"if you like your doctor we don't give a ****."

[txflyer]

Those aren't all the facts.

Lots of stuff drives pricing on insurance besides the deductible.

Like any other item, consumers need to shop around for the best value proposition for them.

Those are the facts. I can't prove it other than showing the processed checks and I'm not doing that online.

Neither my wife nor I had any medical issues, or anything changed other than these plans. I'm 57 right now and she's 58.

Shopping? There's this thing called the internet that believe me I shopped through several sites that act as spiders and they show you the cheapest health plans available.

 

[texasag93]

........

No, but I expect to get insurance when the house is rebuilt. I expect to get insurance when I get a replacement car.

But when I get a new heart valve, no coverage after that if you switch employers or retire early? Pre-ACA, nogmt so much.Wrong. Kassebaum Kennedy let you take it from job to job and insurance to insurance. Federal law since 1996. Texas (I assume you do not live here, I could be wrong, allows for an individual risk pool coverage since 1997/8 that you can get into that was covered by the insurance companies.

Spare us the medical welfare BSIt is welfare, I pay for other people's coverage through the government, that makes it welfare. You make not like the word, but that is WELFARE.

I sincerely hope that some of you and the rest of the "**** you, you're on your own crowd" find yourselves in same position some day. Perhaps it will give you a little better perspective......

There were many other choices other than to blow up the best healthcare system in the world.


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[ggroves]

........

The Portability Act covered you recent group plan to new group plan. If you wanted to retire early or self employ, no go. No one was going to sell you a policy that was affordable or without restrictions.

Most state risk pools required individuals to be without insurance for a period of time before it was available. Virginia required you to be uninsured for 6 months. No thanks.

Pay for the uninsured with higher costs, or pay to provide more with coverage. Either way, we pay.




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[FastEddieB]

Those are the facts. I can't prove it other than showing the processed checks and I'm not doing that online.

One way around this frustration is to put Jose Cuervo on "Ignore".

I did so when he insisted on repeatedly calling my friends liars. That, in my book, is unacceptable.

And I don't feel like I'm missing a thing.

Just a thought.

 

[txflyer]

One way around this frustration is to put Jose Cuervo on "Ignore".

I did so when he insisted on repeatedly calling my friends liars. That, in my book, is unacceptable.

And I don't feel like I'm missing a thing.

Just a thought.

Wise advice.

I enjoy point/counter point, but some people either can't learn or won't learn. The former is a disability, the latter just arrogant pride.

No one likes to have their bubble popped.

 

[weilke]

Pay for the uninsured with higher costs, or pay to provide more with coverage. Either way, we pay.

By getting the uninsured insured, we are paying more, not less. Consumers who have health insurance will make more use of health services than the uninsured. Particularly the expansion of Medicaid has put a higher burden on hospitals and hospital clinics. They already lose money on Medicaid patients, so having more medical assistance patients doesn't make up the small decrease in bad accounts from the self-pay sector.

 

[weilke]

Wise advice.

I enjoy point/counter point, but some people either can't learn or won't learn. The former is a disability, the latter just arrogant pride.

No one likes to have their bubble popped.

It's not arrogance, just passive aggressive troll technique.

 

[JoseCuervo]

It's not arrogance, just passive aggressive troll technique.

I have never seen a forum like POA, where people rush to declare others, with whom they disagree, to be a troll. An interesting dynamic for trying to shut down debate.


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[JoseCuervo]

One way around this frustration is to put Jose Cuervo on "Ignore".



I did so when he insisted on repeatedly calling my friends liars. That, in my book, is unacceptable.



And I don't feel like I'm missing a thing.



Just a thought.

One should never spend time or energy being exposed to opinions different than your own.

Might accidentally get hurt opening your mind.


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[JoseCuervo]

The Portability Act covered you recent group plan to new group plan. If you wanted to retire early or self employ, no go. No one was going to sell you a policy that was affordable or without restrictions.

Most state risk pools required individuals to be without insurance for a period of time before it was available. Virginia required you to be uninsured for 6 months. No thanks.

Pay for the uninsured with higher costs, or pay to provide more with coverage. Either way, we pay.




