EFB compatible GPS

I didn't start using FF, until well after my private. When it came time for instrument, I only used it for basic charts, and plates (No GPS overlay, on the plate). I think it helped me gain a better understanding of the fundamentals. Speaking for the GPS puck though, I have the XGPS150A, and when I use it, it works nicely. Good option!
 
I have yet to figure out how some people think that you can't learn the fundamentals if you use an iPad/FF. At it's root, it's just an EFB. It's far more user friendly than paper, and even using the same basic techniques as with paper, it is far more accurate. It should be smartly integrated into basic PPL training. (As some of the more intelligent CFI's on here have demonstrated.) Start with paper in the classroom. Make sure they know how to use it and plan with now help. Then let them use the iPad in the cockpit, but without the GPS/Location Services, so that it is nothing more than a digital version of the paper sectional. Everything you need to know, in a small, portable, convenient package. Carry a backup, be it paper or another digital device, if you think it's necessary. (And it likely is.) But denying any pilot an opportunity to be as safe, accurate, and situationally aware as they can possibly be is ludicrous.

Nobody taught me how to use FF during my PPL. And the only thing they taught me about my 430 was how to program direct to destination. Both were full of useful tools that eventually made me safer. Not teaching me how to use them put me at additional, unnecessary risk during the first post-PPL 100 hours of flight.

I am currently halfway through my IFR training, and I use 2 iPads, a stratus 2s, my Garmin 430, and 2 iPhones, all in my cockpit. (As well as my GoPro.) The odds of all 4 devices crapping out on me on the same flight are about the same as the odds of the local paper sectional I also carry being sucked out the little pilot-side window.

I applaud all instructors and DPEs that are integrating and embracing such digital technology. It is safer. It is the future.
 
Rykymus said:
I have yet to figure out how some people think that you can't learn the fundamentals if you use an iPad/FF.
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Ok, draw a course line on it and measure angles with a protractor (or by making a parallel line that crosses the center of a VOR rose), and distances with a scale you made with a piece of blank paper and marks from the scale at the edge of the chart, and make a flight log from it that has appropriate landmarks that are clearly visible from the air. Then go fly it with nothing more than a mag compass and a stopwatch and not get lost, at all.

There's fundamentals and then there's fundamentals.

If you need the iPad to tell you what magnetic heading to fly between two points, you missed something, somewhere.

How would you recommend teaching that on an iPad/EFB?
 
Rykymus said:
I have yet to figure out how some people think that you can't learn the fundamentals if you use an iPad/FF.
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I've never had a paper chart experience a battery failure. That being said I've always embraced technology but never let it be a crutch. Even when using new gadgets, I could still whip out a paper chart and do just fine. Learn the fundamentals without the crutch of technology and you wont be a cripple when the technology fails.
 
LDJones said:
Ever seen the written test?
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What does that have to do with whether the chart is printed on paper or displayed on a screen?
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Sorry. Still confused and looking for your mandate. Perhaps we have different definitions of that word? I'm thinking in terms of command, order, or official directive.

Or, are you just thinking in terms of the requirement to use a Number 2 pencil to record your answers on the... Oh that's right, the "written" test is actually done on a computer these days :D
 
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Doggtyred said:
I've never had a paper chart experience a battery failure.
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I've never had an electronic chart experience one either.

OTOH, I have experienced having paper charts, as well as notepads, pend and pencils fall on the floor and disappear under the seat. And we all know the rule about that - anything that drops on the floor during flight will not be seen again until after landing.
 
Rykymus said:
I have yet to figure out how some people think that you can't learn the fundamentals if you use an iPad.
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The same way some folks in the past probably decried the loss of "real" aviation skill when the gyro-driven attitude indicator was invented,
 
I think you can learn the fundamentals on an iPad, or other EFB, as long as it isn't your sole means of navigation. Going through my training though I used the iPad only for charts, and I didn't want my GPS position overlaid on the approach plate. I figured I should know how to figure out where I'm at on the plate, without having the GPS overlay as a crutch.
 
midlifeflyer said:
What does that have to do with whether the chart is printed on paper or displayed on a screen?
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Sorry. Still confused and looking for your mandate. Perhaps we have different definitions of that word? I'm thinking in terms of command, order, or official directive.

