Martha Lunken has privileges revoked

In one sense of the word...

but, no, it’s not. There are actually 2 parallel bridges now, so even if one got hit, the other could carry the load both ways as it did when they were reconstructing it. Iirc, it’s a girder bridge.

I went over it the other day.
Ask Chester Twp or Clinton-Warren Joint Fire Districts how many bodies they scraped off 71 when that bridge was single-span during the rebuild due to the traffic backups that construction caused. I can't count how many times traffic was detouring through here due to those wrecks. We don't need entitled Martha or anyone else causing that again.
 
Around here if you look close a lot of bridges have a bunch of fishing line hanging off of them. I wouldn’t fly under one.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
If someone fishing the Little Miami got their line stuck on that bridge that's... Something lol.

That said, almost the entire Little Miami valley from way up by I19 until you get to the concrete jungle closer to Cincinnati is some type of natural protected land whether county parks like by I19, state protected land near the Morrow bridge / Ft Ancient, etc.

I'd love for ODNR to find something to hit her with too.
 
I enjoy reading Martha’s stuff, but anyone who reads her will know she has spent many years publicly insulting the FAA including her local FSDO. She tells many tales of violating regs, breaking rules, etc. She’s crashed planes and landed on a highway after running out of fuel.

It’s no surprise the FAA cut her no slack. She long ago torched any good will that might have helped her.

Martha has <seemingly> been giving the FAA the finger for years. If you're gonna do that, you've gotta keep your nose clean. Otherwise, the bureaucracy is going to crush you when it gets the chance.
 
Martha has <seemingly> been giving the FAA the finger for years. If you're gonna do that, you've gotta keep your nose clean. Otherwise, the bureaucracy is going to crush you when it gets the chance.


How would like to be the DPE for her checkride? :)
 
This whole thing reminds me of my wife. She say's she looks forward to getting old so she can do things like smack people who pizz her off upside the head with her purse or cane or whatever and everybody just thinks it's cute. Maybe Martha kinda did that on steroids. FAA unfortunately has no sense of cuteness. I ain't letting my wife see this lest she does something really stupid someday.
 
If someone fishing the Little Miami got their line stuck on that bridge that's... Something lol.

That said, almost the entire Little Miami valley from way up by I19 until you get to the concrete jungle closer to Cincinnati is some type of natural protected land whether county parks like by I19, state protected land near the Morrow bridge / Ft Ancient, etc.

I'd love for ODNR to find something to hit her with too.
I was always fishing from the bridge when I lost line that ended up hanging from the bridge. Although from what’s been said here I doubt it’s possible to fish from that bridge.
 
Martha Lunken knew better. After pulling a stunt like that I'd start worrying about her cognitive processes. She'll have to go pass her private again. Probably a good thing, it'll keep her out of trouble.
I don’t think this is anything new. Read some of her old columns - if they are true, this would be in-character.

more importantly (to me, anyway) - when is ODOT ever going to finish the work on I71 near Grove City?!?
 
I was always fishing from the bridge when I lost line that ended up hanging from the bridge. Although from what’s been said here I doubt it’s possible to fish from that bridge.
I think the camera that caught Martha is also a camera monitored for pedestrians on that bridge. If a pedestrian is spotted it seems a sheriff deputy is immediately dispatched for a jumper, since it's the highest bridge in the state, and pedestrians don't work on interstates.
 
Ask Chester Twp or Clinton-Warren Joint Fire Districts how many bodies they scraped off 71 when that bridge was single-span during the rebuild due to the traffic backups that construction caused. I can't count how many times traffic was detouring through here due to those wrecks. We don't need entitled Martha or anyone else causing that again.
Probably less than the number of bodies that have been scraped off of I495 and I66 near DC as the construction to build private toll lanes has progressed.

I wouldn’t like to see either of those bridges closed - I have driven them countless times and continue to - I’m just saying that closing one span would not close I71 totally.

That said, the bridge that really needs to be fixed is the Brent Spence, but I digress.
 
It's been a long time so I don't remember whether the appeal goes in to the "regular" courts or into the court of appeals - if it's the court of appeals,
The petition can be made to either district court or the court of appeals. Either way, it's not a de novo hearing and there's no option for jury. It's handled as a further appeal and unfortunately the federal law stacks it against you as they defer to the FAA itself to interpret the regulations they wrote.
 
Is this the blurry photo that was making the rounds as a wanted poster last year? If so, how'd they ID her? Did she turn herself in?
 
Is this the blurry photo that was making the rounds as a wanted poster last year? If so, how'd they ID her? Did she turn herself in?

I think that was in PA, if it's the same picture I'm thinking of.
 
