Thinking About Hanging Up My Spurs

DaleB said:
Why limit your options?
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I’ve seen those options used…they’re not good.

(Yes, I’m sure your statement was in jest…but I’ve seen way too many people with a hole in their lives the shape of something that was filled with alcohol or drugs.)
 
OP, I had this exact conversation today with my S.O. My plane-owing days are numbered, for the same reasons as yours. I'm online right now, looking at 5th wheels (that will be taking the place of my aviation dollars). I'm thinking I'll sell in the spring. Its weird because I've flown for almost 30 years, but only the last couple of years, I just notice how expensive and troublesome it has become.
 
When it comes to partners, it would be awfully hard to find someone I'd feel comfortable with in the Skywagon. I'd hate to bring on a partner or two just so we can split the fixed costs while it's getting ground loop damage fixed!

OTOH, a partner in a Bonanza, Cherokee, 172, 182, even a Cirrus with multiple partners, is a viable option.
 
Totally get what you're going through. I've gone through it somewhat already at 40. Thing for me was, I realized the "economics" were merely a proxy for what was really bugging me, which I'll digress on for brevity. But I found an alternative that is gonna keep me flying, and I'm grateful for that.

The only item I disagree on your assessment with, is gas prices. I think you're projecting your frustration a bit much on that specific line item; unleaded 100 octane is not going to settle at $10/gal in 2022 dollars, when it becomes the only option for piston engines. The rest of your cost assessments however, are accurate from where I sit, for the morass that is fac-built (oops, I said I would digress on that, can't help myself lol).

Good luck moving forward. Cheers.
 
OneCharlieTango said:
....

Talk me off this cliff!
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I sold my airplane a number of years ago... multiple reasons for it, some are deeply personal, some not. Reasons included expense (I was approaching retirement age and needed to shed expenses), cost avoidance (I wasn't going to put that AD$-B crap and the requisite GPS in my airplane) and the continued TSA BS at my home airport

I love flying. Just the sheer joy of being in the air. It was always magical. And I also enjoyed working on my own airplane. I don't regret owning the airplane and I don't really regret selling it.

Some people use the airplane for transportation rather than committing flight. Some people make up reasons to go somewhere, anywhere. And some people don't even bother pretending the destination has any importance - it's all about the flight. Which group do you belong in?
 
MauleSkinner said:
I’ve seen those options used…they’re not good.

(Yes, I’m sure your statement was in jest…but I’ve seen way too many people with a hole in their lives the shape of something that was filled with alcohol or drugs.)
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Indeed it was. I want to retire because I've got too many things I want to do other than this job. I've seen a few people retire just because they hit "retirement age", and have no plan for how to live out the next 20-30 years. It's not, in my humble opinion, a good strategy.

That said, the person trying hardest to fill my life with drugs is my doctor.
 
I’m closing in on becoming an octogenarian,looking forward to it. I downsized to a 150 ,cheaper fuel ,cheaper insurance and still fun. Didn’t want to go the partnership or club route. When is it time to hang it up ,is a personal decision,with many factors. One plan doesn’t fit all.
 
I'm 56 and it pains me to think of stopping at 60!...but seems like the biggest thing is this..... if it 'aint fun no more' to you...then it just 'aint fun'. Life's too short to do thing you don't enjoy...(unless you have to of course, like work...)

that said...the first thing as I was reading that came to mind was like many others.... why not consider something simple and cheap?

The most fun I had in all the flying that I did was trying to get my tailwheel sign off in an old Aeronca Champ...no electrical system even in that thing. It just felt better low and slow...and while it wasn't much of a traveler it was a good time...
but that only makes sense if you still have a flying itch.

I came to a similar conclusion as you, although very different, in my mid 30's I suppose...back about 2003...started my longest rusty pilot period. I'd always been a renter and decided that it was just getting far too expensive to do this. The only way it made sense was for me to have my own plane.... I stopped flying and was going to make it happened.... but then life events got in the way. Teh itch faded over time but never went away for me.

