Icon A5 Splashes Down

Archammer said:
Hmm, I disagree almost completely. You bet your ass it looks fun, and more importantly safe. Plus it was actually built with materials and techniques that aren't older than my grandparents.

So let's just clear some misinformation up here:
200k for an aircraft that will land on land or water, has a parachute, some of the best anti-stall characteristics ever created, doesn't cost you fifty ****ing dollars worth of fuel every hour, that has current avionics, fly's over 100kts and you can put on a trailer keep at home? Really?

You have fun paying for that crusty T-hangar with all the birds shatting and making nests on your airplane every month, looking at those analog gauges that you love paying to repair and flying that airplane that was built while Nixon was still in office. I'll take the Icon.

(Please don't take personally, I'm using your statement - which is a common one - to prove a point. It is not directed at you. I'm trying to get people to look at these things a little differently.)
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Well...you are off base on a few things.

1) The Icon does *not* cruise over 100kt. It cruises at 85kt, top speed is 95kt. In other words, very slow for a modern composite LSA. In fact, the slowest modern composite 100hp LSA I've ever heard of. In comparison, my CTSW cruises easily at 115-120kt.

http://www.aopa.org/News-and-Video/All-News/2015/June/18/Icon-A5-is-for-real

2) What does the airplane type have to do with whether you are in a crusty old T-hanger full of bird droppings? Unless you are saying that "If you can afford an Icon you can afford a nicer hangar". That doesn't sound like a plus for the Icon, it sounds like a plus for having more money. :dunno:

3) Sure you can stick it on a trailer. But I for one don't want to subject a $250k airplane to rock chips and traffic accidents every time I want to fly. But I guess that goes back to "just have enough money that it doesn't bother you to trash it"...

4) As for "looking at those analog gauges that you love paying to repair"...have you actually looked at the Icon cockpit? All of the flight instruments are analog:

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I'm not sure that others are the ones that need to look at these things a little differently.
 
Gsxrpilot said:
I ran into an old friend of mine at a trade show recently. He is just a hard working, but very successful businessman. His current and long time hobby has been racing a Ferrari. He's got a deposit down on an Icon and doesn't even have a Private Certificate yet.
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That is their target audience. Non-pilots who have no idea what features are desirable or what is a fair price for an LSA with a particular feature set. The company has as much as said so.
 
FastEddieB said:
How about linking to a GPS, with an algorithm to determine whether the plane is over water or over land? Alarm goes off if the gear is set incorrectly.

Not going to be perfect, but could still help a lot.
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Yeah, that could work too! Probably easier to develop as well.
 
bullwinkle said:
2572786418_6a9b008eb2_z.jpg


I'm not sure that others are the ones that need to look at these things a little differently.
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Does the Icon even have a mag compass? I wonder if they will ever offer a "pilot's" panel option with more traditional instrumentation?
 
bullwinkle said:
That is their target audience. Non-pilots who have no idea what features are desirable or what is a fair price for an LSA with a particular feature set. The company has as much as said so.
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Have you ever flown an amphib? That is a HUGE feature that really changes the entire game if you live near water.

I'll tell you this, as a working pilot, if I bought new, which I don't, the icon would be on the very top of my list for a personal commuter/fun aircraft, especially for areas like the PNW, NE, AK, HI.
 
Okay so it's a quarter million bucks but look at their latest promo video (July 15, 2015) this airplane is gonna get you chicks!
 
Silvaire said:
Okay so it's a quarter million bucks but look at their latest promo video (July 15, 2015) this airplane is gonna get you chicks!
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I thought the quarter million was only for the founders editions? The current price on the site is $190k.
 
OMG, that panel is the final result of all their design team work? Looks like a 90s Buick in there. Never seen so much injection molded plastic before in a plane. I sure wouldn't expose that to much sun, or it's going to look rough in a few years. Whew.
 
deonb said:
I thought the quarter million was only for the founders editions? The current price on the site is $190k.
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No guarantee the budget model is gonna get you chicks like those.
 
