210 Grenades on T/O guy makes the impossible turn.

I can tell you when my engine (as we say in NASCAR) blowed up, that the thing was not producing power. You can have fuel, air, and spark all day long but if the thing can't compress, it can't make power. If the pistons are no longer connected to the rods and the rods to the crank it can't make power.
 
Salty said:
If it still had oil pressure it was probably still producing power, and vice versa. Lol
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Wouldn't a windmilling prop turn the oil pump fast enough to produce enough oil pressure to control the prop pitch?
 
Palmpilot said:
Wouldn't a windmilling prop turn the oil pump fast enough to produce enough oil pressure to control the prop pitch?
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Not if the oil went out of the big holes in the case. ;)
 
Salty said:
Not if the oil went out of the big holes in the case. ;)
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Fair point. It's still worth doing though, because one doesn't usually know whether there are holes until after landing.
 
Point to note....If you look at the data provided in the chart, oil pressure goes to near zero in under a couple of seconds. Not enough time to make a difference in prop pitch before the crank locked up.
 
Racerx said:
I didn't see any oil anywhere. Which is weird because there was a hole big enough to throw a cat through.
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Yeah, I wondered about that too. It's kinda odd.
 
Oil pressure went from 54 psig to 9 psig in 2 seconds.....That means something catastrophic with the pressure circuit between the pump and the pressure sensor, and no time for the governor to react. Could have been the crank oil control plug failing, as that's a big one.
 
Followup video.

First 10 minutes is history of the airplane, analysis of the incident happens after. I think I briefly looked at this airplane before deciding I didn't need a 210.

 
This is same video that was posted to the thread on Monday
 
Insurance.
It is the same video, I missed it
 
bflynn said:
Insurance.
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Not sure what point you are trying to make. Insurance would pay for nothing here. The engine hand grenading is not going to be covered. Had he balled up the subsequent landing, they would have paid for that.
 
The cost of insuring me in a 210 was prohibitive.
 
Grum.Man said:
I just watched some tidbits of his other videos. This engine has been apart 3 times this year for making metal. How can you buy such a nice airplane and still be so cheap with maintenance.
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Grum.Man said:
No he states at the beginning that he just got it back from having a bottom overhaul done due to low oil pressure. Here are the sequence of events according to his videos.

Goes into annual after 6 months and 100 hours, discover metal in the oil and damaged lifters. Replaced lifters. Some months later more metal is found and he replaces lifters and cam.

Then it develops low oil pressure so they do a tear down and a "bottom overhaul" which really just sounds like they replaced bearings, cam, lifter, and rod bolts, honed the cylinders and this was the first flight.
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Grum.Man said:
I'm not sure how complete his list of stuff replaced during the bottom overhaul is. New bearings could help oil pressure, I doubt they replaced the pump it's self. Metal could have obstructed the oil pressure regulator. Clogged oil passage, it's hard to say what one thing fixed it without a more detailed writeup or video of the teardown.
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Grum.Man said:
He comments that the "engine was flushed" after the metal in oil findings. I can tell you from experience, there is no amount of flushing that will get all the metal out of the engine. If you find that much metal, your only decision should be to completely disassemble the engine and mechanically clean it. I went through a can of carb cleaner and half a roll of shop towels trying to clean an O-200 oil pan of metal.
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Taking all this into consideration, the low oil pressure after the cam and lifters were replaced was likely caused by oil galleys blocked with random bits of metal.

Performing the "bottom overhaul" probably failed to clear those galleys, and the engine ate itself again.

You're absolutely correct about one thing...

Grum.Man said:
How can you buy such a nice airplane and still be so cheap with maintenance?
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There were some serious chunks of metal out of those lifters when he replaced them the second time. My timeline might be off but I thought he only had 20 hours on the plane. What would cause pieces that big break off when compared to lifters that he first replaced that were just spalled?That second set had chunks taken out of the edges it looked like.

Keep in mind I know nothing about engines but I’m very curious and it’s a neat thing to learn about
 
Im not sure how relevant this video is or if there is any correlation to AV engine part mfgrs at all. For autos, the cam lifter break-in is the number one worry for both pros and DIY guys, so much so its common to spend and extra K+ to go with roller lifters just to ease the worries. When my classic 289 needs a rebuild (soon), Ive found a place that will run the cam/lifters on a special machine and break them in gradually. They can also flesh out the common faults/failures before the parts are ever inside an engine.
There are many common AV engine practices that worry me as I learn about them. The idea of having to try and limit ground runs on a rebuild is just another. I think I know why but for the cost and possible consequences of failure Id like to see better options like stand running break-ins or even just lashing the plane down.

 
Back in my racing days the company that made the majority of valve springs was destroyed in an earthquake. Valve springs got mighty pricey for a while.
 
BladeSlap said:
Lol

How many of these have you done?
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I can now say I’ve done an real life engine out landing. It was off airport. My wife and I were aboard and we are both mostly fine, though shaken up enough to let the hospital check us out. I’m not ready to share more so I’ll just let you guys dangle for now. :D
 
Salty said:
I can now say I’ve done an real life engine out landing. It was off airport. My wife and I were aboard and we are both mostly fine, though shaken up enough to let the hospital check us out. I’m not ready to share more so I’ll just let you guys dangle for now. :D
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Glad y’all are okay, even mostly. You landed off airport and y’all are still here. Sounds like a great job to me!
 
