Oh boy, unlicensed pilots and overbearing managers

I wonder if the airport manager has a duty to prevent reckless operations?
 
If I came back to the ramp and some moron put a chain on my plane, wed be having a rather serious come to jesus
 
Wouldn't that be unlawful seizure if not outright theft or property? At the very least it seems a gross over reach of authority by the airport manager.
 
Juliet Hotel said:
Wouldn't that be unlawful seizure if not outright theft or property? At the very least it seems a gross over reach of authority by the airport manager.
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I would think so. Probably depends on what the airport bylaws are. Either or, I think I’d find a pair of bolt cutters and keep my airplane elsewhere.
 
I know several folks in Alaska flying with no license :0

Damn good pilots though. Learned in a PA-12 at like 14 lol.
 
Juliet Hotel said:
Wouldn't that be unlawful seizure if not outright theft or property? At the very least it seems a gross over reach of authority by the airport manager.
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Remember who we are talking about: an untrained idiot pilot endangering people.
 
I'd guess that it's no different than getting booted by a private company in their parking lot.
 
James331 said:
If I came back to the ramp and some moron put a chain on my plane, wed be having a rather serious come to jesus
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And I thought you were one of the major proponents of personal responsibility on this site?

If some moron took out lights at my airport I would expect the airport manager to take action to repair, initiate the come to jesus discussion with the perpetrator, and recover the cost immediately. I know that is what would happen at my home airport.

If it takes a chain on the prop to get that moron's full attention, so be it.
 
A1Topgun said:
It is called "Tampering with an Federally Registered Aircraft" and is a Federal Offense.
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LOL. Bit of double standard at work here, isn't there?
 
Bonchie said:
I'd guess that it's no different than getting booted by a private company in their parking lot.
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Not quite. It's a Federal law to mess with an aircraft. Even an FAA ASI can't chain an aircraft. And if the airport has received federal funds the airport manager will be visited by the appropriate authorities. There are established methods to deal with that situation.
 
GRG55 said:
And I thought you were one of the major proponents of personal responsibility on this site?

If some moron took out lights at my airport I would expect the airport manager to take action to repair, initiate the come to jesus discussion with the perpetrator, and recover the cost immediately. I know that is what would happen at my home airport.

If it takes a chain on the prop to get that moron's full attention, so be it.
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So call the feds, put the runway light damages on his tie down bill, or sue him, lots of options, chaining someone elses plane up is not a valid option
 
Bell206 said:
Not quite. It's a Federal law to mess with an aircraft. Even an FAA ASI can't chain an aircraft. And if the airport has received federal funds the airport manager will be visited by the appropriate authorities. There are established methods to deal with that situation.
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What "established methods" will stop an imminent threat? Filling out a form and sending it to the FAA?
 
A1Topgun said:
It is called "Tampering with an Federally Registered Aircraft" and is a Federal Offense.
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As someone who has spent a long career in law enforcement, both at the local/state level and federal level, I always chuckle when someone mentions “federal offense” , like somehow that means SO MUCH MORE TROUBLE!!! You apparently don’t realize that being a federal offense really means only one thing: the offender is MUCH more likely to get away with the offense without being prosecuted. Feds spend 95% of their time figuring out ways to pass the buck, deny prosecution, etc.
Not to say it was ok for the guy to take it upon himself to lock up a plane...just that you probably won't get far calling the feds.
 
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What was the plane..... a KA 350 or one of those super light sport planes that you fold up and put away..??

Not enough story here to make a comment.
 
Wow The commentary on that thread makes PoA look like a bunch of prim and proper gents.
 
Kenny Phillips said:
What "established methods" will stop an imminent threat? Filling out a form and sending it to the FAA?
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No form needed. Call 911. Even ASIs are required to call local authorities. Depending on type/size of airport, local or state law enforcement have the initial response jurisdiction. That is the reason "law enforcement officer" is included in 61.3(l), 65.89, and the reason you see cops dragging people off aircraft. If the issue extends into federal policy then the FBI gives someone a call or visit.
 
Zeldman is right; there are more questions than answers in the story.
The pilot packed up his plane and left Thursday morning.
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That last sentence makes it sound like it may have been a Part 103 ultralight that can be disassembled, "packed up", and hauled off pretty easily. No airman certificate required.
 
What kind of plane can knock out a bunch of lights and still be flyable. Especially in the ultralight sport category?
 
benyflyguy said:
What kind of plane can knock out a bunch of lights and still be flyable. Especially in the ultralight sport category?
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There can be a lot of kinetic energy in a part 103 airplane with a heavy pilot flying at cruise speed; an Aerolite 103 has a gross weight of 600 pounds. A number of ultralights have welded cromoly steel tubing "fuselages", and depending on the kind of lights it's conceivable an ultralight could probably take out a few.

It's not clear from the article that it was flown after it took out the lights except to land. The airport manager padlocked the prop Monday night following that landing, and the owner packed it up and left Thursday.
 
