12 Seconds to Pattern Altitude

Geico266 said:
Be a man and stand up right. Jay is a shining example of a pilot looking at all options, weighing those options, deciding on a very capable airplane, and is now enjoying his decisions. When he comes back and tried to share his experiences POA goes nuts. Surprise? :no:
Click to expand...

Sir! put down the cup and step back from the Kool-aid! Do it now sir!
 
Geico266 said:
Be a man and stand up right. Posting quotes out of context is no different than grade school play ground "he said, she said".

Jay is a shining example of a pilot looking at all options, weighing those options, deciding on a very capable airplane, and is now enjoying his decisions. He simply wants to share his experience! When he comes back and tried to share his experiences POA goes nuts. Surprise? :no:
Click to expand...

Replace RV with Extra, certified Pitts, Cirrus, or Bonanza in Jay'd posts and people would have responded the same way. It had nothing to do with it being an Experimental.
 
Somehow, I keep wandering into the Spin Zone by mistake.
 
jesse said:
Replace RV with Extra, certified Pitts, Cirrus, or Bonanza in Jay'd posts and people would have responded the same way. It had nothing to do with it being an Experimental.
Click to expand...

Do you really think this thread would have gone to 300+ posts if it didn'thave to do with experimentals? :no:
 
Geico266 said:
Do you really think this thread would have gone to 300+ posts if it didn'thave to do with experimentals? :no:
Click to expand...

I said STEP AWAY FROM THE KOOL-AID! DO IT NOW OR YOU WILL BE RESTRAINED! THANK YOU FOR YOUR COOPERATION SIR!
 
Last edited:
jesse said:
I

As to the comment above implying that those who are self taught or self employed aren't discliplined is total crap. When you are your own boss it takes an enormous amount of discipline to end up succeeding.
Click to expand...


Did anybody say those who are self employed "aren't disciplined"?

My comment was people who missed out on higher education missed out on the discipline of learning to learn. Doesn't mean they can't learn, or don't learn, just that they are, by nature and circumstance, forced to learn from themselves and not learn by taking advantage of collaborators. That is kind of how it ties into the OP.

I would think these characteristics would show up for instructors giving flying lessons. Maybe not. Just a theory based on lots of years of anecdotal observations and learning in various settings.
 
jesse said:
Replace RV with Extra, certified Pitts, Cirrus, or Bonanza in Jay'd posts and people would have responded the same way. It had nothing to do with it being an Experimental.
Click to expand...

Exactly. It was attitude and "digging in heels" that drew the discussion. The Experimental certificate had nothing to do with it.
 
JoseCuervo said:
What does this mean?
Click to expand...

He's saying that the attitude that many "educated" people is that they're better than others. This is an example of just taking that attitude to the extreme and tossing it back at those who worship the educational system as a special kind of idol or panacea.

My interpretation, anyway. :dunno:

I have no dog in that fight. Those who aren't formally educated can be equally as ridiculous in their attitude toward others.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
 
Geico266 said:
Do you really think this thread would have gone to 300+ posts if it didn'thave to do with experimentals? :no:
Click to expand...

Absolutely and without a doubt.

For the record, I wasn't impressed with Jay any more when he flew a certified airplane.
 
JoseCuervo said:
Did anybody say those who are self employed "aren't disciplined"?

My comment was people who missed out on higher education missed out on the discipline of learning to learn. Doesn't mean they can't learn, or don't learn, just that they are, by nature and circumstance, forced to learn from themselves and not learn by taking advantage of collaborators. That is kind of how it ties into the OP.

I would think these characteristics would show up for instructors giving flying lessons. Maybe not. Just a theory based on lots of years of anecdotal observations and learning in various settings.
Click to expand...

Years of a delusional superiority complex. ;)
 
JoseCuervo said:
What does this mean?
Click to expand...

Wow, for such a condesending smart guy you would think you could understand it. I'll make it simple for you. Did you earn a PhD in the college you attended? If not, why did you quit? Not goal oriented? Loser? Momma stop paying your bills? :dunno:
 
Last edited:
Well I just watched that video for the first time. It was CLASSIC! Happy Thanksgiving everyone!
 
I think this thread has run it's course. I have enjoyed Jay's posts of the past and his generosity toward pilots. I know many have been welcomed to his place and he has went out of his way to accomodate GA in general.

I think Jay was just expressing his pride over a new toy. It's kinda like your first hot date. Better than bread and butter.

