$30,000 plane....

OK, I know this is listed with Barron Thomas, which some people contend means run away- but I know folks who have bought from BTA with great success, so look at the plane, not the broker.

IF it's sound and airworthy, this Cheetah looks like a nice deal - call it a very roomy 2-place plane, with potential- you could, after running out the 320 (if you run it out, since they're so robust), you can go Cheeger, like Ron's bird.

At $26,950.00, or less if negotiated, it's a deal.

http://www.barronthomas.com/775.htm
 
SCCutler said:
OK, I know this is listed with Barron Thomas, which some people contend means run away- but I know folks who have bought from BTA with great success, so look at the plane, not the broker.

IF it's sound and airworthy, this Cheetah looks like a nice deal - call it a very roomy 2-place plane, with potential- you could, after running out the 320 (if you run it out, since they're so robust), you can go Cheeger, like Ron's bird.

At $26,950.00, or less if negotiated, it's a deal.

http://www.barronthomas.com/775.htm
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Not bad. Its out of annual, which scares me a slight bit though...
 
SkyHog said:
Not bad. Its out of annual, which scares me a slight bit though...
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Meh.

You'd want an annual (or equivalent) as a prebuy anyway.
 
SkyHog said:
Not bad. Its out of annual, which scares me a slight bit though...
Click to expand...


My question would be how long out of annual. That is not a deal breaker as you should get an annual inspection by YOUR mechanic when buying a plane anyway.

Right now Cheetahs and Travellers are GREAT deals.

If you're going to stay out West, get a Cheetah with the 160 HP HC conversion. A friend of mine has one in the Denver area and we used to fly that thing all over when I lived out there. The previous owner had it to Alaska with his dad and places like Leadville, etc.
 
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...and they are certifiably great planes.
 
SkyHog said:
Looks like it....why does BT have a bad rep?
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Some people feel that their business ethics are a little weak; my only personal experience was when I tried, several times through calls and emails, to buy an airplane which they contended (on the phone and website) was available, but which was in fact, sold. Not that big a deal.

They do hide the N-numbers, which many find off-putting, but I can understand that act; they don't make money if you look it up, call the seller, and deal around 'em.

Bottom line: you're buying an airplane, not a broker. Call, check it out, see what's what.

Also, Shari Marlin (I forget her username, she was at Gaston's last year, nice gal, classic 182) is local, can recommend a mechanic for a pre-buy.
 
Is Vicki from Vermont still around?

I never bought a plane through a broker, so no personal experience. Like anything I suspect there are good and bad.
 
SCCutler said:
Also, Shari Marlin (I forget her username, she was at Gaston's last year, nice gal, classic 182) is local, can recommend a mechanic for a pre-buy.
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I haven't seen Sheri around forever. I know her - we flew to Gastons together :D

BTW, how do you know the plane's in Phoenix?
 
SkyHog said:
I haven't seen Sheri around forever. I know her - we flew to Gastons together :D

BTW, how do you know the plane's in Phoenix?
Click to expand...

Barron Thomas is out there (Scottsdale).
 
Anthony said:
Is Vicki from Vermont still around?

I never bought a plane through a broker, so no personal experience. Like anything I suspect there are good and bad.
Click to expand...

Does anyone know if there really is a "Vicki"?

Vicki of VT seems, to me, to be one of the "bad" types of brokers - hijacking listings, whiting out the reg numbers, trying to pick up a few quid for putting you in touch with the dude who's already advertising elsewhere. I could be wrong.
 
SCCutler said:
Barron Thomas is out there (Scottsdale).
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I have seen Baron list stuff from all around the country. I tend to pass on anything he has listed. The blurring of the N-numbers is enough to turn me off. I want to see the N-number to look for accidents on teh NTSB site. But with it blurred it makes me feel like there is something to hide.
 
flyersfan31 said:
Does anyone know if there really is a "Vicki"?

Vicki of VT seems, to me, to be one of the "bad" types of brokers - hijacking listings, whiting out the reg numbers, trying to pick up a few quid for putting you in touch with the dude who's already advertising elsewhere. I could be wrong.
Click to expand...

I had heard some negative word-of-mouth from people I trust, but no personal experience.

There are some brokers that are very good. And some that you should approach with caution. I recommend with all that you exercise diligence.
 
smigaldi said:
I have seen Baron list stuff from all around the country. I tend to pass on anything he has listed. The blurring of the N-numbers is enough to turn me off. I want to see the N-number to look for accidents on teh NTSB site. But with it blurred it makes me feel like there is something to hide.
Click to expand...

I'm with you on this one, Scott. I really can't see any good reason to blur out the N-number. I don't see that done on any other listings.
 
Ted DuPuis said:
I'm with you on this one, Scott. I really can't see any good reason to blur out the N-number. I don't see that done on any other listings.
Click to expand...

Someone said it before. People can research the owner from the N number and try to deal directly with them and cut out the broker. Some owners are motivated to do this also as they may be able to get out of paying the commission if they sell it themselves. I've never used a broker for an aircraft transaction, but I assume some are exclusive. If the plane sells, no matter how, the broker gets a commission. However, some are probably not exclusive and the owner may also have named exclusions for certain people.
 
