210 crash - Detroit

denverpilot

denverpilot

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Looked like a thread hadn’t been started yet.

Ugly. Pilot reported as gear problem and low fuel, airplane crashed into a neighborhood, looks like it flipped, broke up significantly, and caught fire.

Media reporting two fatalities, one person (looked like a young guy) exited the wreckage on his own.

News media is saying someone pulled him out, but the usual bystanders with cameras caught video and it doesn’t look to me like anyone was helping him. Also looks like he has some burns.

https://www.wxyz.com/news/pilot-trapped-following-small-plane-crash

Flight was Arkansas to Detroit with about four hours planned, per the media reports.
 
That's ugly. I feel for the families. :(
 
That's too bad. Looks like a P-210.
 
Horrible. This one hits close to home as it's not too far from where I grew up. On the positive side, it is good to hear that there are still decent people living in that neighborhood.
 
Ugh :(

Between those two, a gear issue won’t cause such an outcome but a fuel issue and not having enough glide to make the field could. Will be interested to follow this one.
 
steingar said:
Have to agree, fuel management. But the 210 is a high wing, how hard can t be?
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Yeah I dunno. Can’t imagine what would have caused it to come down in what appears to be an uncontrolled manner, so close to the field. Possibly another stall/spin scenario or sumthin.
 
Ryanb said:
Yeah I dunno. Can’t imagine what would have caused it to come down in what appears to be an uncontrolled manner, so close to the field. Possibly another stall/spin scenario or sumthin.
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So busy trying to fix the gear he forgot to fly the aircraft? Wouldn't be the first time.
 
steingar said:
So busy trying to fix the gear he forgot to fly the aircraft? Wouldn't be the first time.
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Maybe, maybe not, but it’s a reminder to Aviate first. Maybe ‘troubleshoot’ could go in the ‘aviate, navigate, communicate’ creed.
 
Rumors and speculation, so take this with a grain, but one post I read elsewhere said the passengers who perished were the parents of the 17yo survivor. Horrible accident either way.
 
Better to have landed gear up than crash.

I saw something to the effect that he was planning to land in the grass next to the runway.
 
Challenged said:
Rumors and speculation, so take this with a grain, but one post I read elsewhere said the passengers who perished were the parents of the 17yo survivor. Horrible accident either way.
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That’s what I was thinking watching the kid climb out of the back. Looked like he stayed in there while it was burning for quite a while, too... whether from being dazed or trying to help his folks, you can’t really tell. Nightmare for him.

The media also said someone “pulled him from the wreckage”, and the video didn’t show that. He seemed to self-extricate.

Plus the bystander who hollered “Yeah, he’s gettin’ out” or something like that and applauded, cheering the kid on.

That thing was an inferno by the time he crawled out. I can’t fault the bystanders for not going in there without training or gear, even though I usually hate the video shooting crowd doing nothing. They’d have just ended up in a burn unit.
 
Kansas Flyer said:
Why is that? More likely to flip?
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That is part of it. Soft spot in the ground, rough, uneven surface, too many unkowns could make a gear up landing in the grass become a really bad day. At least the runway surface is a little more even.

I know, I have been to some really bad paved runways...
 
denverpilot said:
Looked like he stayed in there while it was burning for quite a while, too
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Look closely at the kids left arm. It is really burned. Looks like skin is falling off.

I just hope the people up front were killed instantly. Horrifying to think they might have survived the crash only to burn to death.
 
Zeldman said:
Look closely at the kids left arm. It is really burned. Looks like skin is falling off.

I just hope the people up front were killed instantly. Horrifying to think they might have survived the crash only to burn to death.
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Same thoughts here, both the arm, and the hope of at least unconsciousness up front. Kid’s leg had some black spots also.

A lot of nightmares coming for that kid. Never a good time to lose parents to an accident like that, but 17 is a tough age to lose them both.

I have a couple of good friends who are brother and sister who lost their folks to a car crash (but they weren’t with them when it happened) in his last year of high school and when his sister was a sophomore.

He ended up just having turned 18 and was able to take legal guardianship of his sister and the folks had the finances in order so they could stay in the house for a few months. They didn’t stay all the way through high school for her, they couldn’t take being in the house. Had a great support group, good counselors, and they got a small townhome with some of the money of selling the folks house and lived there for a few years into college.

They turned out really nice folks and both have kids now. Neither takes any day they’ve got for granted.
 
Challenged said:
Rumors and speculation, so take this with a grain, but one post I read elsewhere said the passengers who perished were the parents of the 17yo survivor. Horrible accident either way.
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I read that as well, specifically that the woman passenger was the mother (not sure about the male) and that the survivor was the pilot. Terrible thing to contemplate if true... the guilt that young man will be living with, even if totally undeserved. :(
 
Terrible. At least there were *any* survivors though from that inferno. I'll be really eager to see what caused this one. Hopefully it is not as cut and dry as a botched belly landing or just losing control of the plane while trying to work out a gear issue

Sad either way!
 
That’s real ****ty.
 