Now I'm trying to figure out how I can retire soon and have some time to fly again! Daydreaming about maybe buying a kit RV-14 or something as a project to get a somewhat affordable plane that can really travel.
 
Half Fast said:
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Reminds me of the funeral story about the casket of the deceased coming into the burial grounds in a boat attached to the rear of a redneck truck. "He sure must like fishing" I remarked the guy next to me. He said, "he sure does, and as soon as he gets his wire out of the boat he's going again!"
 
I had a friend in high school whose father was a mortician. She said she was traumatized in grade school every time the family car was in the shop, and her Dad took her to school in the hearse.
 
GaryM said:
I had a friend in high school whose father was a mortician. She said she was traumatized in grade school every time the family car was in the shop, and her Dad took her to school in the hearse.
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Prolly was dead silence in the car ...
 
I had a high school buddy that drove a hearse. He drove it to Woodstock to nail the era. My dad forbid him from parking in our driveway. I thought that was silly then; now not so much!
 
After owning you'll likely not enjoy a club. My $0.02

What about a nice LSA and an RV (camping RV)? Took around for breakfast or early morning flight in the Cub and go golfing, hunting, RVing the other 23 hrs each day.

Live the dream brother!!
 
OneCharlieTango said:
These threads come up from time to time — the opposite of the “what plane should I buy?” threads. I’m thinking about giving up aviation, a lifestyle I’ve lived for most of 30 years.

I just turned 60 and, just like that, I realized that I’m running the bell lap, playing the fourth quarter, acting the third act, or whatever metaphor speaks to you. The question is, does aviation add to or subtract from my life in the next decade or so?

Wife prefers flying if it gets us there quicker. I’ll fly as long as I can, while feeling safe doing so. She also likes to invite her friends. While I also like flying EAA young eagles. I’ll continue until I cannot. And I’m pretty sure I will be able to make that decision.
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To each his own.

But I don't see how RVing replacing flying. Traffic. Having to do household chores. And getting worse gas mileage than my plane.

If I were ground bound and wanted to travel, I would get a nice performance cross over and drive and stay in hotels.
 
Bob Noel said:
Some people use the airplane for transportation rather than committing flight. Some people make up reasons to go somewhere, anywhere. And some people don't even bother pretending the destination has any importance - it's all about the flight. Which group do you belong in?
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Group Two, definitely. I got bored pretty quickly when I had a J-3. Then I joined a club and it reminded me of a bad HOA — I got a phone call from the maintenance officer when someone complained that I hadn’t adequately wiped down the leading edges.
 
If you can do a single seat, folding wing, sport plane that can fit in a trailer behind your RV motor home then consider:

 
OneCharlieTango said:
Group Two, definitely. I got bored pretty quickly when I had a J-3. Then I joined a club and it reminded me of a bad HOA — I got a phone call from the maintenance officer when someone complained that I hadn’t adequately wiped down the leading edges.
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Yup yup. I know that's a big reason why partnerships don't work for me. Always the accusation of lack of pride in ownership, aspersion which i don't even recognize as real as a matter of semantics in the first place. As such, I'm best suited for lonewolfing it. Similar reason why I also bias towards single pilot pro flying. My circus my monkey type of thing lol.
#sportofkings
 
It's been about 2 years and 2 months since I sold the MU-2 and shut down Cloud Nine. In the time since, I've only flown in a GA aircraft a couple of times.

I really don't miss owning an airplane or flying. The lack of stress that goes with aircraft ownership is a nice thing, not to mention the monetary aspects.

One thing that I did struggle with some for a while is what that does to me community wise. A few friends have more or less dropped out of my life since the only real thing we talked about was airplanes/airplane ownership.

For me personally getting to focus on other things has been nice, although I haven't necessarily established myself in those communities yet, but that takes time.
 
