“Bargain” $1,000 phone?

Discussion in 'Hangar Talk' started by FastEddieB, Sep 9, 2019.

  1. FastEddieB

    FastEddieB Final Approach

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    Apple is having an event tomorrow where they’re expected to announce new iPhone models. No doubt some will easily break the $1,000 barrier. Which is an insane amount to spend on a phone.

    No argument from me, if it was “just a phone”. But think of some of the devices it replaces and what they cost...

    1) A compact digital camera. No need for that anymore, and I’m sure many of us have bought our last. And they weren’t cheap, figure at least $200 to $300. And the video quality on modern phones far exceeds the resolution and frame rate of video cameras even a few years ago.

    2) A GPS car navigator. Several hundred dollars there, plus usually the cost of map updates.

    3) A GPS aviation navigator. Not so long ago I spent over $1,200 for a Garmin 295, and more recently a bit more, I think for my 496. And again, the cost of regular database updates. All clearly surpassed by ForeFlight or equivalent on a phone.

    4) An mp3 music/podcast player. How much did we used to spend on iPods and equivalent?

    Not to mention all the user-specific needs it fills - calculator, dB meter, books, news aggregator, social media/internet interface, whatever.

    A $1,000 phone kept for 3 years and then given away translates to about $1/day. Sold on eBay for several hundred dollars when upgrading, and it’s substantially less.

    Stipulated that there are cheaper phones that do all of the above, but my point is that even $1,000 (or more) for these devices is not as outrageous as it seems at first blush.
     
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  2. Lachlan

    Lachlan En-Route

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    Are you paying for the actual device, or some combination of brand recognition, convenience, and apps/licensing of functionality. Don’t forget that you also get the privilege of paying some carrier every month to use your fancy “more than just a phone.” Who’s getting the better deal here, the mfg or the consumer? It’s like buying a home. Pay a hugely overpriced purchase cost for a big wooden cave, then, after paying off the note, you still have to pay taxes just to retain ownership. Who really owns your house? At least you can turn on all the lights inside it with your “more than just a phone.” ;)
     
    Last edited: Sep 9, 2019
  3. SoonerAviator

    SoonerAviator En-Route PoA Supporter

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    So, that's the point. You can buy a phone that does all of that stuff for fractions of that price. Where's the value? Hell, you can buy a NEW iPhone7 for about a 1/3 of that. The only "justification" for paying that much money for one, is to have the latest Apple gadget. It's not really going to be any more reliable than previous models, the improvements are likely to be incremental to the point where most won't notice outside of screen sizes/shapes/etc. The cost of an auto-GPS came down over time, the cost of SLR-cameras came down over time, the cost of MP3 players came down over time . . . the cost of the cell phone has gone up (depending on how much was subsidized by the cell companies).
     
  4. F01LA

    F01LA Line Up and Wait

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    All valid points, and interesting perspective, except that 90% of the time they're used to watch cat videos. Before phones, not everyone purchased compact cameras, GPS devices, MP3 players, and certainly not aviation navigators. And those that did often kept them for 5+ years of occasional use.

    I suppose that for some people, it's a pretty good deal for an all-in-one device. I can't stomach it, though, and I don't believe that the mobile revolution has really improved our lives much.
     
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  5. schmookeeg

    schmookeeg Cleared for Takeoff

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    I don't know of any iPhone user who thought $1,000 was outrageous for their phone. They love them to pieces. There is also the somewhat intangible social status effect that they clearly value. So add "jewelry item" to your list of functions an iPhone performs for some.

    (but not me, with my Pixel 3aXL which I also love :D )
     
  6. GRG55

    GRG55 Final Approach

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    My cell phone provider Marketing Dept likes to call periodically in an effort to upsell me on more wireless services. First, to put in context, I live on a horse ranch in the Rocky foothills and have no cell coverage at my home (need to drive 6 miles north to get a signal).

    The conversations usually go like this:

    Them: "Hello Mr. ______, blah, blah.
    Can you tell me what sorts of things you use your mobile phone for?"


    Me: "I use it to make phone calls"

    --Awkward silence--
    "Anything else?"

    "Well last week I learned how to text to my nieces and nephews"

    --Another awkward silence--
    Etc....

    I'm the phone company's worst customer, LOL.
    So a $1000 phone is out of the question for this Luddite.

    GRG55,
    who thinks rag & tube taildraggers should be the latest hot thing in aviation...
     
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  7. James331

    James331 Touchdown! Greaser!

