Let's double pattern altitude.

Challenged

Challenged

Pattern Altitude
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Challenged
I love to play devil's advocate sometimes. Here's one for you: Would doubling pattern altitude help prevent stall/spin accidents?
 
How would it prevent stalls and spins? You still have to come down to land and the airspeeds wouldn't change. You're more likely to get pattern conflicts if people are spread out all over the place too. I can't envision any benefit.
 
Well TPA is a recommendation anyways, you want to fly 2k AGL because you're worried about spins/stalls , go for it.
 
I think you'd just be increasing the speed at impact for those unfortunate souls that get in a stall/spin.
 
I thought stall/spin typically occurred in the base to final turn? If you're doing that at 1800 feet instead of 800, would that not give you more time to react and recover? What's a safe altitude to recover from a stall/spin?
 
So let's make pattern altitude 3,000 agl. Is that enough to recover?
 
But you still have to land on the ground so at some point you have to come down. You'd basically be doing a straight in at that point.
 
DrewG said:
I imagine the only effect would be ridiculously steep approaches.
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jordane93 said:
That or ridiculously wide/long patterns.
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Yes. Geometry says that if you keep the same glide path angle on the approach, then you have to make the pattern wider and longer, to accommodate the higher pattern altitude. Otherwise you have to make the approach steeper.

A wider pattern might help with stall-spin accidents, to make it less likely that you overshoot the base-to-final turn. But a steep approach could not help.
 
Challenged said:
Would that be bad?
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It would be bad if you're flying skills were so bad that you couldn't fly a regular pattern and needed to do a straight-in just to stay safe. A traffic pattern accommodates multiple airplanes safely and efficiently but it does require that you actually be able to fly the plane. The better solution is to maintain proficiency or get more instruction rather than change what works for everybody else.
 
Back in my DZ days I'd hit down wind at like 2-3k AGL near VNE, decel turn down wind to final, cross the fence at vref ;)
 
If you lack the skill to avoid spinning out of the base-final turn, you probably lack the skill to recover from it, as well.

Spinning in from 800 or 1800, you'll hit about as hard, either way, in most GA airplanes. . .
 
Fearless Tower said:
That is probably true, although in fairness to the heavy guys, they are very different skill sets.
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It's amazing how many pilots consider them so different that they don't overlap at all...

Lined up on final, two white & two red on the PAPI? Better go heads-down and program a visual into the FMS! o_O
 
Turning final at 1800 feet vs 600..???
Think how big the traffic pattern would be.
 
The altitude and lateral size would certainly increase the risk of a collision hazard with aircraft transiting the area, as well as make it more difficult to see aircraft already in the pattern. It would also be an inefficient use of time and fuel. Not to mention the difficulty of flying such a pattern in marginal VFR weather conditions.

SkyDog58 said:
Just asking a ridiculous question does not equate to playing devil's advocate.
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Right, in order to play devil's advocate, you must defend one side of a debate. There's no real debate and OP didn't really put up much of a defense.
 
Probably not. All the other issues to deal with might get some folk more likely to get behind the plane and do something bad that might lead up to a stall/spin. Doubling the advertised TPA is a pretty extreme scenario but it does beg to start a discussion about slipping and can a slipping airplane spin.
 
If you want to eliminate the base/final stall/spin accident, eliminate the base/final turn. Straight in all the time, every time. Problem solved. Where do I pick up my money?
 
Mike Smith said:
If you want to eliminate the base/final stall/spin accident, eliminate the base/final turn. Straight in all the time, every time. Problem solved. Where do I pick up my money?
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Eliminate all turns - Only fly straight. Just hope your destination is runway heading, or that you can airport hop until you find a runway pointing in the right direction.
 
Thanks for the input so far...you guys are fun to poke sticks at. :)
 
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