I belong to a large non-equity club, and while it would be more fun to not have to worry about scheduling issues and club rules, it's nice not having to manage the maintenance. I have taken a lot of memorable trips over the past thirty years, and plan to continue as long as I am able.
 
Ted said:
It's been about 2 years and 2 months since I sold the MU-2 and shut down Cloud Nine. In the time since, I've only flown in a GA aircraft a couple of times.

I really don't miss owning an airplane or flying. The lack of stress that goes with aircraft ownership is a nice thing, not to mention the monetary aspects.

One thing that I did struggle with some for a while is what that does to me community wise. A few friends have more or less dropped out of my life since the only real thing we talked about was airplanes/airplane ownership.

For me personally getting to focus on other things has been nice, although I haven't necessarily established myself in those communities yet, but that takes time.
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Assuming that you're going racing next year, you'll have a new community, and an activity that will become all consuming if you let it.
 
FormerHangie said:
Assuming that you're going racing next year, you'll have a new community, and an activity that will become all consuming if you let it.
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+1

You can race casually “just for fun,” but winning involves a serious commitment of time and money.
 
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I went through a similar scenario at around 60. Does it really make sense to own a plane?

I'm 75 now and just got back from two round trips from Vermont to North Carolina, basically just to move some family members around in the C206 I've had for 38 years. I hadn't flown it much during COVID but have put in a few hundred hours in the Pawnee towing gliders this year, with around 500 tows since May. It's all still very enjoyable to me to fly just for the sake of flying. My Master Plan has me selling the C206 when insurance/maintenance/fuel make it ridiculous to own, but I've got a J3 that's cheap to own and will probably last me the rest of my lifetime. Insurance/maintenance/fuel are still all very reasonable in the Cub, and the pleasure of flying it never seems to get old.
 
FormerHangie said:
Assuming that you're going racing next year, you'll have a new community, and an activity that will become all consuming if you let it.
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Half Fast said:
+1

You can race casually “just for fun,” but winning involves a serious commitment of time and money.
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I'm not sure I'm at the point of actually attempting to win (and putting forth that commitment) just yet, vs getting my feet wet. I don't want to hijack this thread too much, but I am thinking that next year's goal is getting selected for the GS Trophy US team. And I've got some work to do to get to where I think I have a shot at that, since I believe the normal selection ends up being something like the top 3 riders nationwide who compete.
 
Ted said:
I'm not sure I'm at the point of actually attempting to win (and putting forth that commitment) just yet, vs getting my feet wet. I don't want to hijack this thread too much, but I am thinking that next year's goal is getting selected for the GS Trophy US team. And I've got some work to do to get to where I think I have a shot at that, since I believe the normal selection ends up being something like the top 3 riders nationwide who compete.
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Time for another "thinking about" thread...
 
FormerHangie said:
Time for another "thinking about" thread...
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Nah. Racing is covered in "Ted Race Team: Because Racecar" and GS Trophy is covered in "Thinking about a dual sport/adventure Motorcycle" :)
 
Country Flier said:
OP, I had this exact conversation today with my S.O. My plane-owing days are numbered, for the same reasons as yours. I'm online right now, looking at 5th wheels (that will be taking the place of my aviation dollars). I'm thinking I'll sell in the spring. It’s weird because I've flown for almost 30 years, but only the last couple of years, I just notice how expensive and troublesome it has become.
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Wait until you own that fifth wheel if you think airplanes are expensive and troublesome. The manufacturers of RVs are in a race to the bottom to see who can cut the most corners. I haven’t met one person who bought an RV or trailer new or used that hasn’t spent more time fixing it or getting it fixed than actually using it. Even buying new you are going to have problems and it’s going to be months waiting for parts and warrantee work to be done.
 
kmacht said:
Wait until you own that fifth wheel if you think airplanes are expensive and troublesome. The manufacturers of RVs are in a race to the bottom to see who can cut the most corners. I haven’t met one person who bought an RV or trailer new or used that hasn’t spent more time fixing it or getting it fixed than actually using it. Even buying new you are going to have problems and it’s going to be months waiting for parts and warrantee work to be done.
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I've owned a fifth wheel, a motorhome, and a couple of travel trailers. You're out of your mind if you think airplanes are less troublesome or expensive...airplanes are more expensive by a yearly factor of x50, if not more.
 