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    Well the cameras will never be as good as a larger real camera as cameras are all about the glass, and a phone just doesn’t have the real estate for a real lens

    MP3, the phone is larger and the battery isn’t as good as a stand alone music player, if I’m going to be working out or running or something I’ll bring my tiny little music player.

    These phones are really a jack of all trades and master of none, the $1k ones are also quasi jewelry status things.

    Now one thing I will hand to apple, is they have a WAAAY better security stance compared to creepy google/android.
     
    Last edited: Sep 9, 2019
  8. Ryanb

    Ryanb Touchdown! Greaser! PoA Supporter

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    Yeah. The iPhone certainly has a camera with exceptional resolution, but I’m not sure it replaces a DSLR.

    I do agree with Eddie, in the sense that the iPhone isn’t just a cellphone, but more like a Swiss Army knife.
     
  9. kayoh190

    kayoh190 En-Route PoA Supporter

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    The ‘phone’ portion of my thousand dollar device gets used very rarely. :)

    I usually get a new phone every three years or so, so that's less than 30 bucks per month. I'll spend triple that on any average evening out with my wife and friends for dinner and drinks. It's just not a lot of money for what (for better or for worse) is ultimately the most important device I own.

    And this isn't just an Apple thing - the Samsung phones are spendy on the high end as well.
     
  10. Ravioli

    Ravioli Final Approach

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    I'd pay 1k for a good phone. Apple hasn't figured out how to make a good phone, instead they add other useless **** and say "Look at everything it does, how could it POSSIBLY do all that AND make a decent phone call?"
     
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  11. Unit74

    Unit74 Final Approach

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    I literally JUST used my phone for a call. Apparently I can lower my credit card payments with a consolidation loan that has been preapproved. All I have to do is press one to claim my loan.
     
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  12. MauleSkinner

    MauleSkinner Final Approach

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    I would definitely say that’s “for worse”.
     
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  13. murphey

    murphey Final Approach PoA Supporter

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    I want a phone with quality voice sound. I’m still waiting. I want a phone. Not web browser or a camera or....just a phone. Which is why I still have a landline - quality sound. I have friends who only have cell, and as much as I like my friends, I hate talking to them on the phone. Garbled, tinny, difficult to understand.

    More than that, the concept of “putting all my eggs in one basket” is ludicrous. Far too many people put their entire lives in one device. Lose it, you’re toast. You’ve lost contact lists, photos, music, etc. Really now, how often do you think the unwashed masses back up the phone?

    I was happy with my old motorola flip phone, only because I needed communication in snow storms when traveling. But the technology changed and I had to get something newer, so I bought a newer $40 motorola flip phone. Worked just fine. Then needed newer technology, so I went to the AT&T store and bought a used Apple 5 for $200. Not nearly as reliable as the old flip phone. Every few months I have to remove the sim card, reinstall it, and reboot the system. Never had to do that in 20 yrs with the flip phones.

    Only benefit? Had to get a new phone number with the Apple.....ends in 7700.
     
  14. Brad Z

    Brad Z En-Route

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    I'd agree with this.

    It's funny that an iPhone is still called a phone. The phone is the least used feature of the device. That's like calling an Apple Watch a watch.
     
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  15. X3 Skier

    X3 Skier En-Route PoA Supporter

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    I suppose that for those whose stare at their phone for 8 hours a day, $1000 is cheaper than cable.

    I use my 5 SE for phone calls, texting with my kids and grandkids, backup flying with ForeFlight, an occasional photo and checking my credit card and bank accounts. None of these are essential so NFW I’m going to pay $1000 for that.

    Cheers
     
  16. kgruber

    kgruber En-Route

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    By FAR, the best cameras are in Google Pixel phones. AND.............you don't have to deal with ianything!!
     
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  17. kayoh190

    kayoh190 En-Route PoA Supporter

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    I don’t disagree, but as @FastEddieB said in his original post, it’s become a Swiss Army Knife for so many things. When I rent a car I no longer care if it has Navigation. When I fly on an airline it no longer matters if they have entertainment in the seatbacks - hell even if they do it’s ignored since viewing content on my phone is such a better experience. I used to carry a laptop with me on the road and no longer do. I have a DLSR, and while there’re no replacement for lots of glass, the convenience of my phone means the DLSR sits unused in my closet 99% of the time I leave my house. Deposit checks and transfer money instantly from anywhere. Replaced my Fitbit. The list is endless.

    On the flip side, the amount of ‘screen time’ is definitely a problem, and I recognize that. But this falls into the same argument as whether the internet was ultimately a good thing. I can see both sides, but one way or the other it’s certainly changed my life. And now a tiny device in my pocket gives me access to almost all of it. All for one AMU? Sorry, just not going to get my heart rate up about it.
     