I hope that sometime in the future I can go spend a weekend at his place and share flying tales, drool on his new plane and enjoy the warm south Texas weather.

Ease up on him and each other.
 
Well Said..


navigator44 said:
I think this thread has run it's course. I have enjoyed Jay's posts of the past and his generosity toward pilots. I know many have been welcomed to his place and he has went out of his way to accomodate GA in general.

I think Jay was just expressing his pride over a new toy. It's kinda like your first hot date. Better than bread and butter.

I hope that sometime in the future I can go spend a weekend at his place and share flying tales, drool on his new plane and enjoy the warm south Texas weather.

Ease up on him and each other.
Click to expand...
 
Geico266 said:
Wow, for such a condesending smart guy you would think you could understand it. I'll make it simple for you. Did you earn a PhD in the college you attended? If not, why did you quit? Not goal oriented? Loser? Momma stop paying your bills? :dunno:
Click to expand...


Nope, never got a PhD, but thought about it. The discipline to obtain that level of knowledge would have been an enjoyable pursuit, and, not to mention, the life of a college prof is a pretty good gig. Alas, I settled for a master's degree in my chosen field.

And, coincidentally, I have continued to learn my entire life, seeking out experts to teach and mentor me. Last night was my first night in SCUBA lessons. Love the learning process, from flying lessons, to kayaking, to SCUBA, and I think the learning curves are similar and challenging / rewarding.

Oh, and if you really care about who paid for my college, it was me. Of course, those were simpler times when tuition was significantly less than it is today. A guy could work part time, drink lots of beer, eat pizza, and chase co-eds while still making tuition payments off a part time hourly wage. He'll, even have enough money to rent a c-150 for $25 an hour, pay an instructor $12 an hour.

I don't think kids can do that now days.
 
Geico266 said:
Wow, for such a condesending smart guy you would think you could understand it. I'll make it simple for you. Did you earn a PhD in the college you attended? If not, why did you quit? Not goal oriented? Loser? Momma stop paying your bills? :dunno:
Click to expand...

PhD = Piled Higher and Deeper.
 
JoseCuervo said:
Did anybody say those who are self employed "aren't disciplined"?

My comment was people who missed out on higher education missed out on the discipline of learning to learn. Doesn't mean they can't learn, or don't learn, just that they are, by nature and circumstance, forced to learn from themselves and not learn by taking advantage of collaborators. That is kind of how it ties into the OP.

I would think these characteristics would show up for instructors giving flying lessons. Maybe not. Just a theory based on lots of years of anecdotal observations and learning in various settings.
Click to expand...
I could careless how someone learned what they learned. Take a good look at people who are good at what they do and best of luck figuring out which ones learned on their own and which ones have a more formal education. In my field at least, technology, there is simply no difference.

FWIW I've never seen someone without a formal education discriminate against those that do. I've certainly seen a fair share with formal educations discriminate against those who do not. Luckily, they're few and far between.
 
JoseCuervo said:
On a separate note, there seems to be a personality type/attitude that people similar to the OP exhibit that that throws up some sort of barrier for communication.

I am going thru it with another person right now that has had some success (financial) in life and based upon there good fortune/luck to be at the right place at the right time, they struggle with any sort of self-awareness and introspection.


Just to toss some gas on a fire, here are the attributes that cause this behavior:

  • Self Employed
  • Some level of success, financially
  • Little or no college education
  • Listen to Rush Limbaugh / Fox News

I am going to suggest the Self Employed manifests in that they were successful based upon their own decisions/choices and didn't seek collaboration. Missed out on the forced collaboration of large organizations and the discipline of learning that comes from higher education. The Fox News part is that they only seek information that reinforces their beliefs.

Likely a de-rail of the thread, but it seems to be an attitude that I can identify.
Click to expand...

Yeah! You have an excellent point there.

Bill Gates is an idiot. I get it.
 
JoseCuervo said:
Nope, never got a PhD, but thought about it. The discipline to obtain that level of knowledge would have been an enjoyable pursuit, and, not to mention, the life of a college prof is a pretty good gig. Alas, I settled for a master's degree in my chosen field.

And, coincidentally, I have continued to learn my entire life, seeking out experts to teach and mentor me. Last night was my first night in SCUBA lessons. Love the learning process, from flying lessons, to kayaking, to SCUBA, and I think the learning curves are similar and challenging / rewarding.

