 with a Lyc O-320).

WARNING OTW

A retractable will still cost twice as much as an otherwise comparable fixed-gear plane -- even for me.

[COLOR="blue"]Other than insurance why would a retract cost more?[/COLOR]

Could they be O-320-powered rather than having the stock O-235? You really can't tell from the outside except by the prop being a couple of inches longer.
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Does your shop charge more for a retract annual than a fixed gear?
 
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6 new steel ECI 0-300 cylinders from A.E.R.O. = 4257.18 plus shipping/taxes

4 new ECI Steel 0-320 cylinders from A.E.R.O. = 4376.

http://www.aeroinstock.com/products/Cylinders/45/0/product_cat/index.html

If you want to do overhauled the gap gets wider.

C-145-0300-D the lower end parts are cheaper too.

my last 0-300-A was pocket change under 13k

I can prove you wrong any time you make that statement.

because it is a OTW left over from the days Cont. was not making any cylinders for the C-90/145 0-300 series and we had no after market support. But now we have 3 manufacturers supporting the engines. all making good replacement parts and the competion has dropped the prices,

But Lycoming has not had the competion so the prices have dropped, but not as much.

any one using overhauled cylinders on a overhaul of the 0-200/0-300 these days is waisting their money. IMHO
 
Rotor&Wing said:
Most shops do because of the additional time involved with jacking, inspecting and servicing the landing gear system.
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you need to fid a shop who does not. and does their billing as a flat rate.
 
SkyHog said:
I'm curious about the doggish performance of the AA1s in ABQ though, since I see so many of them around (even flying out of 1N1, which is a long but narrow strip with mountainous terrain nearby).
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Dude you do not want an AA1. two seats and you will be REAL close to the pax with your size. I trained in them I know.
 
Ron Levy said:
What power setting were you using? 2300-2400 or something like that? 75% is about 2550 at that altitude. Of course, you were probably burning 8 gph, too.
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If he was flying with a Hortman CFI he was very likely at 2400. 2400 was like gospel.
 
SkyHog said:
I do have some retract time, close to 50 hours, but I do want to keep the overhaul cost low. Airplane engines are overpriced as it is :D

Insurance isn't something I'm too concerned with, I have enough hours in most types of planes I'm interested in to keep it fairly low. I guess that's the benefit of being a renter for so long.

I'm curious about the doggish performance of the AA1s in ABQ though, since I see so many of them around (even flying out of 1N1, which is a long but narrow strip with mountainous terrain nearby).
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If you want to launch from ABQ in the summer, you are going to spend some money on any aircraft that will do it. An early 210 will do the job every day, and give you the ability to do any thing you wish with a safety margin better than any thing mentioned here.

go fly one, you'll fall in love.

Stats are 60% of the aircraft owners never overhaul their engines, they have other choices, trade up, buy used, or just fly until it quits, and sell it. or it gets totalled and goes away.
 
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Tom-D said:
you need to fid a shop who does not. and does their billing as a flat rate.
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Most shops are in this as a business and not treating this like a side hobby. There is nothing wrong with charging for the time required to do a proper and complete inspection.

Most "flat rate" charge for annual inspections are usually higher for retracts to cover the additional cost.
 
Bob Noel said:
If considering the cherokee 140, note that some can be nose heavy to the point that you could be more limited by the forward CG limit than by the (already small) max gross weight. My 140 is limited to 385 lbs in the front seats with full fuel - the limit is the forward CG not max gross weight.
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There is a SAIB that regurgitates a Piper Pub. addressing spins in a Cherokee. The most useful thing in it is an endorsement of using actual front seat position instead of the center fore & aft position as the arm for calculating weight and balance. Putting a front seat in the full aft position relieves a lot of the conflict with the slope on the front of the W&B calc. Works with the passanger seat but of course, the pilot still has to be able to reach the controls
 
N1347B said:
I believe I quoted a Luscombe with a "C-85/0-200" conversion. I cruise at 120 mph. :nono:

And I look good doing it, too. :D
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Those Luscombes are fast, and they look it too! Even sitting still, they look fast enough to blow off a hangar roof.
 
Rotor&Wing said:
Most shops are in this as a business and not treating this like a side hobby. There is nothing wrong with charging for the time required to do a proper and complete inspection.

Most "flat rate" charge for annual inspections are usually higher for retracts to cover the additional cost.
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I believe you are one of the folks that believe the servicing, maintenance and inspection are the same thing.


pay, pay and pay until it becomes normal isn't a way of life for every one
 
AdamZ said:
If he was flying with a Hortman CFI he was very likely at 2400. 2400 was like gospel.
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Yup.