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Exactly. We were going to pay for it one where the other


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[JoseCuervo]

Those are the facts. I can't prove it other than showing the processed checks and I'm not doing that online.



Neither my wife nor I had any medical issues, or anything changed other than these plans. I'm 57 right now and she's 58.



Shopping? There's this thing called the internet that believe me I shopped through several sites that act as spiders and they show you the cheapest health plans available.

Looks like you were under 55 years old, and now over 55 years old.

And you still aren't sharing all the facts.

Where do you think all this extra money is going that you pay each month?



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[weilke]

I have never seen a forum like POA, where people rush to declare others, with whom they disagree, to be a troll. An interesting dynamic for trying to shut down debate.

Oh, there is no rush. This is an opinion formed over a long time. I just don't think you are actually interested in discussion, just in antagonizing people. The less you know about an area of discussion, the more of your posts are ad hominem attacks.

 

[txflyer]

Looks like you were under 55 years old, and now over 55 years old.

And you still aren't sharing all the facts.

Where do you think all this extra money is going that you pay each month?



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So you're saying when a healthy person turns 55, their health insurance normally goes up 110%.

You're funny. You truly are. Sad, but funny.

 

[JoseCuervo]

So you're saying when a healthy person turns 55, their health insurance normally goes up 110%.



You're funny. You truly are. Sad, but funny.

That is not what I said, but, if it helps you to make your argument, then pleas fabricate whatever you need.

Where do you think these premiums are going?

 

[txflyer]

That is not what I said, but, if it helps you to make your argument, then pleas fabricate whatever you need.

Where do you think these premiums are going?

It is what you inferred, and I can fabricate as much as you can.

Our premiums went up over 100% and are going to pay for your health care obviously.

 

[texasag93]

..........

The Portability Act covered you recent group plan to new group plan. If you wanted to retire early or self employ, no go. No one was going to sell you a policy that was affordable or without restrictions.

I have had individual coverage for most of my life.I get a letter when I leave one insurer for another. That removes the waiting period for coverage. You cannot have a gap in coverage, but as long as the coverage backs up to each other, the letter(s) cover me.

In Texas, whom we all know is a vast wasteland of people who do not care to take care of other people,if you were denied individual coverage, you can apply to the pool. Most state risk pools required individuals to be without insurance for a period of time before it was available. Virginia required you to be uninsured for 6 months. No thanks.

Pay for the uninsured with higher costs, or pay to provide more with coverage. Either way, we pay.

Since my wife is a surgeon, I see the 'higher cost' that people are paying now. Many went from a $1000- $2500 deductible to $5000- $15000 deductible. Many cannot afford surgery or delay it due to the cost being so high.

My family deductible went from $5400 to $12,700 and my premium went from $430 to $840.

'Either way, we pay' is BS. When someone has coverage with a high deductible cannot pay it, they still go to the ED and do not pay the hospital/surgeon/ED doctors since it goes to their deductible. I see it first hand. We do not even try to collect the bad debt, we know they cannot pay.




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[Chip Sylverne]

So you're saying when a healthy person turns 55, their health insurance normally goes up 110%.

You're funny. You truly are. Sad, but funny.

That actually the sad truth. The percentage may vary, but underwriters know the older you get, the more likely you are to have a claim. At 55, ours went up a good 60%, as I said, prior to enactment of the ACA.

So yes, you get older, you pay more, even if you have no claims.

That's the way it is.

 

[Matthew]

That actually the sad truth. The percentage may vary, but underwriters know the older you get, the more likely you are to have a claim.

So yas, you get older, you pay more, even if you have no claims.

That's the way it is.

Unless you have an O'Care policy. That's when the younger generation saw their premiums go way up in order to cover the expenses of the older population.

 

[Chip Sylverne]

Unless you have an O'Care policy. That's when the younger generation saw their premiums go way up in order to cover the expenses of the older population.

I have no clue what a 25 year old would pay for the coverage I have, but my guess would be a fairly small percentage. And since I've never had a claim, and live a fairly healthy lifestyle, I am just as likely to be subsidizing him, to say nothing of the other taxes I pay.

But that's another discussion.