If the article is correct and that of course is a big if, it sounds like he was a rusty pilot who hadn't flown in a decade and just recently started flying again and bought the plane. I wonder how much effort was put into getting current and proficient.

Sad.
 
Challenged said:
"According to the family member, the two who were killed were 54-year-old Greg Boaz and his wife, 48-year-old Julie. Greg's son, 17-year-old Peyton, was able to escape from the crash but is in critical condition at a Detroit hospital."
https://www.wxyz.com/news/victims-in-detroit-plane-crash-identified-as-husband-wife-from-texas
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That article said the NTSB said he did a flyby of the Tower for a gear check and the Tower said it wasn’t down. He requested a place to land on airport property. There is a picture of the wreck that shows the right main extended and the left main in the well.
 
Ryanb said:
Here’s the updated ASN report.

They are now stating that according to the NTSB, a fuel emergency was declared prior to the accident.

https://aviation-safety.net/wikibase/wiki.php?id=212613
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And one of the articles also says that the older man and not the 17 year old was the pilot, which contradicts the earlier ABC story. The fuel emergency was also reported elsewhere, which gives it some credibility, as odd as that seems in light of the post-crash fire (not impossible of course - or could be a faulty fuel gauge).

If the 17 year old was not the pilot then that removes one possible dimension from the tragedy, though it's still a horrible event all around.

The reports have other errors that suggest we should probably reserve judgment until the picture is clearer. For one, the WILX report gives the location of the crash as being near "Van Dyke and Middlebelt", an intersection which anyone from Detroit knows does not exist.
 
denverpilot said:
That’s what I was thinking watching the kid climb out of the back. Looked like he stayed in there while it was burning for quite a while, too... whether from being dazed or trying to help his folks, you can’t really tell. Nightmare for him.

The media also said someone “pulled him from the wreckage”, and the video didn’t show that. He seemed to self-extricate.

Plus the bystander who hollered “Yeah, he’s gettin’ out” or something like that and applauded, cheering the kid on.

That thing was an inferno by the time he crawled out. I can’t fault the bystanders for not going in there without training or gear, even though I usually hate the video shooting crowd doing nothing. They’d have just ended up in a burn unit.
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If I heard it correctly, the news report said that a by-stander opened the door with an ax.
 
azure said:
And one of the articles also says that the older man and not the 17 year old was the pilot, which contradicts the earlier ABC story. The fuel emergency was also reported elsewhere, which gives it some credibility, as odd as that seems in light of the post-crash fire (not impossible of course - or could be a faulty fuel gauge).

If the 17 year old was not the pilot then that removes one possible dimension from the tragedy, though it's still a horrible event all around.

The reports have other errors that suggest we should probably reserve judgment until the picture is clearer. For one, the WILX report gives the location of the crash as being near "Van Dyke and Middlebelt", an intersection which anyone from Detroit knows does not exist.
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42 24.44N/83 01.58W is the likely spot. Milton is an Ave or St depending on which map your looking at
 
Sad loss,hope the 17 year old has a Buick and full recovery.
 
luvflyin said:
42 24.44N/83 01.58W is the likely spot. Milton is an Ave or St depending on which map your looking at
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Agreed. Other sources mentioned Milton, and my guess is that "Middlebelt" was based on someone mishearing the spoken name. Other sources said that the site was south of Forest Lawn Cemetery, and Milton fits.

Nevertheless, my point was that with errors and confusion in the early reports, the true facts will probably only become clear with time.
 
Apparently they are from my area, League City TX and own 2 businesses nearby. I dont know them, however. I don’t remember seeing a P210 around here but there are a bunch of airports in the Houston area.

Very unfortunate. RIP.
 
Challenged said:
"According to the family member, the two who were killed were 54-year-old Greg Boaz and his wife, 48-year-old Julie. Greg's son, 17-year-old Peyton, was able to escape from the crash but is in critical condition at a Detroit hospital."
https://www.wxyz.com/news/victims-in-detroit-plane-crash-identified-as-husband-wife-from-texas
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Oh man. Sad. I see they say someone got the kid out with an axe. Good on whoever did that. They were in the middle of a firestorm doing that.

luvflyin said:
That article said the NTSB said he did a flyby of the Tower for a gear check and the Tower said it wasn’t down. He requested a place to land on airport property. There is a picture of the wreck that shows the right main extended and the left main in the well.
Click to expand...

That is concerning. Isn’t it pretty hard to move the 210 main gear separately? I thought there was at least one tube that carries all the way through.

Ugh. The kid in critical is surely due to the burns and possibly smoke or fire inhalation. Poor kid.
 
Ryanb said:
Maybe it just wasn’t reaching the engine? This one seems puzzling.
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It is hard to believe that simultaneous failures would happen to two completely separate systems. One possibility is that he circled around for too long burning fuel trying to diagnose the problem. However, that does not explain what looks like a stall/spin.

Some years ago, another airplane at my home airport was turning back after takeoff due to a baggage door problem. Then he had an engine failure and crashed just before reaching the runway. Again, two completely separate systems.
 
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