CFI lesson plans for purchase

PeterNSteinmetz

Ejection Handle Pulled
Joined
Sep 9, 2015
Messages
2,653
Location
Tempe, AZ
Display Name

Display name:
PeterNSteinmetz
So I learned painfully today that I need to obtain some lesson plans for teaching recreational, private, commercial, and add-on CFIs that adhere much more tightly to the ACS and PTS topics. (My lesson plans based on how to actually teach the student will not cut it.)

So what purchasable sets of lesson plans do people recommend?

I assume these will be sure to cover each item in each task designated in the CFI SEL & SES PTS, roughly in order given.
 
Purchasing someone else's lesson plans is a bad idea. They should be made by each CFI to match their own teaching style.
 
"[they won't] cut it"

Why? Is this for CFI check ride? employer?
 
So I learned painfully today that I need to obtain some lesson plans for teaching recreational, private, commercial, and add-on CFIs that adhere much more tightly to the ACS and PTS topics. (My lesson plans based on how to actually teach the student will not cut it.)

So what purchasable sets of lesson plans do people recommend?

I assume these will be sure to cover each item in each task designated in the CFI SEL & SES PTS, roughly in order given.

Check out backseat pilot... their lesson plans are awesome.

https://thebackseatpilot.com/
 
Purchasing someone else's lesson plans is a bad idea. They should be made by each CFI to match their own teaching style.

I agree, but apparently the examiners these days want a pretty much exact regurgitation of what is in the PTS for a given task. So, for example, for Part II, Task B, of the CFI PTS you must mention all 17 points when you teach about runway incursion avoidance. Or at least the person examining me stated that was a requirement. A failure to mention any of them is an unsat.

I don't agree that is good teaching or wise, but I am told that is what the FAA wants the examiners to do these days.

"[they won't] cut it"

Why? Is this for CFI check ride? employer?

I also am not clear on who won't accept these and why not.

Yes, CFI SEL add-on. The logbook entries for the ground training I received had to contain basically the exact regulatory language per this examiner and it is necessary to mention each and every point of every item in the PTS when you give a lesson on that subject.

I actually have a full set of syllabi and lesson plans which I developed and something like runway incursion avoidance would be integrated to the entire course of instruction.

But this examiner was evidently disturbed that he couldn't check off a set of boxes. So I am interested in obtaining a set of lesson plans that will make sure all the boxes can be checked.
 
Last edited:
Thanks for the suggestions so far. I am interested to hear more what people think about the requirement to mention each item specifically in the PTS in a given lesson as well as the requirement for regulatory language in the ground log entries. Is that common? Wise to teach that way?
 
That type of pedantry is what removes discretion and experience from instruction. The lesson plan essentially becomes a checklist and the lesson is a race to complete all the required items in the allotted time. It’s foolish from a practical perspective. But for an examination, I can partially see that the examiner wants to see that you are well versed in all the items. It may be one of those things you suck up for the check-ride then scrap. Personally, I wouldn’t be looking for a candidate’s ability to speak on every specific item, but more for their competence in addressing each subject. I don’t know what to tell you, find a different examiner or just do what this guy requires.
 
That type of pedantry is what removes discretion and experience from instruction.

Given how many 250 hour wonder-CFIs are out there grinding their way briefly to a right seat job, I agree with you -- this is exactly the point, intent, and benefit of death-hugging the ACS. I can only imagine what sort of trash the DPEs get when people get all free-spirit on them for their 7 month tenure as "CFI".
 
There is no requirement to bring lesson plans with you to the checkride. Furthermore, the Runway Incursions task is not in the list for AOA IV (Preflight Lesson on a Maneuver to be Performed In Flight), so premade lesson plans may not even contain a lesson on Runway Incursions. It would seem having a copy of the PTS to reference would be adequate.
 
Check out backseat pilot... their lesson plans are awesome.

https://thebackseatpilot.com/

This is who I used for mine, they were a fantastic starting point, and was going to suggest them earlier but couldn't remember the name.

Also, ASA has a book for $20 that I have as well that was useful for basic lesson plans.
 
There is no requirement to bring lesson plans with you to the checkride. Furthermore, the Runway Incursions task is not in the list for AOA IV (Preflight Lesson on a Maneuver to be Performed In Flight), so premade lesson plans may not even contain a lesson on Runway Incursions. It would seem having a copy of the PTS to reference would be adequate.

Pretty sure my examiner didn't even look at mine.
 
There are plenty of lesson plans available for purchase. There is an advantage to rolling our own but there's also not that much reason to reinvent the wheel, especially when "the wheel" has been refined for decades by the major providers of lesson plans to the Part 141 industry - Gleim, Sporty, King, Jepp.... I wrote maybe a half dozen plans for my oral ; the rest were 20+ year old hand-me-downs from my instructor.

