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It has always amused me how hard ham radio operators will look for any conceivable way to interpret anything you please as violating some FCC rule. They can get to be worse than a bunch of Talmudic scholars debating the finer point of some hypothetical question. I see pilots are no different. :)
 
It has always amused me how hard ham radio operators will look for any conceivable way to interpret anything you please as violating some FCC rule. They can get to be worse than a bunch of Talmudic scholars debating the finer point of some hypothetical question. I see pilots are no different. :)
:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:
 
It has always amused me how hard ham radio operators will look for any conceivable way to interpret anything you please as violating some FCC rule. They can get to be worse than a bunch of Talmudic scholars debating the finer point of some hypothetical question. I see pilots are no different. :)

+1 What is this obsession with regs in some people. I'm am still amazed that any human with such limited time on earth would spend countless hours memorizing the FAR/AIM and considering its possible interpretations. Why not learn the tax code instead and make some money with it. Flying in the Bahamas with their laid back, common sense approach to flying, was liberating.
 
Just a question... Being that I don't know the regs yet... Could it be interpreted as being compensated for flight? How does this mesh with a private pilot being required to pay at least his pro-rata share?

Sorry - don't want to rain on any parades, just wanto to understand.

Not really, there also has to be a linkage between the flight and the money. Since they never discussed anything for the flight except for company and conversation, she didn't hold out and there is no showable linkage between that flight and money on account. Besides, this is not something the FAA is inclined to waste time on, they have air carriers to deal with and shrinking budgets.
 
It has always amused me how hard ham radio operators will look for any conceivable way to interpret anything you please as violating some FCC rule. They can get to be worse than a bunch of Talmudic scholars debating the finer point of some hypothetical question. I see pilots are no different. :)

Check out boat captains sometimes, especially those of us that ply international routes. We have so many different sets of rules, often changing, to deal with sometimes we have to employ people, 'Agents', to get us through them all. Luckily in most of the world it's just about getting some more money, however someplaces are quite unfriendly about the slightest rules transgressions which can tie you up at the dock for days; sometimes with port charges in the thousands of dollars per hour. Most of the stuff is ridiculous, but it's still there.
 
Good for you, Kim. And the ability to graciously accept a compliment or a gift freely given is a skill not always seen.
 
According to Kimberly's original post...
we have never met in person, face to face
there was no flight involved... so obviously she's not getting compensated for flying. If somebody gives me a gift certificate for an hour's worth of rental time at the local FBO, is someone going to jail? Of course not. So...
Could it be interpreted as being compensated for flight?
Nope.
 
OMG people I wanted to post a happy story about a happy day. That involved flying. I've seen a lot of not so nice threads around here and I wanted to show off that there are GOOD PEOPLE ON POA DOING GOOD THINGS FOR PILOTS.

If my Mom bought me a gift certificate for a flight and I posted it on here, would you call the FAA?

How is this any different? I have never MET OR FLOWN WITH THIS PERSON.

Sure, I am "friends" with this person and heck I'm friends with lots of people on POA. And again, I can't go into details about what I've done for this person etc because they want to be anon. And I think I should respect that.
 
No worries, Kim... you're fine.

Folks, anybody can give you money for you to take yourself flying. It's when they give you money to take them flying, or something of theirs flying, that you may run afoul of regs regarding compensation.
 
Another thing - if you put MONEY on my account at my flight school, I still buy sectionals, TACs, and AFDs when they expire. Technically, since this wasn't a huge lump of money, you could say I spent the entire amount on SureCheck checklists, POHs, and charts. Then I'm not getting paid for flight at all. Does the FAA say a friend can't buy me a sectional????
 
OMG people I wanted to post a happy story about a happy day. That involved flying. I've seen a lot of not so nice threads around here and I wanted to show off that there are GOOD PEOPLE ON POA DOING GOOD THINGS FOR PILOTS.

If my Mom bought me a gift certificate for a flight and I posted it on here, would you call the FAA?

How is this any different? I have never MET OR FLOWN WITH THIS PERSON.

Sure, I am "friends" with this person and heck I'm friends with lots of people on POA. And again, I can't go into details about what I've done for this person etc because they want to be anon. And I think I should respect that.

Wow. I didn't call the FAA, and wasn't planning to. I asked a question because I wanted to learn (and stated so). Isn't part of the good people do on here, teaching others what they know???
 
"Here is your paycheck. Now you can go fly."

I think that if one was to argue that accepting money gifted for the purpose of flight violates the private pilot compensation rule, then a private pilot accepting a paycheck from their employer is violating the same.
 
Wow. I didn't call the FAA, and wasn't planning to. I asked a question because I wanted to learn (and stated so). Isn't part of the good people do on here, teaching others what they know???
It sounds like Kimberly was getting a little frustrated with the continued ways people were trying to find some way in which it could be interpreted as a rule violation. Don't take it personally.

