2010 Dinner Alternative

Diana said:
Gee, if I could only find that map! It's somewhere in my computer. :D It took us nine hours to go 104 miles. Whattatrip! I've never been chased around by storms like I was on that day. Even the FSS was going "WOW! We had no idea the storms would do what they're doing!" Dave Taylor was giving me PIREPS from his cabin at Gaston's.
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But you made it safely! :D And that's the important thing. :yes:

That was just last year, wasn't it? I seem to recall talking to Kate on the phone, she was up somewhere in Iowa waiting it out at a casino, and you were in a hangar in Monett. Later, she called again and I told her that Lance Flynn had just landed, and he'd be the last plane in before the storm hit. That's when EdFred called in 15 miles out. :rofl:
 
Everskyward said:
I think it's especially hard to forecast how bad bad weather is going to be reliably. Contrary to Kent's experiences I have seen weather worse than forecast quite a few times, even recently...
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I wonder if that's because of the type of flying you do? I've seen it worse than forecast, but it seems to me that generally happens mostly when it's already IFR anyway.
 
usually in my experience the weather is either better or worse than forecast.
 
flyingcheesehead said:
That was just last year, wasn't it?
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Well, actually, that was the very first year. :)

flyingcheesehead said:
I seem to recall talking to Kate on the phone, she was up somewhere in Iowa waiting it out at a casino, and you were in a hangar in Monett. Later, she called again and I told her that Lance Flynn had just landed, and he'd be the last plane in before the storm hit. That's when EdFred called in 15 miles out. :rofl:
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We were stuck at Monett last year, I think. I remember calling Spike on the phone telling him there were tornado warnings and storms headed their way at Gaston's.
 
flyingcheesehead said:
Nope - I'm saying that you shouldn't put so much faith in forecasts that you decide to stay on the ground a full day before you would have departed. The forecasts tend to be overly conservative in my experience. What's in your slice of the sky is what matters. I'm not saying to fly into IMC. I'm saying to wait until maybe an hour before your planned departure time before your final go/no-go, and then you'll have a much better idea of whether the forecasts were anywhere close to correct.
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My guess is that I have flown more and farther safely VFR with crappy forecasts than you. I don't scrub for forecasts, I scrub for actual conditions. When I scrubbed the Philly trip I had multiple layers enroute with IFR conditions at my destination. I will not launch with IFR conditions at my destination if I have to go over the top. I will not get trapped above an overcast layer. By the time the weather at my destination resolved my window for the flight had closed, and that's all there is to it.

By the way, the "just fly until you hit bad conditions and land" routine works poorly in West Virginia, where there are sufficiently few airports and abundant terrain to make CFIT a distinct possibility.
 
steingar said:
My guess is that I have flown more and farther safely VFR with crappy forecasts than you.
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Okay fine, let's hear it. How far have you gone?

I don't scrub for forecasts, I scrub for actual conditions. When I scrubbed the Philly trip I had multiple layers enroute with IFR conditions at my destination. I will not launch with IFR conditions at my destination if I have to go over the top. I will not get trapped above an overcast layer. By the time the weather at my destination resolved my window for the flight had closed, and that's all there is to it.
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Huh. Odd. It was VFR there when we landed, though that was right behind the line of T-storms, PHL was getting whupped and airliners were scattering all over the place. We didn't even hit a cloud within a hundred miles of Philly. What was your window? It was IFR earlier in the day, but I'm pretty sure it was VFR by the time we launched from our fuel stop in Ohio (6G4, not far from you - Been there? Nice little grass field, cheap fuel.)

By the way, the "just fly until you hit bad conditions and land" routine works poorly in West Virginia, where there are sufficiently few airports and abundant terrain to make CFIT a distinct possibility.
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True - And that's part of "judgement." You don't fly 'til you hit the stuff. You fly 'til the stuff starts looking like it might begin eliminating options, and take one of the several options that are still available. Otherwise, you end up being forced into a quick decision, and that's not good.
 
flyingcheesehead said:
I'm saying to wait until maybe an hour before your planned departure time before your final go/no-go, and then you'll have a much better idea of whether the forecasts were anywhere close to correct.
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Some people don't have the flexibility in their schedule or their personality that this requires. It's not just getting there either, it's getting back. I'm not sure why it's such a big deal what someone else decides is right for them.
 