I only have two pieces of advice.

If you are looking for those which make an attempt to comply with the detail of the ACS, stick with the newest ones from the major providers.
The bottom line, as my examiner said on my CFI oral when he saw what I had, is not where the lesson plans come from but whether you can use them.
 
So way back when, a lesson plan included:

Objective
Elements
Schedule
Equipment
Instructor actions
Student actions
Completion standards

seems to me that “equipment” should include the PTS/ACS, as appropriate, and “instructor actions” should include “review ACS requirements”. You’d get all 17 line items that way, and you wouldn’t have to review/revise your entire stack of lesson plans every time they revise an ACS.

is the examiner not good with that?
 
So I learned painfully today that I need to obtain some lesson plans for teaching recreational, private, commercial, and add-on CFIs that adhere much more tightly to the ACS and PTS topics. (My lesson plans based on how to actually teach the student will not cut it.)

So what purchasable sets of lesson plans do people recommend?

I assume these will be sure to cover each item in each task designated in the CFI SEL & SES PTS, roughly in order given.
Hi Peter!
See POA thread:

https://www.pilotsofamerica.com/com...-cfi-lesson-plans-electronic-delivery.125355/

These were made in 2018 when I went through CFI. Only good reviews.
 
Hi Peter!
See POA thread:

https://www.pilotsofamerica.com/com...-cfi-lesson-plans-electronic-delivery.125355/

These were made in 2018 when I went through CFI. Only good reviews.
From the other thread.

preview-3-png.84489


I'm sure this is what you were taught by some well intended but sadly misinformed individual. But, none the less, it is disheartening to see these fairy tales being passed from generation to generation of pilots / instructors. The idea that camber somehow increases velocity over the top is complete and utter horse ****. Also, the idea that there are bouncing balls of air deflected by the bottom of the wing. And, if the air actually flowed over the wing as you have it drawn, you would get exactly zero lift.

Newtons laws apply equally to both sides of the wing and explain the velocity differences. Bernoulli, while useful in some cases, is more of a red herring when it comes to explaining lift.

Shameless self promotion

A longer version, but by an actual expert
 
From the other thread.

Newtons laws apply equally to both sides of the wing and explain the velocity differences. Bernoulli, while useful in some cases, is more of a red herring when it comes to explaining lift.

[/MEDIA]

A longer version, but by an actual expert

I have recently been reading "An Introduction to Flight" by Anderson, which is a sophomore level college textbook in aerodynamics.

What the Capt. says here is fundamentally true. Lift is generated by the different pressure distributions on the top and bottom of the wing, which are explained by and can be derived from Newton's laws applied to a fluid. Bernoulli's law can be derived from those underlying physical laws. It is also true that fluids flow faster in areas of lower pressure.

In aviation training, I have noticed that instructors use a number of rough approximations of these ideas to explain the generation of lift, induced drag, ground effect, etc. That is not necessarily a bad thing per se given that many students may not have had calculus, or if they did, it was a long time ago. But I think these simplifications give rise to troubles in teaching for 2 reasons:

1. They are often not qualified appropriately as such and with proper reference to the true underlying physical principles. For example, one can say "The lift on the wing is generated by a difference in the pressure distributions between the top and the bottom of the wing which are created by the air flowing over the wing. While these are complicated to compute in exact form, here is a simplified way to think about it...". Then the student understands that the little cartoon is not a full physical explanation, but rather a cartoon to help understanding.

2. Many instructors and examiners have their preferred cartoon way of dealing with this and seem to forget that these are just rough approximations and also are convinced that all other approximations and cartoons are just flat out wrong. Of course, in many cases, they are probably just inaccurate approximations in a different way.

Personally I think the cartoons can be useful, so long as they are used as such. Our flight students are not often going to want or need an aeronautical engineering level of understanding. What they will need is some sort of mnemonic device to help them remember the main effects, such as AoA and stalls, DA, etc. and the ability to pass the FAA exams.
 
recreational pilot? Has any DPE every covered details around this cert, besides just knowing it exists?

The lesson plans for Rec, private and Commercial aren't going to substainlly Different.
 
Purchasing someone else's lesson plans is a bad idea. They should be made by each CFI to match their own teaching style.

Respectfully I must disagree (unless your post was sarcasm). I suggest that pre-written lesson plans are an excellent place to start and can be used after you've verified to your own satisfaction that they meet FAA standards. Further I suggest that modifications are appropriate based on the student's learning style. I am not a fan of re-inventing the wheel. I would agree that by writing your own from scratch you will gain a deep understanding of the lessons planned.
 
I have recently been reading "An Introduction to Flight" by Anderson, which is a sophomore level college textbook in aerodynamics.
And quite readable. The only calculus is in the derivation of Bernoulli's equation. The biggest problem is that current editions command text book prices. With luck you can find an older edition for a reasonable price.