It does seem like it's a popular sport to try to find some way you can get in trouble for anything, any time, anywhere. Seems like every pursuit has its share of "barracks lawyers".
 
Wow. I didn't call the FAA, and wasn't planning to. I asked a question because I wanted to learn (and stated so). Isn't part of the good people do on here, teaching others what they know???
Have your questions been answered now or do you still have doubts?
 
Another thing - if you put MONEY on my account at my flight school, I still buy sectionals, TACs, and AFDs when they expire. Technically, since this wasn't a huge lump of money, you could say I spent the entire amount on SureCheck checklists, POHs, and charts. Then I'm not getting paid for flight at all. Does the FAA say a friend can't buy me a sectional????

Don't worry about it, Kim. But I do not think we should discount the question. It is a valid question for some friendly discussion. Just Kim, don't take it personally or as an invalidation of the gift.
 
Have your questions been answered now or do you still have doubts?

Well, picking a nit, if she has pax and uses the free time, she is paying less than her pro rata share.

(c) A private pilot may not pay less than the pro rata share of the operating expenses of a flight with passengers, provided the expenses involve only fuel, oil, airport expenditures, or rental fees.

edit: IF the pax pay anything. If no-one pays anything then the pro rata share is zip zero zilch. :D
 
Well, picking a nit, if she has pax and uses the free time, she is paying less than her pro rata share.
How it that? The money in her account is hers now. It was a gift.

An individual can give another individual up to $13,000/year with no tax consequences and no need to report it. It doesn't matter what account they deposit it into or what that money is used for.
 
Well, picking a nit, if she has pax and uses the free time, she is paying less than her pro rata share.

(c) A private pilot may not pay less than the pro rata share of the operating expenses of a flight with passengers, provided the expenses involve only fuel, oil, airport expenditures, or rental fees.

edit: IF the pax pay anything. If no-one pays anything then the pro rata share is zip zero zilch. :D


Nope, you're missing the link between a previous flight and the money on account. If she uses the money deposited on account as her prorata share, it's all good.
 
A long time ago when I worked at a flight school I owed someone some money for a bar tab. I didn't have any cash on me, so I used my card and just put money on their flying account.
 
Nope, you're missing the link between a previous flight and the money on account.

That is a contrivance. Let us say that all the money on the pilot's account was gifted. Now the pilot takes a pax somewhere they both have the same interest in visiting and the pax pays half the rental rate as a pro rata share. But the pilot did not pay a dime. The pilot paid less than the pro rata share.
 
Well this thread is going just swimmingly...yes, there are some truly fantastic people left in this world. Pay it forward, people.
 
That is a contrivance. Let us say that all the money on the pilot's account was gifted. Now the pilot takes a pax somewhere they both have the same interest in visiting and the pax pays half the rental rate as a pro rata share. But the pilot did not pay a dime. The pilot paid less than the pro rata share.


If the PAX only paid half, who paid the other half? The contrivance is that the gifted money on account doesn't belong to the pilot; that is incorrect.
 
Boy, some of you need to find something to do with your time!
 
That is a contrivance. Let us say that all the money on the pilot's account was gifted. Now the pilot takes a pax somewhere they both have the same interest in visiting and the pax pays half the rental rate as a pro rata share. But the pilot did not pay a dime. The pilot paid less than the pro rata share.
No, because once money is gifted it becomes the recipient's money.
 
Well this thread is going just swimmingly...yes, there are some truly fantastic people left in this world. Pay it forward, people.

Oh, please. We are bad because the OP inspired a question by another poster and some friendly discussion ensues? I think the OP should enjoy her gift. I am sure most here feel the same.
 
What about my sectional question? I will not disclose the amount gifted, but it is not "hundreds of dollars". A nice laminated checklist (I need to buy one for each of the planes I fly since last time it was missing and the owner couldn't give me one).....

$20 (roughly) 150 checklist
$20 (roughly) 172 checklist
TAC ($8?)
AFD ($5?)
Sectional ($15?)

That's almost 70 bucks. AFD several times per year, throw in some TACs, Sectionals, and boom - money spent.

If I can prove I used the money for PAPER ITEMS does that change things?
 
What about my sectional question? I will not disclose the amount gifted, but it is not "hundreds of dollars". A nice laminated checklist (I need to buy one for each of the planes I fly since last time it was missing and the owner couldn't give me one).....

$20 (roughly) 150 checklist
$20 (roughly) 172 checklist
TAC ($8?)
AFD ($5?)
Sectional ($15?)

That's almost 70 bucks. AFD several times per year, throw in some TACs, Sectionals, and boom - money spent.

If I can prove I used the money for PAPER ITEMS does that change things?

Don't sweat it, Kimberly. Enjoy your gift. It was a gift. It was not compensation. There is nothing for you to worry about.
 
