2nd Time around...the pattern (My Commercial Checkride story)

neilw2

neilw2

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Neil W
It all started about 8.5 months ago. My wife told me the good news- we are expecting our first child. I was beyond excited about it, but I knew that being the future father I want to be I won't have a ton of time for training once the new one arrived. So that day I decided I was going to get my commercial cert before she arrived.

I own a business and work alot anyways so it was hard to find the time to study and fly, but I was able to thanks to my wife and a ton of work. I studied for and passed my written by the end of January, which initiated my flight training.

My strongest suite is definitely IFR flight so training for my commercial was not the easiest thing for me. Learning the maneuvers and transitioning back to VFR stuff took some time. Also being the winter in New England didn't help me move faster through the training either.

It all came to the point where a month or so ago my instructor and I felt I was ready. I scheduled with the DPE and took my initial test last week.

Oral was easy as I was almost over prepared for it. DPE commented afterwards it was one of the best orals he has had in a while (slid that line in to see if anybody is still reading) :)

I did well with my Chandelles, slow flight, steep turns, and 8s on pylon. I did these all in my plane (C-182) and landed un-eventfully. Changed planes to the Arrow for the traffic pattern stuff. All landings and takoffs were good. DPE says, "Give me a 180 power off landing and we are all done!" My traffic pattern was larger than I usually fly and the Arrow just doesn't glide like my 182 so unfortunately I didn't make the runway without adding power- no 2nd chances on this one so I failed attempt #1

Cut to today after an hour of additional training with my CFI the DPE came back out. One trip around the pattern with a successful power off 180 and I am now a commercial pilot. I feel like I am a much better pilot than when I started and enjoyed most of the work involved in making this happen.

My wife is due at the beginning of next month so I almost ran out of time but hey, I got it done! :)
 
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Just figure I'm dumb, but you didn't transpose VFR with IFR here?
I'm missing something in my understanding. Isn't commercial really focused on IFR?
 
LongRoadBob said:
Just figure I'm dumb, but you didn't transpose VFR with IFR here?
I'm missing something in my understanding. Isn't commercial really focused on IFR?
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No, believe it or not the commercial flight tests are strictly VFR maneuvers. The IFR rating tests your instrument abilities, commercial is all VFR mastery of the airplane.
 
LongRoadBob said:
Just figure I'm dumb, but you didn't transpose VFR with IFR here?
I'm missing something in my understanding. Isn't commercial really focused on IFR?
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Commercial is basically a more detailed private. You can get a commercial and not even have an instrument rating. All VFR.
 
Congrats! The power-off 180 is a difficult and unforgiving maneuver - if you end up low or slow, there's no way to save it.
 
mtuomi said:
Congrats! The power-off 180 is a difficult and unforgiving maneuver - if you end up low or slow, there's no way to save it.
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Agreed, when I blew it the first time I knew it right away. Talk about a sinking feeling!
 
Just a newbie question: Why did you switch from your 182 to an Arrow part way thru the test?
 
LongRoadBob said:
Just figure I'm dumb, but you didn't transpose VFR with IFR here?
I'm missing something in my understanding. Isn't commercial really focused on IFR?
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You are thinking ATP.... which is basically a more intense instrument ride with tighter standards.

When you get an ATP grade certificate, they actually take the instrument rating OFF your certificate. Just the fact you have an ATP means you are quald for IFR.
 
Sinistar said:
Just a newbie question: Why did you switch from your 182 to an Arrow part way thru the test?
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Part of the test has to be in a complex airplane. TOs and landings to show proficiency with landing gear, etc.
 
mtuomi said:
So if you do it in a biplane, is that kind of both? Only one checkride needed...
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As long as it has flaps, constant speed prop and retractable gear...
 
mtuomi said:
Congrats! The power-off 180 is a difficult and unforgiving maneuver - if you end up low or slow, there's no way to save it.
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Too bad with the "stabilized approach" taught these days the power off landing is ignored. When I did my training 2/3 of my landings were power off with a target point on the runway. Still to this day it is my normal choice for landing. No big deal if you practice. Don
 
yakdriver said:
Too bad with the "stabilized approach" taught these days the power off landing is ignored. When I did my training 2/3 of my landings were power off with a target point on the runway. Still to this day it is my normal choice for landing. No big deal if you practice. Don
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Pilots who have a lot of experience flying flapless airplanes and learned how to forward slip have a definite advantage in the power off 180.
 