Beats me. Who cares?

The variables and timing simply can't be quantified. Last year I was packed and ready to leave on Thursday morning. The early arrivals reported field in great shape and fine WX. As I watched the radar prior to departure, a cell formed west of Gaston's and started moving eastward. I thought it would keep moving and become a non-event; except that it stopped directly over the resort and made a mess of the runway. So a pleasant weekend became a sauna, the runway became a mudhole, Gaston's kept my deposit and added insult to injury with the worst meal I have been served (and paid for but didn't eat) in a commercial establishment. I'll be harder to trap this year.​

Everskyward said:
Some people don't have the flexibility in their schedule or their personality that this requires. It's not just getting there either, it's getting back. I'm not sure why it's such a big deal what someone else decides is right for them.
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Everskyward said:
Some people don't have the flexibility in their schedule or their personality that this requires. It's not just getting there either, it's getting back. I'm not sure why it's such a big deal what someone else decides is right for them.
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Wow! Some folks actually try to plan THAT far in advance?

It's also one of my shortfalls. Difficult to explain to some; weather is great where they are, don't understand it's not where you are or enroute.

Best,

Dave
 
Why the argument? I'm not going to second guess a pilot that decides conditions aren't to their liking and decides not to go, or goes to an alternate.
 
I don't think there is an argument - as much as there is a desire to make it clear that one can accomplish a lot of cross countries safely VFR. It does require you be flexible and any effort to make decisions based on extended forecasts will always disappoint. Even a 24 hour forecast is pretty worthless. The difference between a safe VFR flight and a not safe VFR flight is very hard to forecast.

It is frustrating to watch someone act as if it can't be done. If his schedule does not permit flexibility that's fine and no big deal. But his lack of flexibility is the thing stopping such trips - not the fact that he is VFR.

This will be year five that I'm flying to Gastons. The first 3 years were all done VFR without an issue. I always arrived when I wanted to. I did have to wait a day before coming back once or twice. Flying there IFR doesn't really make that huge of a difference as much as it might make the flight slightly more comfortable (get above those damn bumpy layers)
 
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Sooooooo..........I wonder if the restaurant has good bread pudding?
 
jesse said:
I don't think there is an argument - as much as there is a desire to make it clear that one can accomplish a lot of cross countries safely VFR. ...

It is frustrating to watch someone act as if it can't be done. If his schedule does not permit flexibility that's fine and no big deal. But his lack of flexibility is the thing stopping such trips - not the fact that he is VFR.
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Bingo! Jesse gets it. :yes:
 
Of course it can be done. You need a three day window during the Spring, at least for the trip I would consider. I don't have that kind of time. In Summer and Fall that turns into pretty much a one day window, which is when I do most of my travel.
 
flyingcheesehead said:
Okay fine, let's hear it. How far have you gone?
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Boy, memories. Lets see. I've done Oshkosh just about every year since getting my PPL, but that's not that far. Charlottesville wouldn't have been that far, nor would the retinoic acid meeting I attended in southern Georgia had I not done both in my old Cessan 150.

The Free Bird has been to Vermont and Ft. Lauderdale, and many places in between. Those were certainly the standouts, though. May not seem like much, but all done dodging any obstructions to visibility, which wasn't easy in Vermont.

Yes, VFR travel can be done any time of the year. In Winter its easier than IFR up here, no icing. But at any time of the year one had to have the patience of Job and tremendous flexibility to do it. I doubt strongly I can hit a date within 2 days flying 500 nm across the midsection of the country. Yes, I will get there eventually. That's why flying vacations with us are we get there whenever, and we get back whenever. We've had trips where at the last minute we just went where the rain wasn't. I am fortunate to have an understanding and supportive spouse. But events where I have to be at a particular place and a particular time are far more difficult in Springtime.
 
flyingcheesehead said:
Bingo! Jesse gets it. :yes:
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What's there to get? One's schedule either permits extra "weather time" or it doesn't. I respect the decision of one that feels they don't have the flexibility; I likewise respect those that do have that flexibility. Either way prevents VFR into IFR or other stupid pilot tricks.
 