 

[SkyDog58]

One way around this frustration is to put Jose Cuervo on "Ignore".

I did so when he insisted on repeatedly calling my friends liars. That, in my book, is unacceptable.

And I don't feel like I'm missing a thing.

Just a thought.

I just put him and a couple of others on ignore last week. People who think they are an expert on everything and argue about everything are not people I want to hear from.

The ignore function is sort of the Preparation H of POA.

 

[roncachamp]

In fairness, ONLY Dems voted for this atrocity. Why they're not held accountable for it is a testament to the growing percentage of stupid people in our country.

It's true that only DEMS voted for this atrocity, but our sitting RINOs and the DEMS could have repealed it.

 

[Sundancer]

You mean when the life expectancy in the US was 46 years for a male?

Yeah, the good old days..... But, I don't remember the first half of the 20th century. And, I would guess any memory you have of the first half of the 20th century is selective, at best.

I heard "real" life expectancy hasn't changed that much in a century or two - once the infant mortality is backed out. Knocking out a lot of the childhood disease killers pushed the average way up. Nothing but a vague memory to support this - just remembering hearing that if you made it past five years old back then, you'd probably live almost as long as you would now. Again, can't recall what "almost"' was either. . .

 

[nddons]

I heard "real" life expectancy hasn't changed that much in a century or two - once the infant mortality is backed out. Knocking out a lot of the childhood disease killers pushed the average way up. Nothing but a vague memory to support this - just remembering hearing that if you made it past five years old back then, you'd probably live almost as long as you would now. Again, can't recall what "almost"' was either. . .

When you look at how old many of the Founding Fathers were when they died, I think you make a very good point.

 

[JoseCuervo]

When you look at how old many of the Founding Fathers were when they died, I think you make a very good point.

Yeah, as rich, white, male, landowners were representative of the entire population.


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[roncachamp]

Most of those plans should have never been approved by the state regulators in the first place. The actuarial guesses were wildly optimistic and the startup funding was insufficient.

There should be no state regulators.

 

[weilke]

There should be no state regulators.

Agreed. Health insurance should be regulated* by the feds and available across state lines.



* regulated in the sense that insurance companies have to show assets and reinsurance to cover their book. Not regulated in terms of what to cover.

 

[Sleepingsquirrel]

Good, because I'm sick of subsidizing people who don't buy insurance.

Even if they buy insurance we are still subsidizing them.

 

[ggroves]

Even if they buy insurance we are still subsidizing them.

That's insurance, by definition. You are sharing in a risk pool.


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[Sleepingsquirrel]

That's insurance, by definition. You are sharing in a risk pool.
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Yes we all swim in the same pool, some of us in trunks, some in two piece bikinis, some in one piece swimming suits. Some are swimming naked and asking the rest of us to close our eyes and pay their admission. We all enjoy the safety of the life guard on duty but some are doing it at the expense of others and naked. Then they want our sunblock to keep their keisters from sunburn

 

[nddons]

That's insurance, by definition. You are sharing in a risk pool.


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Since when are taxpayers part of the "risk pool?"

 

[Sleepingsquirrel]

Since when are taxpayers part of the "risk pool?"

Good question! Since it became law that everyone is required to pay the "tax" for healthcare coverage. Some could not pay for it before, they still can't and the other taxpayers are paying subsidies in taxes as well as higher premiums with reduced coverage.

 

[Sundancer]

Yeah, as rich, white, male, landowners were representative of the entire population.


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They weren't all rich; and with the state of the art in medicine then, money didn't much matter, once you did get sick. Same-same for nutrition. Ordinary people's diet may have been healthier than the wealthy's

I also think they did a good job of laying the ground work for a pretty decent country.

You might do some reading on indentured servitude, which was pretty damn close to slavery; true, after 20 years you might be free - about one out of twenty of those mostly white folks lived long enough to become so.

Of the people on this list whose ancestors were here at the founding, most will not/not trace thier family tree to "rich white landowners", so you might consider backing off the racist rhetoric just s bit. . .

 

[JoseCuervo]

They weren't all rich; and with the state of the art in medicine then, money didn't much matter, once you did get sick. Same-same for nutrition. Ordinary people's diet may have been healthier than the wealthy's



I also think they did a good job of laying the ground work for a pretty decent country.