Anthony said:
Someone said it before. People can research the owner from the N number and try to deal directly with them and cut out the broker. Some owners are motivated to do this also as they may be able to get out of paying the commission if they sell it themselves. I've never used a broker for an aircraft transaction, but I assume some are exclusive. If the plane sells, no matter how, the broker gets a commission. However, some are probably not exclusive and the owner may also have named exclusions for certain people.
Click to expand...
Seems to me that a simple clause in the contract between the broker and seller would take care of that. Something to the effect that the commission is paid to the broker regardless if the sale is coordinated through them.
 
Anthony said:
Someone said it before. People can research the owner from the N number and try to deal directly with them and cut out the broker. Some owners are motivated to do this also as they may be able to get out of paying the commission if they sell it themselves. I've never used a broker for an aircraft transaction, but I assume some are exclusive. If the plane sells, no matter how, the broker gets a commission. However, some are probably not exclusive and the owner may also have named exclusions for certain people.
Click to expand...

I don't see that as a good reason. When I was looking at planes, the broker I was dealing with sent me pictures of a bunch of planes. The N-number was clearly listed on all of them. In fact, most of the time the spec sheets on the plane had the N-number at the top.

I'm with Scott - makes it seem like there's something to hide.
 
Ted DuPuis said:
I don't see that as a good reason. When I was looking at planes, the broker I was dealing with sent me pictures of a bunch of planes. The N-number was clearly listed on all of them. In fact, most of the time the spec sheets on the plane had the N-number at the top.

I'm with Scott - makes it seem like there's something to hide.
Click to expand...

Could be. I'm no Barron Thomas fan. However, if you've ever been a broker for anything and stiffed this way after doing a TON of work on the sellers behalf, you may feel differently. No, this has never happened to me, but I know brokers that it has. Again, an exclusivity clause would solve the issue.
 
Agreed as to all of the above...


...notwithstanding all of which, if the plane is a sound plane, it is a sound plane.

No reason not to call, I think.
 
smigaldi said:
Seems to me that a simple clause in the contract between the broker and seller would take care of that. Something to the effect that the commission is paid to the broker regardless if the sale is coordinated through them.
Click to expand...


Read my post. Its called Exclusivity.
 
Anthony said:
Read my post. Its called Exclusivity.
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Exactly. Problem solved.

What a lot of brokers do is see someone selling on, say, a local bulletin board, post the plane as their own listing with a blurred N number, then take the deal to the seller.

I've seen a few listings in TAP where Vicki was selling the same plane, with blurred N, for about $3000 (her fee) more. Definitely the same plane. I saw one on her website, said "Darn that plane looks and sounds familiar" and went and checked TAP. Same one. Now, maybe that wasn't an exclusive listing. Still, there's a lot o'monkey shines in the airplane broker biz.
 
ScottM said:
I have seen Baron list stuff from all around the country. I tend to pass on anything he has listed. The blurring of the N-numbers is enough to turn me off. I want to see the N-number to look for accidents on teh NTSB site. But with it blurred it makes me feel like there is something to hide.
Click to expand...

From Barron:

Here's the answer to your question about the N-numbers:

First, we clearly state on our website that we maintain our clients' privacy ( that includes the Seller AND the Buyer)

Next, we either OWN the airpalne, or we're selling it for a client. The person hiring us to sell his airplane does so because he doesn't want to get bombarded with calls at all hours from tire-kickers. ( Tire kickers are ok by the way) but busy executives DO NOT want interruptions with casual inquiries about their plane or from people that just want to "chat", so I am supposed to handle that.

Next, the real culmination of what started this was many, many years ago when I was selling a near-new Bonanza for a busy surgeon. A couple of college kids, who after a few beers late at night, were surfing the 'net and found this very loaded Bonanza. And since they couldn't reach me at 2 am to "discuss buying it", they were able to find the Doctor's home number, call him up drunk, at 2 a.m., and want to "Talk about Bonanzas"

Needless to say, I got a very angry call the next morning from said Doctor who thought I was giving out his home number ( I wasn't, but the kids could look up the N-number, then look up his home number,etc.)

The Doctor was supposed to be in surgery at 7 am and had to deal with 2 drunks waking him up at 2 a.m. Not pretty.

Some of our clients just don't want their personal business exhibited all over the internet.

Also, we know of tele-marketers that "mine" N-numbers of expensive airplanes to sell their tele-marketing merchandise too.

Additionally, some buyers think that if they make me a low-ball offer, and I ahve to say "no", they can somehow "convince" the seller to tke the low-ball offer.

Really.

I have every incentive to MAKE a deal happen ( that's how I get paid), so, if there was any c-h-a-n-c-e that the Seller might accept, I'd explore it. But it boomerangs on the potential "chisler". The owner becomes upset and then won't discuss the matter further. So, some deals tht might have been salvaged for a buyer, are lost altogether because, while I can stay dis-passionate and try to make a deal happen, the low-ball offer completely "****es off" the seller and he becomes defensive and shuts down entirely to any further megotiations with that specific buyer.

So, those are just a few of the reasons.