1) Hitting this bridge with a 182 ain't gonna do **** - to the bridge (Image: Wikipedia)
Jeremiahmorrowbridge.jpg


2) 239 feet above the river and 440 foot main span - more than enough room for a 747.
which 3) makes flying under it in a 182 pretty pointless.
 
It sounds like she's no saint, from catching up with the what I've missed. That said, I still stand by the premise that this suspension business is without due process and simultaneously relies solely on the honor system.
 
It may be Kentucky’s property but it’s everyone’s problem.

No, don't do it. I gotta. No don't. But it's out there, I can't let it go. Dude, I'm tellin ya, don't do it. Oh, ok, you win, why start in on locking up a good thread.
 
It sounds like she's no saint, from catching up with the what I've missed. That said, I still stand by the premise that this suspension business is without due process and simultaneously relies solely on the honor system.

What do you consider "due process" as it relates to administrative law?
 
I'm sorry, but... again...

Was it a....

Suspension bridge???? C'mon right?
 
Not to defend the Feds, but, was this at an airshow with waivered airspace? If not, the Nanchang pilot goofed. During an airshow in waivered airspace, low passes are fine. At a non-waivered fly-in? Then a low pass could be seen by the Feds as a potential “careless and reckless” operation.

Well, it certainly violates the "minimum safe altitude" rule if anybody was within 500' of the runway. Then the feds always throw in "careless or reckless" like the proverbial cherry on top.

...make more laws are rely on people to be law-abiding... those that aren't law abiding will ignore them anyway.

I tend to be mostly law-abiding, except when the law is stupid.

Martha's been a rebel for a long time, it's what makes her entertaining. It's also no doubt why the FAA didn't cut her any slack. Knowing her, she probably argued with the investigators instead of being contrite.
 
I don't care how old she is, just a case of someone who thinks she's an entitled princess getting caught exercising her self entitlement. For once, "affluenza" didn't come into play, which I think speaks for how many people she has crossed in this region over time.

I bet if her ex's name was anything but Lunken she would've dropped it shortly after the divorce, but instead it helps with her self entitlement.
I visited Lunken Field, decades ago, and earned her ire for eating the last donut. I didn’t know...
 
What do you consider "due process" as it relates to administrative law?
I think "administrative law' is a bad thing, especially since the interests of the judge are more likely to side with the government that gives said judge a paycheck and contrary to the principles of the founding of our country. Is it OK to have that opinion?

To quote the Declaration of Independance:
He has obstructed the Administration of Justice, by refusing his Assent to Laws for establishing Judiciary powers.

He has made Judges dependent on his Will alone, for the tenure of their offices, and the amount and payment of their salaries.

He has erected a multitude of New Offices, and sent hither swarms of Officers to harrass our people, and eat out their substance.

For depriving us in many cases, of the benefits of Trial by Jury:

For transporting us beyond Seas to be tried for pretended offences
Which is part of the whole reason things that affect a persons' livelihood should have a shot at a jury trial with their peers making a decision, although I'd say even today's events are showing that that is very much in jeopardy as well.
 
I tend to be mostly law-abiding, except when the law is stupid.

I try to be always regulation and law abiding when it comes to the FAA. It’s just a hobby for me. And there are enough other really seriously bad laws to get torqued about.

Doesn’t stop me from criticizing them though ...
 
I think "administrative law' is a bad thing, especially since the interests of the judge are more likely to side with the government that gives said judge a paycheck and contrary to the principles of the founding of our country. Is it OK to have that opinion?

Have you actually read any NTSB Administrative Judge rulings? I've seen plenty of instances where they sure didn't show any favoritism towards the FAA.

And BTW, the NTSB is not part of the FAA, not even in the same department.


Which is part of the whole reason things that affect a persons' livelihood should have a shot at a jury trial with their peers making a decision, although I'd say even today's events are showing that that is very much in jeopardy as well.

So instead of having regulations (14 CFR) that are derived from 49 USC (law), would you propose to do away with the regulations all together and write new laws to cover all the items in regulation?

Just think what that would be like. :eek:
 
Which is part of the whole reason things that affect a persons' livelihood should have a shot at a jury trial with their peers making a decision, although I'd say even today's events are showing that that is very much in jeopardy as well.
Remember that "your peers" doesn't mean other pilots. It means members of the general public who get selected for jury duty. Is that what you really want? How do you think flying under bridges looks to Joe and Jane Average?
 
Have you actually read any NTSB Administrative Judge rulings? I've seen plenty of instances where they sure didn't show any favoritism towards the FAA.