Fearless Tower said:
I'd love to see someone do a Commercial ride in a Staggerwing!
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Been there done that, no sweat. Flew it with an old instructor that had hundreds of hours in the Staggerwing. Power off approaches and he didn't believe in wheel landings. Standard pattern in my SNJ. Power off at the perch and full flap three point landing. I love doing full slips in the N3N. Don
 
Sinistar said:
Just a newbie question: Why did you switch from your 182 to an Arrow part way thru the test?
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Like others said you have to demonstrate proficiency in a complex airplane. My DPE had me use the Arrow for ALL required landings (except the 1 I HAD to make after my manuvers to get down!).

I used 2 planes to save some $ but I prob wouldn't recommend it to others. I was used to doing the 180 engine out on my 182 which floats a hell of a lot further than the Arrow.
 
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So just to clarify: The Commercial Requirement is for a complex airplane - but not specifically for a high wing and low wing (requiring two planes)?
 
Sinistar said:
So just to clarify: The Commercial Requirement is for a complex airplane - but not specifically for a high wing and low wing (requiring two planes)?
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Some people do the maneuvers in a non-complex and then do the necessary trip around the pattern in the complex just to demonstrate complex proficiency like the OP.

I did mine entirely in an Arrow.

But just like @neilw2 I did poorly on the power off 180. Ironically it was the thing I practiced the most and actually nailed it perfectly during the days leading up to it.

Grats Neil!
 
neilw2 said:
Like others said you have to demonstrate proficiency in a complex airplane. My DPE had me use the Arrow for ALL required landings (except the 1 I HAD to make after my manuvers to get down!).

I used 2 planes to save some $ but I prob wouldn't recommend it to others. I was used to doing the 180 engine out on my 182 which floats a hell of a lot further than the Arrow.
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Being a renter I did the whole checkride in the Arrow. The Hobbs time burned up switching planes wouldn't have saved me anything. I had spent the time getting the required 5, or was it 10, complex hours doing commercial maneuvers towards the end of my training so I was pretty 'current.' Congrats on getting the ticket and fatherhood.
 
luvflyin said:
Being a renter I did the whole checkride in the Arrow. The Hobbs time burned up switching planes wouldn't have saved me anything. I had spent the time getting the required 5, or was it 10, complex hours doing commercial maneuvers towards the end of my training so I was pretty 'current.' Congrats on getting the ticket and fatherhood.
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Yep, even if you own my recommendation for anyone doing it is do it in the 1 plane. Between the extra fee my DPE charged because I used 2 planes, and the eventual re-test on that 1 maneuver the cost savings was minimal.

Thanks all for the kind words.
 
Congrats! I really need to get my butt in gear on mine CPL too, been slacking!
 
neilw2 said:
Like others said you have to demonstrate proficiency in a complex airplane. My DPE had me use the Arrow for ALL required landings (except the 1 I HAD to make after my manuvers to get down!).

I used 2 planes to save some $ but I prob wouldn't recommend it to others. I was used to doing the 180 engine out on my 182 which floats a hell of a lot further than the Arrow.
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I'm getting ready to do the commercial and I'm going to do the maneuvers training in a rented Arrow instead of my Cherokee; I need a few more Complex hours anyway to qualify for the checkride and might as well kill two birds with one stone, and then only one (known) airplane for the whole check-ride, I'll be prepared for whatever the DPE throws at me. (I'm already used to dropping from the sky in the Cherokee.)
 
I too screwed up the power-off 180, making my downwind a little too far out and then not turning base soon enough. As soon as I turned base I could see I'd screwed the pooch and said so and where I would put down if it were a real engine failure. The examiner did not fail me.

On my CFI ride I stalled at the top of the chandelle. I explained what happened and why (a teaching moment). Did the same when I recovered a little too aggressively from the first stall and had a secondary stall, with immediate recovery. Again explained what had happened---another teaching opportunity. Passed.
 
DoubleD said:
I too screwed up the power-off 180, making my downwind a little too far out and then not turning base soon enough. As soon as I turned base I could see I'd screwed the pooch and said so and where I would put down if it were a real engine failure. The examiner did not fail me.
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That's funny. That's exactly what I did on my power off 180. Told the examiner I was not going to make it, told him what I would if it were really off, and told him I was going to add power. He said he is not able to pass me because it is the only maneuver for the commercial where it doesn't allow the applicant to retry the maneuver.

Either way water under the bridge. I have my rating and it only took another trip around the pattern to get it. And as with everything in aviation I learned something new while doing it. :D
 
Congratulations on getting the commercial done Neil! I must have missed this when you first posted it back in June.

:cheers:
 
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