James331 said:
Have you ever flown an amphib? That is a HUGE feature that really changes the entire game if you live near water.

I'll tell you this, as a working pilot, if I bought new, which I don't, the icon would be on the very top of my list for a personal commuter/fun aircraft, especially for areas like the PNW, NE, AK, HI.
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I have no doubt that amphibs are fun, and useful in certain areas. But a Sea Rey is basically the same airplane without the wiz-bang factor, and you can buy a built one for about 20-25% of an Icon A5.

Not knocking the concept, knocking the execution. Utility and fun per dollar is not a bargain.
 
Silvaire said:
Okay so it's a quarter million bucks but look at their latest promo video (July 15, 2015) this airplane is gonna get you chicks!
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A Ferrari 458 will get you more chicks for the same money. :D

Most chicks don't know enough about airplanes to be impressed by one over another. But they know a pretty car when they see one.
 
While the plane is certainly intriguing, i'll take a Quicksilver Sport 2S on amphibious floats for about 10% of the cost of the Icon.
 
bullwinkle said:
A Ferrari 458 will get you more chicks for the same money. :D

Most chicks don't know enough about airplanes to be impressed by one over another. But they know a pretty car when they see one.
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If you're just after mindless chicks, get a Acura NSX with a fancy paint job, they'll think it's a lambo or other exotic, it'll cost less all around. Or better yet spend a hundred or so at the bar, have a nice personality and be well dressed, same outcome, even less money.

For the demographic you're going after, well it's like climbing baby seals, really very little skill required.
 
So let me get this strait,
For $250k I can buy:
An icon a5

Or

A G1 SR22, a Porsche Cayenne, and a jet ski and have $50k for Avgas.

Which will get me more chicks?
Which will get me more utility?



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bullwinkle said:
I have no doubt that amphibs are fun, and useful in certain areas. But a Sea Rey is basically the same airplane without the wiz-bang factor, and you can buy a built one for about 20-25% of an Icon A5.

Not knocking the concept, knocking the execution. Utility and fun per dollar is not a bargain.
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The folks looking to spend that money are likley not going to buy a plane "built in some guys garage". I got no issue with experimental, just the demo that entertains buying new rarely are seen entertain home builds. :dunno:
 
docmirror said:
Never seen so much injection molded plastic before in a plane.
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That's because airplanes are typically full of vacuum formed plastic that holds up much worse in the sun.

I sure wouldn't expose that to much sun, or it's going to look rough in a few years. Whew.
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If they use the same materials and finishes they use on Jet Skis, it will last a long, long time.
 
SkyDog58 said:
The Master Caution light does not tell you exactly what the problem is. It only tells you that you have a problem and then you must look for other caution lights or indications to figure out what the exact problem is. Same for the Master Warning. They both have accompanying specific indications but are not themselves specific.
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I know what the master caution light does. I guess I mis-worded my post.
 
Curious.

Their maximum takeoff weight is 1510 lbs, which is above usual LSA requirements.

I saw that they got an FAA exemption before they got the weight down that low, that would have allowed them to ship with an original 1680 lbs takeoff weight.

Since they have the exemption anyway already, why not raise the payload limit up from 310lbs to something like 400lbs? That would make a HUGE difference in utility.


Same thing goes for the MVP.Aero.

Both these planes are on the verge of being spectacular - but just needs that 100lbs extra payload capability.
 
Silvaire said:
Like it or not you should still be able to make fun of it. This is still one of my favorites although it was kind of hard to find. Even if you Google "I want an Icon A5 cartoon" all you get are Icon sales promotions.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0XcGY39xzhk&sns=em
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Tmpendergrass said:
So let me get this strait,
For $250k I can buy:
An icon a5

Or

A G1 SR22, a Porsche Cayenne, and a jet ski and have $50k for Avgas.

Which will get me more chicks?
Which will get me more utility?



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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You'll still need a car and a boat. Cayenne is trash and jet skis don't fit many girly types. But you will have an SR22 so that's kewl.
 