Many instructors and examiners have their preferred cartoon way of dealing with this and seem to forget that these are just rough approximations and also are convinced that all other approximations and cartoons are just flat out wrong. Of course, in many cases, they are probably just inaccurate approximations in a different way.

Cartoons are useful. But they should be consistent with the laws of physics. Which are not opinions.

I suggest that pre-written lesson plans are an excellent place to start

I agree. At a college level, it's pretty typical to download a set of powerpoint (gag me with a spoon (that's an opinion)) slides from whoever publishes the textbook and go from there.
 
Oh, and to be clear.
Obviously, a pilot has no actual need to understand the physics underlying how a wing generates lift (and 99% don't). But I don't see that as an excuse for nonsense. A legitimate explanation just isn't that hard.
 
And quite readable. The only calculus is in the derivation of Bernoulli's equation. The biggest problem is that current editions command text book prices. With luck you can find an older edition for a reasonable price.

Agreed, very readable. The presentation has clearly been nicely refined over the years and editions.

If anyone wants a copy at a reasonable price, I can sell them one of mine. I bought a used one recently when I became interested in this again and forgot that a friend had given me a copy decades ago.
 
For my CFI oral, I took a few lesson plans along that I had prepared. In the examination I was required to prepare a lesson to teach something (forget what). Expecting a CFI candidate to bring lesson plans for everything he (or she) might be asked to teach, is, IMO, unrealistic. More important to be able to demonstrate how to create an effective lesson plan.
 
For my CFI oral, I took a few lesson plans along that I had prepared. In the examination I was required to prepare a lesson to teach something (forget what). Expecting a CFI candidate to bring lesson plans for everything he (or she) might be asked to teach, is, IMO, unrealistic. More important to be able to demonstrate how to create an effective lesson plan.
Seems like there was a thread a while back about a failed instructor oral because the applicant didn’t have a lesson plan for some specific lesson (and apparently couldn’t write one).
 
Oh, and to be clear.
Obviously, a pilot has no actual need to understand the physics underlying how a wing generates lift (and 99% don't). But I don't see that as an excuse for nonsense. A legitimate explanation just isn't that hard.

I also agree with this sentiment but be aware the official FAA material hasn’t caught up to modern thought on lift and most instructors are going to teach to their material...

Some, perhaps even most, DPEs get it... some want to see FAA material...

Until FAA catches up, expect oddities in what and how it’s being taught... is all I’m sayin’.

If we’re lucky we’ll even get some reasonable “standard” way to teach the approximations since the deep math detail level really isn’t necessary for most pilots. But ... I’m not holding my breath on that.
 
If we’re lucky we’ll even get some reasonable “standard” way to teach the approximations since the deep math detail level really isn’t necessary for most pilots.
id go a step further and say the deep math detail isn’t even possible for most pilots.
 
I agree, but apparently the examiners these days want a pretty much exact regurgitation of what is in the PTS for a given task. So, for example, for Part II, Task B, of the CFI PTS you must mention all 17 points when you teach about runway incursion avoidance. Or at least the person examining me stated that was a requirement. A failure to mention any of them is an unsat.

I don't agree that is good teaching or wise, but I am told that is what the FAA wants the examiners to do these days.





Yes, CFI SEL add-on. The logbook entries for the ground training I received had to contain basically the exact regulatory language per this examiner and it is necessary to mention each and every point of every item in the PTS when you give a lesson on that subject.

I actually have a full set of syllabi and lesson plans which I developed and something like runway incursion avoidance would be integrated to the entire course of instruction.

But this examiner was evidently disturbed that he couldn't check off a set of boxes. So I am interested in obtaining a set of lesson plans that will make sure all the boxes can be checked.

You sort of answered you own question, and the problem is premade lesson plans and applicants making their own tend to make them to complicated.
You are correct the examiner needs to check off all the boxes in the PTS. But this is easily covered by simply including those boxes (copy and paste) into your lesson plan.
Then the hard part is you need to make sure you can explain each of those check boxes with instructional knowledge.
This is the same as your students will need to do for their checkrides. Most of my lessons start off by opening the airplane flying hand book and/or the ACS/PTS. For the check ride you will only be able to that for a limited number of topics as you should know what the say, but the Lesson plan will insure you don't miss any sub-topics.

Brian
CFIIG/ASEL
 
You are correct the examiner needs to check off all the boxes in the PTS.

This is what threw me initially. I thought I should be prepared to teach students, like private or commercial students.

But the DPEs now sort of want a weird meta-exercise. As though you are teaching a CFI candidate how to teach another CFI candidate. Admittedly that could happen, but is a far less common case. I don't think I would ever sit down and teach a private or commercial student a separate lesson plan on runway incursion avoidance. It is integrated into a curriculum which actually flows and makes sense in the proper order.

