yeah Bo-yyyyyyyeeeeee

eman1200 said:
I'm not sure I agree, grum. u can get urself a nice, well equipped E for $60k. I think u get bonanza scrap metal for $60k, maybe with a bonanza logo thrown in as a bonus.
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Cirrus seems to have displaced Bonanzas as the lusted after high performance single. Prices for used Bonanzas are definitely measurably lower than they were a decade ago. So are Mooney prices though. $60k will put you in the range of a lot of older Bonanzas now. Like any used airplane search some effort required to filter out the overpriced junk. My hangar partner stopped flying (age) and put his beautiful V-tail up for sale last year. Spectacular Imron paint job on it, very nice leather interior, numerous mods including d'Shannon speed slope windshield & bigger engine w/ 3-blade. Did not have a moving map IFR GPS in it. Couldn't even get $55k for it.
 
What motor does it have?

The Bo is a great and predictable airframe. I fly a V-Tail and what a great x-country bird. There are some specific things to check on a prebuy.

Avionics is also a consideration.

A well equipped Bo is not cheap. G500, tip tanks, GTN gps, leather, and good AP - no 90k airplane. Ruddervator corrosion is the number one item on all v-tails.

Cirrus a great plane too but note chute life as a repack is not cheap.
 
 
eman1200 said:
WTF!!!!!!! 195x is out. what do I look like, a freakin bonanza museum?!? you're really just proving my point, mid '70's mooney money = mid freakin 50's bonanza money. I'm not looking for anything 195x.
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Now I see why you haven't found an airplane lol. Age would be the very last metric I would judge my purchase by when it comes to an airplane. Especially something as common as a Bonanza. TT, Tsmoh, condition, equipment, upgrades would all come before the year of manufacture.
 
nah, it's pretty simple. I like my planes like I like my women..............NOT from the 1950's.
 
 
GLMS_NC said:
Guess it all depends on your definition of nice.

You own a Bo? Know what to look for? All of these need serious updates. And I mean serious. And they all lack details to properly evaluate.
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No I don't, I'm not in the market for one. Just saying there are plenty of Nice Bo's for that kind of money. What do you call serious updates?
 
Grum.Man said:
No I don't, I'm not in the market for one. Just saying there are plenty of Nice Bo's for that kind of money. What do you call serious updates?
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You take each of these Bo's and run them through a BPPP clinic and I'll bet there is 10+ of deferred maint that needs done. I am not slamming the sellers as one of these is likely yours, but if they did all the required maint the prices would be much higher. Engine baffle kits to control CHT's and engine cooling, flap and gap seals, rod ends in the landing gear, flap actuators, and that doesn't include things like gear and flap motors. Rod ends in the landing gear are almost 2k just for those. And we haven't dug into the engine, flight control rigging, or equip the avionics for hard IFR flying. A good WAAS panel mount GPS costs what these days? And we have ADS-b as well.

If you have access to a good A/P and you're willing to turn wrenches and get dirty, these can all be brought much more current. Not everyone has the desire, time, or energy to do that. Will you get into a 60 year old plane that has all the original landing gear rod ends installed? Maybe you will - I won't.
 
GLMS_NC said:
You take each of these Bo's and run them through a BPPP clinic and I'll bet there is 10+ of deferred maint that needs done. I am not slamming the sellers as one of these is likely yours, but if they did all the required maint the prices would be much higher. Engine baffle kits to control CHT's and engine cooling, flap and gap seals, rod ends in the landing gear, flap actuators, and that doesn't include things like gear and flap motors. Rod ends in the landing gear are almost 2k just for those. And we haven't dug into the engine, flight control rigging, or equip the avionics for hard IFR flying. A good WAAS panel mount GPS costs what these days? And we have ADS-b as well.

If you have access to a good A/P and you're willing to turn wrenches and get dirty, these can all be brought much more current. Not everyone has the desire, time, or energy to do that. Will you get into a 60 year old plane that has all the original landing gear rod ends installed? Maybe you will - I won't.
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Wow talk about a glass half empty kind of guy. All of those same things could be said for every airplane for sale. If the chts are good during the test flight, no baffles needed. Gap seals are far from required. How do you know those wear items haven't been replaced? Some of the ones I listed at the upper end of his budget had a waas gps already though it certainly isn't needed for hard IFR. Majority of airplanes for sale aren't ads equipped so that applies to just about anything he is looking at. You make a lot of negative assumptions with little info to base that on. And I would get without a doubt get into a 60 year old airplane with original rod ends if they don't have excessive play or cracks.

It's no wonder so many people are chased away from plane ownership from this forum.
 
And since every airplane that doesn't cost 100k is apparently a flying death trap to some, I would much rather fly in a 60 year old bonanza with 2000 hours on it's rod ends than a 10 year old 172 with 12,000 hours on it's.
 