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  18. FastEddieB

    FastEddieB Final Approach

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    Quick note...

    I didn’t mean to come across as hawking Apple products. The top-tier phones of other manufacturers have approached and passed the $1,000 mark, so my comments apply to them as well. But I do plan on watching tomorrow’s event.

    Written and posted on my iPhone while waiting for an x-ray (routine diagnostic).
     
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  19. steingar

    steingar Taxi to Parking

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    Do keep in mind that you have pay to keep your phone plugged into the iUniverse. Given that the price goes up quite quickly. I do find mine quite useful, so I don't mind paying for its upkeep. An AMU for a phone will be matched during its lifetime by its upkeep. Says me if you're paying thatch to maintain on of the things you might as well have a good one.
     
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  20. cowman

    cowman En-Route PoA Supporter

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    The term phone doesn't really fit what these things are, it only makes sense knowing what they evolved from.

    Really it's a tiny personal computer that fits in your pocket and can make phone calls as one of it's functions.
     
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  21. James331

    James331 Touchdown! Greaser!

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    Get a Motorola f3

    Super long battery life, great and loud speaker, weighs nothing.

    https://www.ebay.com/itm/Motorola-M...728632&hash=item3fb2a6b690:g:FjIAAOSwMYRaisu-
     
  22. chartbundle

    chartbundle Cleared for Takeoff

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    On voice quality, the thing I'm really noticing these days is latency is sucking badly, maybe it's that I often have to use conference services and VOIP here at home(since 'Verizon', the best coverage anywhere has none here....)

    On the other hand, if my phone disappears tomorrow, I've lost no data. Everything on it is synced to one cloud service or another. The only thing possibly lost would be any texts sent directly to my cell phone number instead of Google Voice, and those are only ever things from the phone company.
     
  23. James331

    James331 Touchdown! Greaser!

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    The cloud, aka someone else’s computer.
     
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  24. asicer

    asicer En-Route

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    I'm holding out for an iPhone SE 2020 at hopefully a lot less than $1000.
     
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  25. FastEddieB

    FastEddieB Final Approach

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    As an aside, with my level of hearing loss I almost automatically go to “speaker” for phone calls. As such, the sound quality is adequate. That may change when I get my Bluetooth-enabled hearing aids in the next few months.
     
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  26. RJM62

    RJM62 Touchdown! Greaser!

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    I just tell them to call me when some manufacturer comes out with a high-end phone with a removable battery. Phones with non-removable batteries are disposable, and I won't pay more than $50.00 for a disposable phone.

    Rich
     
  27. chartbundle

    chartbundle Cleared for Takeoff

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    All batteries are removable, some you can even use the phone after.
     
  28. kgruber

    kgruber En-Route

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    RETAIL on Pixel 3aXL is $459...........All Google..........No chaff

    Usually can get $100 off the phone with the best camera.
     
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  29. RJM62

    RJM62 Touchdown! Greaser!

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    According to a friend of mine in that business, the newer ones are getting more and more difficult to remove, specifically to prevent even phone repair shops from replacing them. Apple is even locking batteries to specific phones to make it more difficult for third-party shops (or the users themselves) to replace them.

    It's planned obsolescence. With the cell phone market having reached saturation and "improvements" consisting mainly of gimmickry for the past few years, manufacturers and service providers are finding it harder to persuade consumers to spends thousands of dollars to replace perfectly-good phones. It's a racket.

    The manufacturers say that it's so they can make the phones waterproof. ********. I own two GoPros with removable batteries. I can strap them to a dolphin's back and they'll come back to me with underwater video. It's just a racket to try to force consumers to replace phones that are perfectly usable other than for the batteries no longer holding a charge.

    I refuse to be part of it. I use an LG V20, which is currently on its third battery. They cost < $15.00 each. I also have a spare V20 just in case I break the one I'm using. I refuse to be sucked into their racket.

    Rich
     
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  30. chartbundle

    chartbundle Cleared for Takeoff

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    What I've realized over the years is the first thing I do is take the tiny phone and shove it in an oversized ruggedized OtterBox or similar case and take it out right before I sell it. So, if they want to sell me a pre-ruggedized phone, with a larger user replaceable battery, headphone jack and MicroSD card slot, I'd happily pay a few more dollars for it.
     
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  31. Salty

    Salty En-Route PoA Supporter

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    A good cell phone destroys the need for carrying any other camera short of a semi-professional DSLR. It's good enough for 100% of "recording an event" use, and even good enough for some professional purposes. But saying phone cameras aren't as good as larger real cameras, is like saying Cessna's aren't as good as F-35's. The $10,000 glass on my DSLR is as useless to me as the F-35 I can't touch when it's not with me because it's inconvienient to carry, or I wasn't planning on needing it.
     