Maybe I should have throttled up while he was talking on his cell phone. :mad3: I was afraid that when the Hortman CFI/student crashed a couple months later that they'd find he'd been on the phone.

But, I run the Archer at 2400 too, and it's only about 5 knots slower than the Tiger was at 2400 (same basic engine).
 
Tom-D said:
Does your shop charge more for a retract annual than a fixed gear?
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Yes (well, it's not my shop, but it's the shop where I have my annuals done). So does every other shop I know. As R&W noted, it take extra time and extra equipment to do the gear retraction test.
 
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Rotor&Wing said:
It's truly amazing someone that holds an A&P with an IA has such little understanding of the basics such as yourself Tom.:nonod:
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Well,,,,,,, how much do you spend on servicing? How much do you pay for the inspection?

would you expect me to charge more to watch the gear go up and down?
Would you expect to pay the same rate to service as to repair?
Would you expect me to charge more if it were an owner assisted annual, just because the gear retracts?

Remember your situation doesn't fit every one.
 
Tom-D said:
6 new steel ECI 0-300 cylinders from A.E.R.O. = 4257.18 plus shipping/taxes

4 new ECI Steel 0-320 cylinders from A.E.R.O. = 4376.
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Tom's own work notwithstanding, you'll see several thousand dollars difference in advertised prices for Cont O-300 vs Lyc O-320 overhauls by the same shop.
 
AdamZ said:
If he was flying with a Hortman CFI he was very likely at 2400. 2400 was like gospel.
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It's also like 65% power at sea level, and less as altitude goes up -- real economical, but not real fast. Good for training but not for going places.
 
Ron Levy said:
Tom's own work notwithstanding, you'll see several thousand dollars difference in advertised prices for Cont O-300 vs Lyc O-320 overhauls by the same shop.
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They get away with it because many owners believe the Old Wives Tale
 
flyingcheesehead said:
But, I run the Archer at 2400 too, and it's only about 5 knots slower than the Tiger was at 2400 (same basic engine).
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But the same prop, too? If not, they were running different power levels even though they were running the same RPM. Check the power tables in the POH.
 
Tom-D said:
Well,,,,,,, how much do you spend on servicing? How much do you pay for the inspection?
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I'm an A&P with an IA, so I do my own work.

Tom-D said:
would you expect me to charge more to watch the gear go up and down?
Would you expect to pay the same rate to service as to repair?
Would you expect me to charge more if it were an owner assisted annual, just because the gear retracts?
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Tom, whether you like it or not, most shops charge more to do an annual on a retractable gear airplane. It's simple, it takes more hours to complete the inspection for a retract than a fixed gear. Go look at a maintenance manual for a comparable Cessna 172 versus a Cessna 172RG as an example.

When I ran my shop I charged for billable hours. I ran a business, not a charity.
 
So - anywho.....AA1 is out of the question I guess (its too bad, I really, really like the Yankees, and they're cheap as hell).

So I'm looking at a mid-end PA28-140 or a low end PA28-180. I could do the C210, but I don't know much about them, and I really want to keep maintenance costs down as much as I can (I know, I know, unplanned maintenance is a killer on the wallet, but I am talking planned maintenance).

So - I should narrow this down - no 6 cylinders, and retract is a very optional item, with me leaning away from retract. There's been some good suggestions so far. Its keeping me engaged :D

Oh, an no, I will not buy a taildragger. Sure, they're the greatest planes ever, but its not what I want.
 
SkyHog said:
So - anywho.....AA1 is out of the question I guess (its too bad, I really, really like the Yankees, and they're cheap as hell).

So I'm looking at a mid-end PA28-140 or a low end PA28-180. I could do the C210, but I don't know much about them, and I really want to keep maintenance costs down as much as I can (I know, I know, unplanned maintenance is a killer on the wallet, but I am talking planned maintenance).

So - I should narrow this down - no 6 cylinders, and retract is a very optional item, with me leaning away from retract. There's been some good suggestions so far. Its keeping me engaged :D

Oh, an no, I will not buy a taildragger. Sure, they're the greatest planes ever, but its not what I want.
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Trouble is, to get enough horse power to haul your butt, your GF, bags and enough fuel out of ABQ in the summer and go anywhere, you are going to need a 6 cylinder to get the job done.
 
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