And BTW, the NTSB is not part of the FAA, not even in the same department.
I'm sure they get some right. That doesn't change the problematic nature of the system's structure, which is uncomfortably similar to the conditions in 1776, which I note you didn't respond to.
So instead of having regulations (14 CFR) that are derived from 49 USC (law), would you propose to do away with the regulations all together and write new laws to cover all the items in regulation?

Just think what that would be like. :eek:
Probably not as bad as you might think it would be. I think the voluntary compliance is because a majority of the rules are good. Like the cloud clearance stuff, for instance. The FAA can't police everyone staying exactly 500' horizontally, or whatever, but we also have a high percentage of compliance (although there was that guy flying NORDO in the clouds that one time that gave my crew a scare...). Again, as it is, most of the system is an honor system as it currently exists, anyway, and plenty of us are more trustworthy than not.
 
So instead of having regulations (14 CFR) that are derived from 49 USC (law), would you propose to do away with the regulations all together and write new laws to cover all the items in regulation?

:

IMO, not necessary at all. Provide new laws that deal with actual crimes with actual victims for the few cases they do not already exist.

Let common law and perhaps somewhat stricter enforcement of fraud and liability civil actions take care of the rest.

In the instant case, who owned the plane and what would their insurer think of it? There are ways these things will be dealt with without the FAA trying to regulate everything.
 
Remember that "your peers" doesn't mean other pilots. It means members of the general public who get selected for jury duty. Is that what you really want? How do you think flying under bridges looks to Joe and Jane Average?
In that case, I actually think that they'd be fine to bust her... but she and her lawyers should have a chance to explain it in hopes they'd sympathize. I'm not actually in favor of her action, but find the punishment confusing. Also, back in the day, peers would likely not look like our juries today... especially if you look up the definitions back then, like in the Websters 1828 Dictionary.
 
I'm sure they get some right. That doesn't change the problematic nature of the system's structure, which is uncomfortably similar to the conditions in 1776, which I note you didn't respond to.

I didn’t respond because I don’t see the correlation you’re attempting to twist it into. Let’s stick to the subject at hand.


Probably not as bad as you might think it would be. I think the voluntary compliance is because a majority of the rules are good. Like the cloud clearance stuff, for instance. The FAA can't police everyone staying exactly 500' horizontally, or whatever, but we also have a high percentage of compliance (although there was that guy flying NORDO in the clouds that one time that gave my crew a scare...). Again, as it is, most of the system is an honor system as it currently exists, anyway, and plenty of us are more trustworthy than not.

So you would be ok with the FBI or US Marshall’s and federal prosecutors handling violations rather than Aviation Safety Inspectors?

Okey Dokey! ;)
 
So you would be ok with the FBI or US Marshall’s and federal prosecutors handling violations rather than Aviation Safety Inspectors?

Okey Dokey! ;)
Violations that GENIUNELY endanger the community, sure. Stupid stuff like busting the guy in the Nanchang for having smoke on a low pass over the runway, when a go-around would have been perfectly legal probably don't deserve it just like a guy doesn't deserve to die over a $20 bill. The force used should be corollary to the actual harm.
 
In that case, I actually think that they'd be fine to bust her... but she and her lawyers should have a chance to explain it in hopes they'd sympathize. I'm not actually in favor of her action, but find the punishment confusing. Also, back in the day, peers would likely not look like our juries today... especially if you look up the definitions back then, like in the Websters 1828 Dictionary.
But this isn't 1828. She wouldn't have been flying under bridges in 1828. :D

Besides, I'm sure she had the chance to tell her side. The story above seems incomplete. She couldn't have gone from letter of investigation to revocation without having the opportunity to make her case, unless she blew off all notices asking her to respond.
 
I think "administrative law' is a bad thing,
FWIW: the one thing you gloss over is being a pilot and flying is a privelage and not a personal right. Just as the thread title states. Different set of rules which you accept by exercising that private. And just as most government actions are dealt with under administrative law, to bring all federal regulatory challenges up to the same levels as what you propose what would that accomplish? Should a person who gets a parking ticket be given the immediate access to a jury trial? Regardless, as stated above, the administrative law process has a path to appeal in the courts which is used on a regular basis. But out of curiosity, how many federal administrative law processes have you personally been involved in?
 
In that case, I actually think that they'd be fine to bust her... but she and her lawyers should have a chance to explain it in hopes they'd sympathize. I'm not actually in favor of her action, but find the punishment confusing. Also, back in the day, peers would likely not look like our juries today... especially if you look up the definitions back then, like in the Websters 1828 Dictionary.

What’s confusing about the outcome?

I think you are relying way too much on the article. Like I said earlier, much more happened than what was written that led up to the revocation.

Has she appealed the revocation to the NTSB?
 
Back
Top