After reading all of this discussion on both sides, I think the thing here is: Don't try to fly another pilots airplane and decide if he can go VFR or not. And what one pilot is able/ willing to do might not be what another pilot is able/willing to do. So those that can make it to Gaston's make it to Gaston's. I will see you there. Not every pilot has the same level of risk taking, and standards. An old friend of mine once said," That is why there is Chocolate, Strawberry, and Vanilla :smile:.
 
Bob Bement said:
After reading all of this discussion on both sides, I think the thing here is: Don't try to fly another pilots airplane and decide if he can go VFR or not. And what one pilot is able/ willing to do might not be what another pilot is able/willing to do. So those that can make it to Gaston's make it to Gaston's. I will see you there. Not every pilot has the same level of risk taking, and standards. An old friend of mine once said," That is why there is Chocolate, Strawberry, and Vanilla :smile:.
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Bob gets it. :)
 
gprellwitz said:
Steve,
I think we'd be interested, but I wouldn't want to P.O. Gaston's in the process. Since many of us have kitchens, we might even consider a pot luck.
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Should that be a worry when Gaston's had no problem repeatedly POing a good-sized group of repeat customers?

Oh. I know. This group is not that big of a deal.
 
mikea said:
Should that be a worry when Gaston's had no problem repeatedly POing a good-sized group of repeat customers?

Oh. I know. This group is not that big of a deal.
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That's a valid question, and the only response I have is that we don't have to sink to their level. OTOH, we are the customers, and just because the resort has a restaurant doesn't mean that we need to patronize it. I will say, though, that doing our own cooking can be downright fun! We're gong to give Steve's plan a try this year, though, and see how it works out. We'll fine-tune again next year as needed.
 
Bob Bement said:
After reading all of this discussion on both sides, I think the thing here is: Don't try to fly another pilots airplane and decide if he can go VFR or not. And what one pilot is able/ willing to do might not be what another pilot is able/willing to do. So those that can make it to Gaston's make it to Gaston's. I will see you there. Not every pilot has the same level of risk taking, and standards. An old friend of mine once said," That is why there is Chocolate, Strawberry, and Vanilla :smile:.
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I guess I'm not vanilla. ;)

See you at Gaston's, Bob! That should be a memorable trip for you, even with all those other amazing things you've done! I hope you don't have too much trouble landing on such a long, wide runway. :goofy:
 
I really enjoy the airside cooking. And the additional pyro only adds to the experience...:rofl:


This trip to town is just a trial run. The particular restaurant is one I consider a safe bet to accomodate diverse tastes. If we as a group are not happy with this year's choice there are more fairly easy to arrange options for the year's event. I have identified at least 5 other venues in the area that could probably handle our group without much additional effort which are more "local" in their cuisine, but I'm more interested in how well the logistics work this first time out and the restaurant is a little more generic in its menu as it is a regional chain.

gprellwitz said:
That's a valid question, and the only response I have is that we don't have to sink to their level. OTOH, we are the customers, and just because the resort has a restaurant doesn't mean that we need to patronize it. I will say, though, that doing our own cooking can be downright fun! We're gong to give Steve's plan a try this year, though, and see how it works out. We'll fine-tune again next year as needed.
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Steve said:
I really enjoy the airside cooking. And the additional pyro only adds to the experience...:rofl:


This trip to town is just a trial run. The particular restaurant is one I consider a safe bet to accomodate diverse tastes. If we as a group are not happy with this year's choice there are more fairly easy to arrange options for the year's event. I have identified at least 5 other venues in the area that could probably handle our group without much additional effort which are more "local" in their cuisine, but I'm more interested in how well the logistics work this first time out and the restaurant is a little more generic in its menu as it is a regional chain.
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And I want to thank you for spearheading this experiment!
 