Yeah all that but honest question...............Do you have fun when you fly??
 
SoonerAviator said:
Ah, so the fact that it didn't work for you must mean it's not ever a viable solution. Got it.
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Whereas you've done it over and over again with ease. Got it.

GaryM said:
I 'found a club' 17 years ago. It continues to work just fine.
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Yeah, I could join one of the local clubs, might get in past their waiting list before I die. Thing is I've spent most of the last 20 some years flying nice airplanes that became or stayed that way through my efforts. Club airplanes are as nice as the worst member. That's a huge step down, and the only way you really save any significant money is to not fly as much, a really bad idea.
 
There’s only one club near me. Their waiting list is 15 names deep. Not something to count on.

A younger, less lazy version of me would start a club. But he’s no longer with us.
 
steingar said:
Whereas you've done it over and over again with ease. Got it.



Yeah, I could join one of the local clubs, might get in past their waiting list before I die. Thing is I've spent most of the last 20 some years flying nice airplanes that became or stayed that way through my efforts. Club airplanes are as nice as the worst member. That's a huge step down, and the only way you really save any significant money is to not fly as much, a really bad idea.
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There are 2 flying clubs near me, both consistently have openings. Couple grand buy-in, the rest is low dry rates. One of them has 4 or 5 aircraft to choose from, and has been around for many decades. The other has 3 aircraft but is more of a equity-based scenario so the buy-in is a bit steeper. No problems, even in fly over country.
 
OneCharlieTango said:
Group Two, definitely. I got bored pretty quickly when I had a J-3. Then I joined a club and it reminded me of a bad HOA — I got a phone call from the maintenance officer when someone complained that I hadn’t adequately wiped down the leading edges.
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The culture of a flying cub is damn near as important as the planes they have. I dropped one that had really nice planes but senior members routinely had a "all animals are created equal but some are more equal than others" attitude. The one I'm in now is great and I just joined one at our future home in NH that seems to be an equally welcoming club. Looking forward to trading $100 crab cake runs for $100 lobster roll runs.
 
I'm 70 and am on my 4th plane now. The first 3 were in partnerships and I enjoyed both the planes and the partners. All started amicably and stayed that way. A big part of a successful partnership is to clearly define the rules of the road before it is formed and a plane is bought. My current plane is a Maule MX7-180C. I own this one all by my lonesome because I couldn't find partners I could get along with that had adequate taildragger experience to share the plane with. Mine is just 180 Hp, and I run it at low power settings (21" manifold pressure & 2350 RPM). It only burns 7.5 gallons/hour at that setting and I'm still getting 105 knots (120 Mph) out of the plane. Still, the expense is starting to wear on me and the great utility of the Maule isn't being used much any more. I have a useful load of 1015 pounds, but most of my flights are solo. I still go airplane camping in the back country, but my wife won't sleep on the ground anymore. I'm seriously considering selling this and buying something a bit cheaper to own and operate. Maybe even an LSA motorglider. That would let me get my aviation jollies at a lower cost and would align the plane's capability closer to the kinds of missions I fly these days. So I think the advice given to find partners, a club, or downsize to a cheaper plane are all good suggestions. Which option is best for you will depend on the market you are in and what your real goals are. If you are more interested in the RV, hunting + fishing + European vacations, then sell your Skywagon and pursue those things. These are all very first world problems, so just make a decision and pursue it. There is no seriously bad outcome here.
 
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