Salty said:
I can now say I’ve done an real life engine out landing. It was off airport. My wife and I were aboard and we are both mostly fine, though shaken up enough to let the hospital check us out. I’m not ready to share more so I’ll just let you guys dangle for now. :D
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:eek2:

Glad you're ok!
 
I heard someone in the hall giving a description of the accident. Dunno who too but if it was the press, no wonder they get it so wrong. Almost nothing they said was accurate.
 
On a positive note, the guy now has an excellent reason to go with the Silver Eagle conversion!
 
add another congratulations… heck of a way to ring in the new year
 
Salty said:
I heard someone in the hall giving a description of the accident. Dunno who too but if it was the press, no wonder they get it so wrong. Almost nothing they said was accurate.
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Glad you are ok Salty, how's the airplane?
 
I’m still not in the mood to talk about it but pretty confident the plane is toast. They held my wife overnight for observation because she hit her head but she didn’t even have a bump or dilation issues so I think that was ridiculous and they cleared her for release already this morning.

Was a crazy day yesterday and Didn’t get much sleep last night so I haven’t really had a chance to process anything yet.

We left the house at 10 or 11a yesterday and I didn’t get home until 11p. After riding in a plane, the bed of a pickup, an ambulance, a taxi, a courtesy car, another plane, a golf cart, and my car I finally got home.
 
Salty said:
I’m still not in the mood to talk about it but pretty confident the plane is toast. They held my wife overnight for observation because she hit her head but she didn’t even have a bump or dilation issues so I think that was ridiculous and they cleared her for release already this morning.

Was a crazy day yesterday and Didn’t get much sleep last night so I haven’t really had a chance to process anything yet.

We left the house at 10 or 11a yesterday and I didn’t get home until 11p. After riding in a plane, the bed of a pickup, an ambulance, a taxi, a courtesy car, another plane, a golf cart, and my car I finally got home.
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Glad to hear you and the Mrs are ok. Things are replaceable. People aren’t. Sounds like you did a good job of protecting what’s important!
 
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Hell with the plane. You can build one...wait...you are.

Good job keeping everyone on the right side of the dirt. That's a feat.
 
Salty said:
I’m still not in the mood to talk about it but pretty confident the plane is toast. They held my wife overnight for observation because she hit her head but she didn’t even have a bump or dilation issues so I think that was ridiculous and they cleared her for release already this morning.

Was a crazy day yesterday and Didn’t get much sleep last night so I haven’t really had a chance to process anything yet.

We left the house at 10 or 11a yesterday and I didn’t get home until 11p. After riding in a plane, the bed of a pickup, an ambulance, a taxi, a courtesy car, another plane, a golf cart, and my car I finally got home.
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Oh my gosh, Greg, I can’t believe this man! I’m SOO glad y’all are okay! Very anxious to hear details!
 
Salty said:
I’m still not in the mood to talk about it but pretty confident the plane is toast. They held my wife overnight for observation because she hit her head but she didn’t even have a bump or dilation issues so I think that was ridiculous and they cleared her for release already this morning.

Was a crazy day yesterday and Didn’t get much sleep last night so I haven’t really had a chance to process anything yet.

We left the house at 10 or 11a yesterday and I didn’t get home until 11p. After riding in a plane, the bed of a pickup, an ambulance, a taxi, a courtesy car, another plane, a golf cart, and my car I finally got home.
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Salty, once again, glad you and your wife came out of this (relatively) unscathed. I can't wait to hear the story, sounds like you handled it well.

The cirrus pilots association actually started a response program for cirrus pilots who have survived CAPS pulls and forced landings as they were noticing pilots had post incident stress responses. These stress responses varied but are very real, both in pilots and passengers. Just keep this response in mind and seek out someone aviation knowledgeable you trust if you need to, and keep your wife in mind to, she may be a little hesitant to jump back in the saddle. I hope you get back in the saddle quickly.

PM me if you would like to find out more about what the COPA guys do, or if there is anything I can do. I looked on the COPA site for info on what they do, but can't find anything there, go figure. But I would definitely reach out to them to see if one of them would be willing to talk to you if you want.

Take care.
 
Thanks Paul,

I'm ok, I'll be flying again soon. My wife is another story. She could go either way. I'll be taking it very carefully.

I live at an airpark, one of my neighbors flew down and picked me up and brought me home. The rest have all poured out tons of support. I count myself fortunate in many ways.
 
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Salty, I'm sorry to hear of this, I hope you and the wife heal well.
 
Salty said:
I live at an airpark, one of my neighbors flew down and picked me up and brought me home. The rest have all poured out tons of support. I count myself fortunate in many ways.

Salty, I am happy that you and your wife did well in your landing. At least as a passenger, you are "Back in the saddle again". Take your time doing the same with your wife.

"Any landing you can walk away from is a good landing" is an old truth, and I too have made a "Good landing". The plane was not "Toast", but required repairs to fly again. I also had my wife on board, not a surprise, as she has been with me for 80% of my flying. After a short period, we made another flight, and another......

Airplanes are replaceable, good wives are not, take care of yours.
 
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