Or, are you just thinking in terms of the requirement to use a Number 2 pencil to record your answers on the... Oh that's right, the "written" test is actually done on a computer these days :D
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You're confusing how the answers are recorded versus what is being tested. I have no idea what examiners expect where you are, but ours still like to see classic flight planning with a sectional and paper flight log. I'm sure in time that may change, but until it does I'll continue to train my students accordingly. I'd like to hear if there are examiners that let applicants pop in two fixes and then fly the magenta line for their checkride.
 
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LDJones said:
You're confusing how the answers are recorded versus what is being tested. Our examiners. I have no idea what examiners expect where you are, but ours still like to see classic flight planning with a sectional and paper flight log. I'm sure in time that may change, but until it does I'll continue to train my students accordingly. I'd like to hear if there are examiners that let applicants pop in two fixes and then fly the magenta line for their checkride.
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Now the PPL ACS states,

I. Preflight Preparation

Task

Task D. Cross-Country Flight Planning

PA.I.D.S9

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9. Apply pertinent information from Chart Supplements U.S.; NOTAMs relative to airport, runway and taxiway closures; and other flight publications.

PA.I.D.S10

10. On the day of the practical test, the final flight plan shall be to the first fuel stop, based on the maximum allowable passengers, baggage, and/or cargo loads using real-time weather and appropriate and current aeronautical charts.


So no where does it say paper or EFB charts, only current aeronautical. I am curious if a DPE wanted to fail or discontinue a check ride for a student using an EFB. Can that student argue the fact that it is not specified. How long it would take the FAA to make an official mandate about the use of charts or EFB during a check ride. Fact is the EFB isn't the way of the future, it is the way of right now. I still have my students do the planning the traditional way. But as soon as they get their license, that way is out the window. I have to admit, once my training was done, I never used the whole flight planning method to go anywhere. And that's going back 20 years before EFB.
 
TommyG said:
So no where does it say paper or EFB charts, only current aeronautical. I am curious if a DPE wanted to fail or discontinue a check ride for a student using an EFB. Can that student argue the fact that it is not specified. How long it would take the FAA to make an official mandate about the use of charts or EFB during a check ride. Fact is the EFB isn't the way of the future, it is the way of right now. I still have my students do the planning the traditional way. But as soon as they get their license, that way is out the window. I have to admit, once my training was done, I never used the whole flight planning method to go anywhere. And that's going back 20 years before EFB.
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No disagreement on the reality of how people fly today. Heck, it's the way I fly. Which is why I teach EFB use and let my students fly a second XC with their EFB, after they've demonstrated an understanding of the manual way. I'll let you know if I get a student willing to challenge the examiner's current methodology.
 
LDJones said:
You're confusing how the answers are recorded versus what is being tested. I have no idea what examiners expect where you are, but ours still like to see classic flight planning with a sectional and paper flight log. I'm sure in time that may change, but until it does I'll continue to train my students accordingly. I'd like to hear if there are examiners that let applicants pop in two fixes and then fly the magenta line for their checkride.
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Probably not. And they should not. Just as an FYI, I used electronics to create my flight plan for my instrument checkride. The DPE queried me to make sure I knew what the electronics was doing, making sure I knew how to plan a flight. That's absolutely fair game, and what I would expect any DPE to do on any checkride.

That was in 1992.
 
LDJones said:
No disagreement on the reality of how people fly today. Heck, it's the way I fly. Which is why I teach EFB use and let my students fly a second XC with their EFB, after they've demonstrated an understanding of the manual way. I'll let you know if I get a student willing to challenge the examiner's current methodology.
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Not even one item there I disagree with,
 
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