Oh, and if you really care about who paid for my college, it was me. Of course, those were simpler times when tuition was significantly less than it is today. A guy could work part time, drink lots of beer, eat pizza, and chase co-eds while still making tuition payments off a part time hourly wage. He'll, even have enough money to rent a c-150 for $25 an hour, pay an instructor $12 an hour.

I don't think kids can do that now days.
Click to expand...

So I pretty much nailed it. You sat around in college drinking beer and smoking pot while others decided it was a waste of time. After receiving your BS you still could not figure out what to do so the school counselors convinced you to move onto grad school, or you couldn't make it in the job world after you found out your BS didn't mean BS. Either way you never finished the college ciriculum by attaining your PhD. ;)

Yet, now you look down your nose at those who decided differently than you. Complete unadultereed bull ****.

I judge people based on their intelligence and how they perceive them selves in the universe, not who signed their sheep skin.

I've been certified SCUBA for 30 years, military paid for it. ;)

Check out 100 people who did pretty well without a formal education.

http://elitedaily.com/news/business/100-top-entrepreneurs-succeeded-college-degree

I've found most people with degrees unable to think outside the box.

d 2 design engineers trying to figure out how to drain a property I was developing. They had been working on the project for a year off and on. Cost me $25k for their "services". When they finally admitted they were stumped and the project was stalled due to drainage issues it took me all of 5 mins to look at the prints and recommend that the city storm water line be lowered a foot. Solved the problem. I sued the engineering firm, they settled by wiping out their bill.

Over educated idiots with superiority complexes abound. They usually become teachers.
 
Last edited:
jesse said:
I could careless how someone learned what they learned. Take a good look at people who are good at what they do and best of luck figuring out which ones learned on their own and which ones have a more formal education. In my field at least, technology, there is simply no difference.

FWIW I've never seen someone without a formal education discriminate against those that do. I've certainly seen a fair share with formal educations discriminate against those who do not. Luckily, they're few and far between.
Click to expand...

Again, you are missing the point. Has nothing to do with being successful or being good at what they do.

The point is how people learn, how they seek collaboration for learning, or, if they dig their heels in and only learn via self taught.

I know tons of people who are successful without higher education. My point is their learning style. That is what I would assume you pick up in flight instruction. Has nothing to do with success.
 
Geico266 said:
So I pretty much nailed it. You sat around in college drinking beer and smoking pot while others decided it was a waste of time. After receiving your BS you still could not figure out what to do so the school counselors convinced you to move onto grad school, or you couldn't make it in the job world after you found out your BS didn't mean BS. Either way you never finished the college ciriculum by attaining your PhD. ;)

Yet, now you look down your nose at those who decided differently than you. Complete unadultereed bull ****.

I judge people based on their intelligence and how they perceive them selves in the universe, not who signed their sheep skin.

I've been certified SCUBA for 30 years, military paid for it. ;)

Check out 100 people who did pretty well without a formal education.

http://elitedaily.com/news/business/100-top-entrepreneurs-succeeded-college-degree
.
Click to expand...


So much fail. But, you do prove the point. You have a world view based on your experiences that you believe to be reality. And then you seek out biased confirmation in order to confirm that belief. Finding the bias, you declare absolute truth.

Example: you found a list of 100 guys. Therefore, your bias is correct. If I found a list of 200 guys without college who failed, would that change your mind?


Let's bring the topic to something you can relate to. How many threads are there on POA that are from 17-18 year old kids that start with "Hey all, I want to be an airline pilot, what do I do to get my goal?"

And, almost invariably, within the first half dozen replies will be "Go to college and get a degree, doesn't matter what degree, just get a college degree as the major airlines require a degree".

Why do you suppose the major airlines require applicants to have college degrees? Do you suppose the airlines have studied the issue and found that people who completed college have developed/proven to have the skills that allow them to learn complex systems and work in a team environment!


Or, how about the military? What is the chance of becoming an officer without a college degree?

You think there is a reason the airlines and the military "discriminate" against those who don't have degrees?
 
Geico266 said:
I've found most people with degrees unable to think outside the box.

d 2 design engineers trying to figure out how to drain a property I was developing. They had been working on the project for a year off and on. Cost me $25k for their "services". When they finally admitted they were stumped and the project was stalled due to drainage issues it took me all of 5 mins to look at the prints and recommend that the city storm water line be lowered a foot. Solved the problem. I sued the engineering firm, they settled by wiping out their bill.