Some of the airplanes are owned, or sold to, celebrities, that for security's sake, don't want their private airplane's N-number easily accessed by strangers.

Barron
 
EdFred said:
Because he's kinda like this guy:

Click to expand...


From Barron:

You've never met me, or bought anything from me, but you have an o-p-i-n-i-o-n?

At least when I'm compared to the Dos Equis commercial, that's flattering, but not me either.

I'm taller with much thinne hair than the guy in the movie.

Barron
 
Barron Thomas said:
From Barron:

You've never met me, or bought anything from me, but you have an o-p-i-n-i-o-n?
Click to expand...

It's called a "reputation" and it is what a person earns over time in any business.
 
Here's a good Warrior, it's a high time airframe with a good low time engine IFR. Offer about 28-29,000. You'll probably own it.

http://www.controller.com/listingsd...-WARRIOR-II/1979-PIPER-WARRIOR-II/1162307.htm

Another one, bank owned. Offer them 30,000. They might just go for it.

http://www.controller.com/listingsd...-WARRIOR-II/1978-PIPER-WARRIOR-II/1168658.htm

Here's another one, offer them 29,000.

http://www.controller.com/listingsd...-WARRIOR-II/1977-PIPER-WARRIOR-II/1164595.htm

There are lot's of them out there. Remember, right now there has not been a better buyers market in a long time. There is a whole lot of inventory and few buyers. The suggestions on offers I gave might just be a little high in todays market. You should be able to pick up a bank repo for as little as 25,000.

Warriors are an excellent airplane, especially if your a bigger person. Not great backwoods or dirt runways though.

If your aggressive in your leaning, you can get it down to about 7+ gallons an hour.

John
 
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Barron Thomas said:
From Barron:

Here's the answer to your question about the N-numbers:

First, we clearly state on our website that we maintain our clients' privacy ( that includes the Seller AND the Buyer)

Next, we either OWN the airpalne, or we're selling it for a client. The person hiring us to sell his airplane does so because he doesn't want to get bombarded with calls at all hours from tire-kickers. ( Tire kickers are ok by the way) but busy executives DO NOT want interruptions with casual inquiries about their plane or from people that just want to "chat", so I am supposed to handle that.

Next, the real culmination of what started this was many, many years ago when I was selling a near-new Bonanza for a busy surgeon. A couple of college kids, who after a few beers late at night, were surfing the 'net and found this very loaded Bonanza. And since they couldn't reach me at 2 am to "discuss buying it", they were able to find the Doctor's home number, call him up drunk, at 2 a.m., and want to "Talk about Bonanzas"

Needless to say, I got a very angry call the next morning from said Doctor who thought I was giving out his home number ( I wasn't, but the kids could look up the N-number, then look up his home number,etc.)

The Doctor was supposed to be in surgery at 7 am and had to deal with 2 drunks waking him up at 2 a.m. Not pretty.

Some of our clients just don't want their personal business exhibited all over the internet.

Also, we know of tele-marketers that "mine" N-numbers of expensive airplanes to sell their tele-marketing merchandise too.

Additionally, some buyers think that if they make me a low-ball offer, and I ahve to say "no", they can somehow "convince" the seller to tke the low-ball offer.

Really.

I have every incentive to MAKE a deal happen ( that's how I get paid), so, if there was any c-h-a-n-c-e that the Seller might accept, I'd explore it. But it boomerangs on the potential "chisler". The owner becomes upset and then won't discuss the matter further. So, some deals tht might have been salvaged for a buyer, are lost altogether because, while I can stay dis-passionate and try to make a deal happen, the low-ball offer completely "****es off" the seller and he becomes defensive and shuts down entirely to any further megotiations with that specific buyer.

So, those are just a few of the reasons.

Some of the airplanes are owned, or sold to, celebrities, that for security's sake, don't want their private airplane's N-number easily accessed by strangers.

Barron
Click to expand...

BTW - I for one appreciate you writing that post.
 
I didn't read it. Did he say why the guy was having such a hard time getting his $5k escrow deposit back?
jesse said:
BTW - I for one appreciate you writing that post.
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Barron Thomas said:
thanks Jessie!

Barron
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Jessie:

JessieAlexanderRelax.jpg


Jesse:

avatar590_18.gif


Slight difference. ;)

BTW, I agree with Jesse, I appreciate that post (and the others).
 
RMCN172RG said:
Jessie vs Jesse

Thanks for straightening that out Ted :D
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I am not sure I have it all figured out. I have seen Jesse several times so I am quite familiar with his appearance. But this Jessie person is unknown to me. A few more high resolution pictures would really help me to absorb the appearance details of that person. Ted: can you post a few more of Jessie?



:rofl:
 
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ScottM said:
I am not sure I have it all figured out. I have seen Jesse several times so I am quit familiar with his appearance. But this Jessie person is unknown to me. A few more high resolution pictures would really help me to absorb the appearance details of that person. Ted: can you post a few more of Jessie?



:rofl:
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Maybe she's holding Bill Clingon hostage? :rofl:
 
Definitely not me, he keeps on telling me what nice blonde hair I have.
 
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