I'm in for the bus. I don't really care where we eat. I'm there for the company. :)
 
If anybody from the resort wonders why we're dining elsewhere, please refer them to the undersigned.
 
The identifiable roster for potential Gaston's attendees has now exceeded the capacity of the bus. If you are planning to ride the bus to the in-town dinner Saturday night and have not received a confirmation PM from me please contact me with the names of the people in your party. This transportation is offered on a first come first serve basis with priority to those that have a confirmed seat. There are still seats currently available but the possibility now exists that the bus may already be full if you wait until Saturday evening. The odds are there will be a cancellation or two between now and then, so if you like playing the odds....;)

Also, even if you don't plan to ride the bus but want to eat at the restaurant with the group just PM me with that information so you (and whoever is with you) is included in the dinner reservation.

Thanks.

Steve said:
Ok, with Dr. Bill's commitment we now are good to go with the bus charter.

There are currently still more seats available, but to guarantee a seat is held for you please PM me with the names in your party before June 5th so I can create an "official" roster. I've started a spreadsheet with everyone that has responded so far, but I want make sure I have an accurate count. This is first come, first serve with prior notifications getting priorty, although with 56 bus seats available I think everyone that wants a seat on the bus can get one. If that number is exceeded you will be on your own for transportation to dinner, though.

Money will be collected prior to boarding. Plan on $15/seat. Exact change is appreciated but I will try to have enough $5 bills if you don't have it. It's understood if you indicate you want a seat but for whatever reason can not make Gaston's (weather, mechanical) you are not obligated in any way to pay. I'm operating on the trust system here so please follow through if you do show up and have a reservation if at all possible. I'm told a gratuity for the driver is expected. That will be taken care of at no additional cost to you.

For planning purposes the bus will depart the resort at 7:00pm and restaurant seating will start at 7:30pm. The plan is to return to the resort before 11pm, but that is subject to change based on the desire of the group.

I double checked with the restaurant and they do have a bar so anyone wishing to partake will be accomodated. They also want a best estimate one week before arrival so they can set up the seating, so be sure to let me know via PM as requested above before June 5th as that is intended to assure you a seat at the restaurant, even if you don't ride the bus. Just include a note that you will not be riding the bus.

Again, participation in the bus ride/dinner is strictly voluntary and is offered only as an alternative to eating at the resort Saturday night. This is an "experiment" and no guarantees are implied by me or anyone associated with the fly-in. If expectations are not met then I will gladly defer to someone else the next time. I have a short list of local restaurants that have the facilities to accomodate a group the size of ours and would be happy to pass that information along in case someone wants to make other arrangements in the future.

Maybe Jesse can modify the fly-in website to have a double verification of who's riding the bus.

Sorry Wayne, this is a long bus, not a short bus. You'll just have to adapt.:smile: Be prepared for the WI contingent to yodel on the bus PA, too.
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Just a reminder, if you plan to have dinner with the group going to Colton's in Mountain Home the cutoff to be included in the head count turned in to the restaurant is midnight this Friday (0000 6/5/10). They asked for at least a 1 week prior notification to accomodate us.

If you've already gotten a confirmation from me that you have a seat on the bus no futher action is required on your part other than to board the bus for a 7:30pm local departure on 6/12/10 (and pay the $15).

If you have not gotten a confirmation from me but want to have a seat on the bus to the restaurant please PM me before this Friday. You don't have to ride the bus to eat at the restaurant, but there will be no guarantee you will be seated with the group if you don't. There are still a few bus seats available.

See you there.
 
If Susan comes along will you be able to have dinner with your same low-life friends, or will it be necessary to upgrade to a better group?

bbchien said:
Only if I'm fed better than a canine.
Woof!
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A good question. She just declined the 17 mile ride on the back of the MOPED into town, so i think that says something......
 
Just a reminder.

The bus is scheduled to arrive at the resort ~7pm.

Boarding will start ~7:15pm.

The bus will depart @ 7:30pm!

The bus will return ~ ??????

Please have your cash ready.

That is all.

You may now return to your normal activities.
 
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