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  32. kayoh190

    kayoh190 En-Route PoA Supporter

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    It's got a nice camera, but the Galaxy S10+ is a much, much better phone otherwise. Just depends on whether you want to pay the premium for it, which is what this thread is all about! ;)
     
  33. James331

    James331 Touchdown! Greaser!

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    Based off googles history I wouldn’t buy one of their devices, seems Apple makes their expensive phones the product, whereas google makes your data the product.
     
  34. Everskyward

    Everskyward Administrator Management Council Member

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    I was going to do that but I drowned my 6S a couple days ago. Now I'm waiting for the Apple event tomorrow. I hear the old models go down (slightly) in price at that time. I want a waterproof one. ;)

    Yes, I'm tied to that Apple products. I'm not frugal enough to buy something I don't really want because it costs less.

    It's a little weird not having a "phone". I use the other functions much more than I do the phone. I have never been one to talk on the phone.
     
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  35. MuseChaser

    MuseChaser Line Up and Wait

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    If a company would produce an open-source version of a smart phone and sell it without ANY Google, Apple, Amazon, or other huge data-mining corporation's garbage on it, they'd probably be overnight millionaires. I've never had a smart phone; my cell phone is a Kyocera DuraXV clamshell I purchased to replace my beloved LGvx8300 when it FINALLY died after about twelve years. The Kyocera is a great solid phone. Period. Exactly what I want.

    Back to the smart phone... GPS signals are free, and you should be able to choose what map software you'd like to use without GoogleMaps tracking your life or having to jailbreak your phone. You should not have to setup an account with ANY phone manufacturer to use its functions or "log in" to your own phone. I have a tablet for flying, and it irked me to no end to be FORCED to setup a Google account just to use it. There's no need, and I have every "Google" function disabled on it that I could. I'd buy a phone that let me take great pictures and video, use data, swap and backup my OWN data to my OWN server at home via BT/WIFI/ or SD card (like I do for every OTHER computer on my network!), use for navigation via builtin gps, etc, without having to be assimilated into the Google/Apple Borg instantly... I'd buy two of those yesterday! With things as they stand now, I'll never buy a smart phone... and don't get me started about Echo, Alexa, Google Home, and whatever the iSpy version of those things is....

    I have an ancient Toshiba Thrive tablet that I rooted and installed a google-free operating system on, along with a couple apps from fdroid and learned how to sideload, but the tablet is soooo ancient that it's pretty much useless as anything other than an experiment now. I'd hesitate to go through that process and void the warranty on an expensive new device... plus, at least from what I've found, the choices of software that do NOT invade your privacy are pretty thin.

    Someone... please... start making such a thing.. or if it's out there already and I'm just oblivious... TEACH ME TONIGHT!!!
     
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  36. chartbundle

    chartbundle Cleared for Takeoff

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    PinePhone(coming soon/eventually): https://www.pine64.org/pinephone/

    Purism Librem(Q3... which year, maybe 2019): https://puri.sm/
     
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  37. schmookeeg

    schmookeeg Cleared for Takeoff

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    I normally like to join these libertarian war-marches, but as an App developer, I have about $8,000 worth of data-collectors, nee "phones" on my desk, and have google and apple so far up my data bung, they could run my life automatically for me at this point. I should just ask them to periodically send me products from Amazon, pay my bills, and remind me when to do laundry.

    +1 on the Librem though. If I wasn't already a privacy lost cause, I'd probably have one of those. :D
     
  38. MuseChaser

    MuseChaser Line Up and Wait

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    Wow!! Both almost exactly what I thought would never exist... great news, and serious kudos to those behind the efforts. The only gotcha is, as usual, the compatibility issue. After reading through those two links (admittedly quickly), Puri has its own proprietary operating system, and PinePhone will run a fork of Linux. I'm still VERY interested, but the chances of being able to use either as a backup for iFly or FltPlanGo in flight are pretty much nil.. unless some serious coding pilot decides to jump in, sort of like the Avare folks. Thanks for the links.. I will be watching them very closely!
     
  39. kayoh190

    kayoh190 En-Route PoA Supporter

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    I'm right there with you man - I absolutely love the idea, but I sold my soul for convenience years ago.
     
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  40. FastEddieB

    FastEddieB Final Approach

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    I always thought Apple was missing the “Sport” market, with something like the old Sony Sport Walkmans.