GLMS_NC said:
You take each of these Bo's and run them through a BPPP clinic and I'll bet there is 10+ of deferred maint that needs done. I am not slamming the sellers as one of these is likely yours, but if they did all the required maint the prices would be much higher. Engine baffle kits to control CHT's and engine cooling, flap and gap seals, rod ends in the landing gear, flap actuators, and that doesn't include things like gear and flap motors. Rod ends in the landing gear are almost 2k just for those. And we haven't dug into the engine, flight control rigging, or equip the avionics for hard IFR flying. A good WAAS panel mount GPS costs what these days? And we have ADS-b as well.

If you have access to a good A/P and you're willing to turn wrenches and get dirty, these can all be brought much more current. Not everyone has the desire, time, or energy to do that. Will you get into a 60 year old plane that has all the original landing gear rod ends installed? Maybe you will - I won't.
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A 30 or 40 year old Bo (or anything else) from the 70s or 80s doesn't preclude exactly the same thing.
Probably explains why some people buy a brand new Cirrus. :)
 
eman1200 said:
I'm not sure I agree, grum. u can get urself a nice, well equipped E for $60k. I think u get bonanza scrap metal for $60k, maybe with a bonanza logo thrown in as a bonus.
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Nah... I've been looking and CMS is right... you can a nice V-tail for 60K... I've seen one or two with at least a Garmin 430 and a mid-time engine for that...
 
Grum.Man said:
And since every airplane that doesn't cost 100k is apparently a flying death trap to some, I would much rather fly in a 60 year old bonanza with 2000 hours on it's rod ends than a 10 year old 172 with 12,000 hours on it's.
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You mentioned "darn nice" in post 45 at this price range and I guess it's all about how you define that. I won't argue with you as I have my points and you have yours. I never said age was an issue. How many old airliners fly daily? Loads of them, but it's how they are maintained. In post 54 I clearly stated more info is required to evaluate. But the point remains, at certain price ranges for any aircraft, it raises the question of what has been done to the aircraft. Cessna, Mooney, Cirrus, or Beech - brand doesn't matter. If an owner has spent a load of money on their plane, why would they sell for a significant loss? Like everything else, it's buyer beware.
 
I just want a 201x G36 for a 195x V35 price, is that too much to ask?
 
GLMS_NC said:
You mentioned "darn nice" in post 45 at this price range and I guess it's all about how you define that. I won't argue with you as I have my points and you have yours. I never said age was an issue. How many old airliners fly daily? Loads of them, but it's how they are maintained. In post 54 I clearly stated more info is required to evaluate. But the point remains, at certain price ranges for any aircraft, it raises the question of what has been done to the aircraft. Cessna, Mooney, Cirrus, or Beech - brand doesn't matter. If an owner has spent a load of money on their plane, why would they sell for a significant loss? Like everything else, it's buyer beware.
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Because airplanes aren't an investment. Values are accessed based mostly on times, equipment and condition, not how many things you have had to replace. If they did you would be spending 50k on a decent Champ. There isn't one of those airplanes that I wouldn't consider extremely nice. There were several more that were cheaper that I would consider extremely nice but I know he would want something with a modern GPS.

Personally I would shop for an even older one with an E-185 that can run on car gas if I was in the market for one. As long as it has a VOR with marker beacon and ILS I could fly any approach I need to. Combine an Ipad w/ foreflight and you have all the situational information you need. When that engine came due for an overhaul you could upgrade to an E-225 without an STC as it's approved in the type certificate data sheet, or STC it to an IO-470.
 
Since I have a dog in this hunt, I am throwing it out there. My looking has shown , in general, that Mooneys are usually less expensive for a similarly equipped Bo. Now, does 10k difference mean that much to you? That seems to be the difference. I am only looking at listed prices though.

A 50k Mooney will be a E or F model and it wont be that hard to find one thats what I call workable. Decent engine times, decent radios, not the best but a great starting point. Seems like you have to head into 60k land to get a workable Bo. Maybe its the lower TBO on the Bo that scares people (1500/1700 versus 2000)?


An example-
I am flying down to see a 68 F Mooney that has 2 KX155's, a 2 axis AP, storm scope and mid time engine that was OH'd in this century and looks to have excellent logs and maintenance. Priced under the 50k mark and I believe that might still be high.

On Beechtalk, there is a 57 H35 for sale. 1350 hours on the engine, OH'd in 1998, 430W , AP, storm scope. The 430W is nice, but a higher time engine, closer to that TBO number, and overhauled 19 years ago. Otherwise almost equipped about the same. Listed for 60k that just dropped to 55k.

Seems like, IMO only, that whatever your demands are, that a Mooney is about 10k less than the Bo.
 
I think it all depends on what you are looking for. You have to get into the F model Mooney or later before you can consider the passenger space comparable to a 50's Bonanza. At that point from what I have seen they are priced about the same for similar times and equipment. You are also paying a premium for the extra power and more roomy cabin. If you like a Mooney buy a Mooney, I was just saying there are plenty of nice Bonanzas for 65k and under.
 
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