You might do some reading on indentured servitude, which was pretty damn close to slavery; true, after 20 years you might be free - about one out of twenty of those mostly white folks lived long enough to become so.



Of the people on this list whose ancestors were here at the founding, most will not/not trace thier family tree to "rich white landowners", so you might consider backing off the racist rhetoric just s bit. . .

Oh please.

You don't think the "founding fathers" we're rich, white, landowners?

You might be the one that needs to spend some time reading biographies.

Quick quiz for you:

Of the signers of the Declaration of Independence, how many were slave owners vs how many were slaves?

 

[ggroves]

Since when are taxpayers part of the "risk pool?"

Socialism. BOO!!

Did I scare you....?


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[nddons]

Socialism. BOO!!

Did I scare you....?


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No, but for someone who calls such product "insurance" when it requires taxpayer support for its very existence doesn't seem to understand what "insurance" is. But you and Bernie have the socialism part down pat.

 

[ggroves]

No, but for someone who calls such product "insurance" when it requires taxpayer support for its very existence doesn't seem to understand what "insurance" is. But you and Bernie have the socialism part down pat.

I'll stop calling it insurance, and call it "coverage" for semantics sake. Better? Regardless, keep writing checks. I will too, except I won't ***** about it nearly as much as you do.....


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[Sundancer]

Oh please.

You don't think the "founding fathers" we're rich, white, landowners?

You might be the one that needs to spend some time reading biographies.

Quick quiz for you:

Of the signers of the Declaration of Independence, how many were slave owners vs how many were slaves?

Try reading with care. I said they weren't all rich. And they weren't. And the ones that were, put thier lives, fortunes and sacred honor on the line. If they had more than most, they also had more to lose. Whether you like or acknowledge it, they laid the foundation for a society, culture, and country that may be amoung the best things to happen in human history. Not perfect, never claimed to be, but one willing to strive for improvement, fairness, human dignity.

Don't care how many owned slaves, as it isn't relevant to your comments. Just like it isn't relevant that slavery, legal or de facto, was practiced in Mexico, in native american societies, and by just about everyone else in the world. The diffrence being, once we became a country, we ended it faster than most.

Take your own quiz, and add a question - how many white males died ending slavery in the civil war?

Guess what? If you don't like your situation, it ain't all the white man's fault; you can make it big here, with talent, work, and luck. Racism exist, sure. So does using it as an excuse.

 

[JoseCuervo]

Don't care how many owned slaves, as it isn't relevant to your comments. Just like it isn't relevant that slavery, legal or de facto, was practiced in Mexico, in native american societies, and by just about everyone else in the world. The diffrence being, once we became a country, we ended it faster than most.



Take your own quiz, and add a question - how many white males died ending slavery in the civil war?



Guess what? If you don't like your situation, it ain't all the white man's fault; you can make it big here, with talent, work, and luck. Racism exist, sure. So does using it as an excuse.

Yeah, quite evident you choose not to understand history.

You don't measure the life expectancy by only using rich, white, landowners as the data set.

Interesting that you choose to ignore the rest.


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[Sundancer]

Yeah, quite evident you choose not to understand history.

You don't measure the life expectancy by only using rich, white, landowners as the data set.

Interesting that you choose to ignore the rest.


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You don't stack ball bearings on bowling balls either. . .NWMT

 

[Sundancer]

When you look at how old many of the Founding Fathers were when they died, I think you make a very good point.

You got me thinking - Googled around a bit, and found this - expectancy IF you made it to 21. A little beyond childhood, for sure. Guess it smooths the data a bit for violent death, and those weakened by disease in childhood that held on a while:

1200–1300: age 64
1300–1400: age 45 (bubonic plague)
1400–1500: age 69
1500–1550: age 71

Depending on source, we're somewhere in the upper 70's now, for white and Hispanic Americans. 3 or 4 years lower for black Americans, with he gap closing.

Anyway, I guess, depending on your point of view, it's improved a lot since 1550. But the really big change is in how many more humans make it out of childhood (and early adulthood) alive.