"The pilot packed up his plane and left Thursday morning."

how? trailered it out? couldn't fly it out since it was chained and if the airport mgr removed the chains and allowed the owner to fly out wouldn't that mgr have been liable should there have been an accident upon takeoff?
 
If the runway light is FAA approved it will shear off at the base with minimal force. We have had lights taken out from the heavy wet snow thrown from the snow plow.
 
rk911 said:
"The pilot packed up his plane and left Thursday morning."

how? trailered it out? couldn't fly it out since it was chained and if the airport mgr removed the chains and allowed the owner to fly out wouldn't that mgr have been liable should there have been an accident upon takeoff?
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'zactly.
 
Zeldman said:
What was the plane..... a KA 350 or one of those super light sport planes that you fold up and put away..??

Not enough story here to make a comment.
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Yeah, I agree with you. Something seems to be missing.
 
paflyer said:
Agree, Jim Roy!
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?
Some great minds think alike


Besides that looks like a fake profile, probably one of those pesky sex bots....or is it russan bots, I can never keep it straight
 
Kenny Phillips said:
Remember who we are talking about: an untrained idiot pilot endangering people.
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Irrelevant. It is either legal for an airport manage to tamper with and seize aircraft or it is not. I didn't have a pilot certificate when I soloed and when my CFI signed my logbook, I don't recall having to go demonstrate my abilities to the airport manager so I could get the plane unlocked and solo in it.
 
Juliet Hotel said:
Irrelevant. It is either legal for an airport manage to tamper with and seize aircraft or it is not. I didn't have a pilot certificate when I soloed and when my CFI signed my logbook, I don't recall having to go demonstrate my abilities to the airport manager so I could get the plane unlocked and solo in it.
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Right... but if it WAS an ultralight as has been theorized, then it's not an "aircraft" anyway. And in order for the airport manager to be charged, I'm guessing someone would have to complain... which an unlicensed pilot flying illegally very likely wouldn't do, and a guy who was flying an ultralight and damaging things probably wouldn't either.

Tempest in a teapot if ever there was one.
 
Many experimental aircraft can either femove the wings or foldmthem up. Some experimentals are even advertised as "trailerable." But first I would take lots of pictures, buy bolt cutters, remove the lock, keep the chain, call the cops then fly away. Airport managers aren't traffic cops who can put a boot on a vehicle they don't like.
 
DaleB said:
Right... but if it WAS an ultralight as has been theorized, then it's not an "aircraft" anyway. And in order for the airport manager to be charged, I'm guessing someone would have to complain... which an unlicensed pilot flying illegally very likely wouldn't do, and a guy who was flying an ultralight and damaging things probably wouldn't either.

Tempest in a teapot if ever there was one.
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Still Irrelevant. Wrong is wrong no matter the details.
 
Hank S said:
Many experimental aircraft can either femove the wings or foldmthem up. Some experimentals are even advertised as "trailerable." But first I would take lots of pictures, buy bolt cutters, remove the lock, keep the chain, call the cops then fly away. Airport managers aren't traffic cops who can put a boot on a vehicle they don't like.
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It probably wasn’t airworthy after apparently destroying a runway light or two?
 
woodchucker said:
It probably wasn’t airworthy after apparently destroying a runway light or two?
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Whacking an apparently easy-to-break light fixture with a tire makes a plane unairworthy? Or are you imagining serial groundloops where the wing somehow impacted multiple ground lights? Flat tires can be fixed or replaced, making the plane suddenly airworthy again. It's even permitted owner maintenance.
 
I’m imagining that young gal who landed without a wheel and the runway light left a healthy gouge in the wing.
 
Those lights are designed to break away with very little force. You can take one out with a tire or wheel pant and barely leave a mark much less render the aircraft no longer airworthy.
 
I'd definitely be checking the prop for nicks after some angry Airport Manager dragged a chain across it. ;)
 
Can you just roll up to any public airport with plane in tow, unload and fly? Does the airport manager have the authority to tell you no? Does the manager have the authority to ask for airworthiness docs and pilot certs?
 
A lock or chain is pretty easily defeated with some common tools available at just about any hardware/home improvement store.
 
Brad Smith said:
Can you just roll up to any public airport with plane in tow, unload and fly? Does the airport manager have the authority to tell you no? Does the manager have the authority to ask for airworthiness docs and pilot certs?
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Apparently the flyer was unmolested until his reckless flying caused damage and endangered others. So, yes, you can unload and fly your FAA registered and airworthy plane.
 
Juliet Hotel said:
Those lights are designed to break away with very little force. You can take one out with a tire or wheel pant and barely leave a mark much less render the aircraft no longer airworthy.
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I've seen a wheel pant that clipped a light. It needed to be replaced. Even if the lights weren't attached, they weigh several pounds, and you can't beat physics. If you clip something that weighs five pounds while driving down the highway, it will leave a mark.
 
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