But that is the way they want it, so best to do it that way for the CFI exam!
 
This is what threw me initially. I thought I should be prepared to teach students, like private or commercial students.

But the DPEs now sort of want a weird meta-exercise. As though you are teaching a CFI candidate how to teach another CFI candidate. Admittedly that could happen, but is a far less common case. I don't think I would ever sit down and teach a private or commercial student a separate lesson plan on runway incursion avoidance. It is integrated into a curriculum which actually flows and makes sense in the proper order.

But that is the way they want it, so best to do it that way for the CFI exam!

Correct, think of it this way, When your newly soloed student taxi's onto an active runway without clearance and the FAA calls you in to make sure you taught them about runway incursion avoidance, you should be able to give them same lesson you should give the Examiner. Also Examiners/FAA are getting a lot more picky about being able to look in the students logbook and see where you covered the required (ACS) topic. I.E. on what lesson did you cover runway incursion avoidance.(surface operations). In theory when we endorse their log book that says we provided training per CFR § 61.87 should be good enough. But the FAA/examiners are want to see more, and it is a good idea to have each topic logged in their logbook.

CFIIG/ASEL
 
This is what threw me initially. I thought I should be prepared to teach students, like private or commercial students.

But the DPEs now sort of want a weird meta-exercise.

For what it's worth, the checkride has been that way for quite a while. The initial flight instructor checkride is a combination between a knowledge depth check and a check to see if you can transmit that knowledge to someone else. In most cases I've seen, the check to see if the applicant can teach is quite questionable because the expectations are all over the board.

As far as lesson plans go, my opinion has changed after spending a number of years teaching commercial pilots how to be instructors. Initially I felt that it was important for my students to write their own lesson plans but there is so little attention given to them on the checkride (you could show up with no plans and pass just fine) that I think the time spent writing a set would be much better spent studying other things.
 
Initially I felt that it was important for my students to write their own lesson plans but there is so little attention given to them on the checkride (you could show up with no plans and pass just fine) that I think the time spent writing a set would be much better spent studying other things.
I showed up for all 4 of mine with no written lesson plans, was given a lesson to teach, wrote up a lesson plan, and taught it.
 
In theory when we endorse their log book that says we provided training per CFR § 61.87 should be good enough. But the FAA/examiners are want to see more, and it is a good idea to have each topic logged in their logbook.

Seems to be the trend. Best to explicitly log pretty much the exact regulatory language for each requirement stated in the appropriate FARs.
 
This is what threw me initially. I thought I should be prepared to teach students, like private or commercial students.

But the DPEs now sort of want a weird meta-exercise. As though you are teaching a CFI candidate how to teach another CFI candidate. Admittedly that could happen, but is a far less common case. I don't think I would ever sit down and teach a private or commercial student a separate lesson plan on runway incursion avoidance. It is integrated into a curriculum which actually flows and makes sense in the proper order.

But that is the way they want it, so best to do it that way for the CFI exam!
Correct, think of it this way, When your newly soloed student taxi's onto an active runway without clearance and the FAA calls you in to make sure you taught them about runway incursion avoidance, you should be able to give them same lesson you should give the Examiner.
Excellent example.
There are any number of things an instructor can be called upon to teach besides a straight-through syllabus. Flight reviews, instrument proficiency checks, aircraft checkouts, etc., many of which need to be individualized enough in real life that you’ll need to develop a lesson plan at the time rather than relying on “canned” lesson plans.
 
I showed up for all 4 of mine with no written lesson plans, was given a lesson to teach, wrote up a lesson plan, and taught it.

I am curious, when did you do that?

It seems like nowadays if you are going to make up a lesson plan for a task from the PTS, better have the PTS there and be sure each of the items in the PTS is explicitly in the lesson. At least some DPEs want to check their boxes.

And I agree with those who have posted above. This is not a particularly good way to assess someone's teaching ability or whether they will be able to put together meaningful customized lessons in the future.

I suppose it may explain some of the complaints we hear occasionally on PoA of younger CFIs from the big schools not really knowing how to teach.
 
I am curious, when did you do that?

It seems like nowadays if you are going to make up a lesson plan for a task from the PTS, better have the PTS there and be sure each of the items in the PTS is explicitly in the lesson. At least some DPEs want to check their boxes.

And I agree with those who have posted above. This is not a particularly good way to assess someone's teaching ability or whether they will be able to put together meaningful customized lessons in the future.

I suppose it may explain some of the complaints we hear occasionally on PoA of younger CFIs from the big schools not really knowing how to teach.
This was 30 years ago.

did the examiner say that the method in post #16 was invalid?
 
Back
Top