What about my sectional question? I will not disclose the amount gifted, but it is not "hundreds of dollars". A nice laminated checklist (I need to buy one for each of the planes I fly since last time it was missing and the owner couldn't give me one).....

$20 (roughly) 150 checklist
$20 (roughly) 172 checklist
TAC ($8?)
AFD ($5?)
Sectional ($15?)

That's almost 70 bucks. AFD several times per year, throw in some TACs, Sectionals, and boom - money spent.

If I can prove I used the money for PAPER ITEMS does that change things?
Kimberly, I wouldn't worry about this at all. Go spend it on flying. Have a great time!

Years ago I had someone gift me some flight time. My stepfather and his friend were arguing about who should pay the bill at a restaurant. My stepfather ended up paying but his friend turned around and handed me the money he had been pushing at my stepfather. He told me to go out and use it for flying. I did. I don't remember the exact dollar amount but I think it was enough for an hour or two. :)
 
Kimberly, I wouldn't worry about this at all. Go spend it on flying. Have a great time!

Years ago I had someone gift me some flight time. My stepfather and his friend were arguing about who should pay the bill at a restaurant. My stepfather ended up paying but his friend turned around and handed me the money he had been pushing at my stepfather. He told me to go out and use it for flying. I did. I don't remember the exact dollar amount but I think it was enough for an hour or two. :)


I used to fly a couple neighbors in Long Beach to Vegas reasonably frequently as they were professional gamblers. They never paid me once, but they both would give a fair bit of money to gamble on while I was there.;)
 
Ok. Show me in the regs how they do it.

61.113 Private pilot privileges and limitations: Pilot in command.

(a) Except as provided in paragraphs (b) through (h) of this section, no person who holds a private pilot certificate may act as pilot in command of an aircraft that is carrying passengers or property for compensation or hire; nor may that person, for compensation or hire, act as pilot in command of an aircraft.
(c) A private pilot may not pay less than the pro rata share of the operating expenses of a flight with passengers, provided the expenses involve only fuel, oil, airport expenditures, or rental fees.

Have your questions been answered now or do you still have doubts?
Yes, I still have doubt. I am wondering if there is any way that the FAA would consider using money deposited into a flying account to be a violation of (c) above, or the fact that the FAA considers flight time to be compensation if the pilot doesn't pay for it (can't find it in part 61... yet...). But I no longer care because it seems that my simple question, intended to increase my knowledge, has been blown out of proportion. Never mind.

<edited to add the section about flight time being compensation>
 
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Wow. I didn't call the FAA, and wasn't planning to. I asked a question because I wanted to learn (and stated so). Isn't part of the good people do on here, teaching others what they know???

Yes but I had not yet had my coffee and was out late last night at a pilot meeting and then in the Pilatus man cave area. Long night. I did not get much sleep. Grumpy.

I think that, in the future, if I ever need to buy a pilot a gift . . . and I know what school they rent from / what FBO they use to buy fuel - I would not hesitate to buy them a gift certificate to that business.
 
(c) A private pilot may not pay less than the pro rata share of the operating expenses of a flight with passengers, provided the expenses involve only fuel, oil, airport expenditures, or rental fees.


Yes, I still have doubt. I am wondering if there is any way that the FAA would consider using money deposited into a flying account to be a violation of (c) above. But I no longer care because it seems that my simple question, intended to increase my knowledge, has been blown out of proportion. Never mind.

I plan to have some flights with ZERO passengers. Again, I have never met this person. I need to practice for the upcoming flour bombing (setting my altimeter to zero, going down to 150 feet over the runway, keeping my heading and speed and altitude constant). If I spend all the money in my plane, alone, your concerns about (c) go away.
 
So it was you.

Hah! I can barely afford to put gas in my car.

Oh, please. We are bad because the OP inspired a question by another poster and some friendly discussion ensues? I think the OP should enjoy her gift. I am sure most here feel the same.

Not disagreeing at all, and referencing the bold, I am one of those people.
 
(c) A private pilot may not pay less than the pro rata share of the operating expenses of a flight with passengers, provided the expenses involve only fuel, oil, airport expenditures, or rental fees.


Yes, I still have doubt. I am wondering if there is any way that the FAA would consider using money deposited into a flying account to be a violation of (c) above. But I no longer care because it seems that my simple question, intended to increase my knowledge, has been blown out of proportion. Never mind.
I think you are not understanding the concept that it is not the donor's money any more nor will the donor receive any benefit from the flight that Kimberly takes, with or without passengers.
 
I think you are not understanding the concept that it is not the donor's money any more nor will the donor receive any benefit from the flight that Kimberly takes, with or without passengers.

It could even be compensation for something unrelated to flying. Like I paint the FBO and they credit me four hours flight time, or whatever. That would be OK. Or I paint your house and you pay me in flight time. This is not the sort of thing the reg is aimed at.
 
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