Completing kits for others.

What's the risk of being held liable in the event the aircraft has an accident with injuries or fatalities after you sell it? Would you as the builder have connection to the accident if litigation were to occur?
 
Ryanb said:
What's the risk of being held liable in the event the aircraft has an accident with injuries or fatalities after you sell it? Would you as the builder have connection to the accident if litigation were to occur?
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As it would be in any other endeavor ?
That would really depend upon how the title was formed.
When you build the entire aircraft, register it in your name and sell it as a used aircraft you are the manufacturer, with all those implications.
Were you simply aiding the owner build certain parts, your name would not be in any of the paper work, the owner would be the builder/manufacturer.
 
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Tom-D said:
As it would be in any other endeavor ?
That would really depend upon how the title was formed.
When you build the entire aircraft, register it in your name and sell it as a used aircraft you are the manufacturer, with all those implications.
Were you simply aiding the owner build certain parts, your name would not be in any of the paper work, the owner would be the builder/manufacturer.
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Not what I mean. Selling a certified aircraft (Cessna, Piper, Beech etc.) as used, to another owner, would not entail any further liability to you as the seller if something were to occur to the new buyer.

If I build an EAB, sell it, and then it's involved in a fatal accident, isn't there still the likelihood that I could be held liable if they pursue litigation? (This is assuming that something faulty on the aircraft occurred, which caused the accident.)
 
Greg Bockelman said:
Who is to say Tom is NOT doing it for his recreation? Especially if he flies it himself for a period of time before he sells it?
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The premise from Tom was that he builds it for you. That is clearly a commercial venture. He can spin it any way he wants, but his defenses consist of Tom playing with words and trying to be clever with his rebuttals. What he has mentioned is clearly against the intent of EAB, regardless of who signs the papers with the FAA.
 
kyleb said:
The premise from Tom was that he builds it for you. That is clearly a commercial venture. He can spin it any way he wants, but his defenses consist of Tom playing with words and trying to be clever with his rebuttals. What he has mentioned is clearly against the intent of EAB, regardless of who signs the papers with the FAA.
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Show me where the owner/builder can't have anyone they like build parts for them.
In fact most AB aircraft have a certified engine and many are painted by professional paint shops
Cozy Girls build most of the parts now for the EZ series aircraft.
SO show me the difference between that and me assembling a fuselage kit, tail kit, or any other portion of any kit?
I know many rag and tube type get welded by professional welders, SO Sho me in the builder rules that I can't do this and be legally paid for doing it.

SHOW ME THE RULE
 
Let's see. A person buys a kit, pays somebody to build the airplane while "supervising" the build, signs a document provided to the FAA that he, the buyer, constructed at least 51% of said airplane and provides a builder's log that shows the guy he hired building the airplane. Am I missing something?

Cheers
 
kyleb said:
The premise from Tom was that he builds it for you. That is clearly a commercial venture. He can spin it any way he wants, but his defenses consist of Tom playing with words and trying to be clever with his rebuttals. What he has mentioned is clearly against the intent of EAB, regardless of who signs the papers with the FAA.
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You and Greg talk to totally different issues.
 
X3 Skier said:
Let's see. A person buys a kit, pays somebody to build the airplane while "supervising" the build, signs a document provided to the FAA that he, the buyer, constructed at least 51% of said airplane and provides a builder's log that shows the guy he hired building the airplane. Am I missing something?

Cheers
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You didn't miss a lick,, and that is perfectly legal.
The person owning the material, and supervising the build is the "BUILDER" and can receive the repairman certificate.
 
Tom-D said:
Show me where the owner/builder can't have anyone they like build parts for them.
In fact most AB aircraft have a certified engine and many are painted by professional paint shops
Cozy Girls build most of the parts now for the EZ series aircraft.
SO show me the difference between that and me assembling a fuselage kit, tail kit, or any other portion of any kit?
I know many rag and tube type get welded by professional welders, SO Sho me in the builder rules that I can't do this and be legally paid for doing it.

SHOW ME THE RULE
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Aah, stump the chump. Your favorite game.

I ain't playing.
 
Who's the builder?
the guy who welded the fuselage together?
The guy who installed the fabric covers?
the guy who wired the aircraft?
the AV shop who installed the radio/nav package?
the paint shop who painted the aircraft?
the guy who installed the engine and made it run?
the guy who selected these shops and purchased all the supplies, filled out all the FAA forms to get the N number, got it inspected by the DAR/FAA and the airworthiness certificate issued?
 
Tom-D said:
IF you can't do it STFU.
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You could be of benefit here by adding insight to a bunch of conversations. Instead, you're a one trick pony. You ask a question and then sit back and argue with everyone. Lather, rinse, repeat.

It must be fun, because you keep doing it.
 
kyleb said:
You could be of benefit here by adding insight to a bunch of conversations. Instead, you're a one trick pony. You ask a question and then sit back and argue with everyone. Lather, rinse, repeat.

It must be fun, because you keep doing it.
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Again nothing to add, just bit-h about it.
 
Tom-D said:
You didn't miss a lick,, and that is perfectly legal.
The person owning the material, and supervising the build is the "BUILDER" and can receive the repairman certificate.
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So the FAA will accept a builder's log that shows the person claiming to be the builder of 51% of the airplane has not even turned a bolt and did no physical effort in construction and then declare that person is the builder and is entitled to the repairman's certificate?

Cheers
 
X3 Skier said:
So the FAA will accept a builder's log that shows the person claiming to be the builder of 51% of the airplane has not even turned a bolt and did no physical effort in construction and then declare that person is the builder and is entitled to the repairman' certificate?

Cheers
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They will do that. in the most resent case was the high school shop instructor that had his class build an aircraft that he only supervised the build.
then who was the builder of the quick build kit demo done at OSH last few years?
 
Tom-D said:
Read the number #1 post, who has answered it?
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If somebody actually answered that question, would you accept it or would you throw some derogatory remarks at them? I'll place my bets on the latter.
 
kyleb said:
You could be of benefit here by adding insight to a bunch of conversations. Instead, you're a one trick pony. You ask a question and then sit back and argue with everyone. Lather, rinse, repeat.

It must be fun, because you keep doing it.
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Doncha love thread drift ? topic gets changed and you blame me.
 
Ryanb said:
If somebody actually answered that question, would you accept it or would you throw some derogatory remarks at them? I'll place my bets on the latter.
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Show me a realistic number.
And show me if there is a profit in doing so.
and forget about it being legal, because it is.
 
Tom-D said:
They will do that. in the most resent case was the high school shop instructor that had his class build an aircraft that he only supervised the build.
then who was the builder of the quick build kit demo done at OSH last few years?
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In either of the cases you cite involve paying the person(s) doing the actual work? Does it make a difference?

Cheers
 
Tom-D said:
Show me a realistic number.
And show me if there is a profit in doing so.
and forget about it being legal, because it is.
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You still didn't answer my question regarding liability of fault if injuries occur in the EAB you build. Chk. Post #57
 
Ryanb said:
You still didn't answer my question regarding liability of fault if injuries occur in the EAB you build. Chk. Post #57
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I tried to in post 51. how do you want to do the paperwork? it is a matter of who the FAA declares the manufacturer.
 
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