Over educated idiots with superiority complexes abound. They usually become teachers.
Click to expand...

Exactly, again proving the point. You hire a team of engineers to work on a project, for some reason you don't identify, your team lacks leadership, process, resources, collaboration, teamwork, or something, and they fail to deliver and cost you $25k. An expensive lesson you learned, but, the next time you hire engineers, you will be able to rely on the School of Hardknocks $25k tuition you paid.
 
JoseCuervo said:
......expensive lesson you learned, but, the next time you hire engineers, you will be able to rely on the School of Hardknocks $25k tuition you paid.
Click to expand...


Hey Rocket scientist...................

They wiped off the bill..............

Geico didn't pay a dime................

Do they teach reading comprehension in collage ???? :dunno:

Are you the professor for that class??:dunno:

:D:lol::mad2:
 
Wow major thread creep. But I will bite :D

My experience is if I work with a group of people the one or two that have no clue about the job will always be the one with the "formal" higher education.
Self taught people will usually not make it beyond there limits. Some people with degrees seem to get jobs about their ability based on their degrees.

Yes I am self taught. I do have friends with degrees that agree with me on this.
 
Geico266 said:
So I pretty much nailed it. You sat around in college drinking beer and smoking pot while others decided it was a waste of time. After receiving your BS you still could not figure out what to do so the school counselors convinced you to move onto grad school, or you couldn't make it in the job world after you found out your BS didn't mean BS. Either way you never finished the college ciriculum by attaining your PhD. ;)
.
. .
Click to expand...

Nope, you pretty much swung and missed. Didn't nail anything. Well, you did prove my point, you have a world view that you assume everything fits your model, and you struggle to entertain the idea that other solutions could occur. Again, part of the knowledge seeking process. Or, the "learning".

For some reason, you think college kids who drink beer also smoke pot. And, you have a model that is incorrect, but, you live your life believing it. Well, since you didn't go to college, I guess that means you must have drank beer and smoked meth, as meth is more common among those who didn't go to college. See what I did there? I took unrelated facts and drew a conclusion, just like you did. Is my conclusion correct, or is it nonsense?

And, if you really care about my history, I graduated with a degree, moved to a big city, got a job with a growing investment firm for $1256 per month, while paying $550 per month for a studio apartment with a hand-me-down bed on the floor, a $10 coffee table with a13" TV, 2 pans, a handful of silver ware, and an ironing board for a kitchen table. And, worked my ass off, took some classes for professional certifications and licenses, got promotions/opportunities, and then found a masters program that was mostly evenings! and would attend classes from 6p to 10p after starting my workdays at 6:30a.

Funny, none of my life story really fits your "nailed it" knowledge and conclusion. Almost points to you not understanding much of how the world works if you didn't see it. I wonder why that is?
 
N801BH said:
Hey Rocket scientist...................

They wiped off the bill..............

Geico didn't pay a dime................

Do they teach reading comprehension in collage ???? :dunno:

Are you the professor for that class??:dunno:

:D:lol::mad2:
Click to expand...

After kindergarten, I haven't done too much work with "collage".

Glad that Geico prevailed, and glad he can sue people that waste lots of his time and resources, delay his project, all at zero economic impact. Quite an impressive "feet".
 
ron22 said:
Wow major thread creep. But I will bite :D

My experience is if I work with a group of people the one or two that have no clue about the job will always be the one with the "formal" higher education.
Self taught people will usually not make it beyond there limits. Some people with degrees seem to get jobs about their ability based on their degrees.

Yes I am self taught. I do have friends with degrees that agree with me on this.
Click to expand...

Yes, the thread creep is due to losing the topic of the OP struggling with learning in manner that included collaboration and inputs from others, and doing his own physics calculations and coming to an alternate universe where the laws of physics are different for RV drivers.

And, my point being, certain individuals, with a set of characteristics, have a learning style that does not support learning in a certain manner.

Then the "Bill Gates dropped out of Harvard" crowd starts looking for exceptions to prove non-existent rules.
 
I've worked with self-taught. But I'd rather work with self-driven.

I used to work with a lot of electrical engineers who started as radio techs in the Navy during WWII. They got out, used their GI money to pay for their engineering degree, and became some of the best engineers I've ever known. That generation is gone now. Those guys were self-driven.

Jay is self driven, most business owners are. And he was driven to run experiments in his RV. His conclusion about safety was published and peer reviewd.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top