Tmpendergrass said:
So let me get this strait,
For $250k I can buy:
An icon a5

Or

A G1 SR22, a Porsche Cayenne, and a jet ski and have $50k for Avgas.

Which will get me more chicks?
Which will get me more utility?



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Click to expand...

Apples to apples, let's talk a NEW cirrus,
also why drive a Cayenne,it's a Porsche with panties, I think you ment to say a 911 and a real stand up jetski :D
 
James331 said:
Apples to apples, let's talk a NEW cirrus,

also why drive a Cayenne,it's a Porsche with panties, I think you ment to say a 911 and a real stand up jetski :D
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Substitute in your vehicle and aircraft of choice :).

Bottom line is you can get a heck of a plane, a heck of a car, and some toys for less than the icon.

I just don't get it.


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Tmpendergrass said:
Substitute in your vehicle and aircraft of choice :).

Bottom line is you can get a heck of a plane, a heck of a car, and some toys for less than the icon.

I just don't get it.


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Well wait till there are 5+ yr old ones hitting the market.
 
Tmpendergrass said:
Substitute in your vehicle and aircraft of choice :).

Bottom line is you can get a heck of a plane, a heck of a car, and some toys for less than the icon.

I just don't get it.


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And you never will until you become very wealthy. Then you will get it. Regular middle class people will not be buying this plane for another 15-20 years.
 
Dav8or said:
Man the hate for the A5 runs deep with you!! Why the hell would you say that??!:dunno:
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It's not directed at the Icon per-se. But the guy is on a remote, quiet, peaceful lake campground with a little toy that goes "GGGGGGGGEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHAAAAAAAAAAAAEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE" around all those campers.

So, I would say that no matter the make, model, or type.

Time and place.;)
 
docmirror said:
It's not directed at the Icon per-se. But the guy is on a remote, quiet, peaceful lake campground with a little toy that goes "GGGGGGGGEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHAAAAAAAAAAAAEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE" around all those campers.

So, I would say that no matter the make, model, or type.

Time and place.;)
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Wow. For a whole 2 minutes and 16 seconds you couldn't bear it?!! Seriously what the hell do you think you sound like when you buzz over head in your full sized airplane??!! Just like swallows and doves??!! How many people on the ground in the past have said- "If I only had a Stinger Missile, I know I could take that **** out!" Time and place... indeed. Man. What a lot of arrogance. I would say you are ready to pull up all your stakes, go off the grid and sit on your porch in New Mexico with whatever man cannon you can think of in your hand at the ready.

:(
 
Dav8or said:
Wow. For a whole 2 minutes and 16 seconds you couldn't bear it?!! Seriously what the hell do you think you sound like when you buzz over head in your full sized airplane??!! Just like swallows and doves??!! How many people on the ground in the past have said- "If I only had a Stinger Missile, I know I could take that **** out!" Time and place... indeed. Man. What a lot of arrogance. I would say you are ready to pull up all your stakes, go off the grid and sit on your porch in New Mexico with whatever man cannon you can think of in your hand at the ready.

:(
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Corn flakes saturated with some camel urine again? Oh well. You got it off your chest. Now you feel better. Glad I was there to provide a target. :thumbsup:
 
BTW the free flight simulator from Microsoft, MS Flight, has the Icon A5 as the default aircraft. It's pretty fun.
 
Dav8or said:
And you never will until you become very wealthy. Then you will get it. Regular middle class people will not be buying this plane for another 15-20 years.
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I guess the rest of us will have to buy the big boy Lake Buc' version instead. :lol:
 
FastEddieB said:
That's cool.

The water landings seemed to get a bit oscillatory in nature, kinda like porpoising.

Was that due to landing fast and flat, and is it something that A5 pilots will have to guard against?
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Probably not, I doubt that the rc model flies much like the real thing.
 
SkyDog58 said:
Probably not, I doubt that the rc model flies much like the real thing.
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Seems like the friction from the hull hitting the water is causing a nose down moment, that the pilot corrects for with up elevator, getting into a pilot induced oscillation.

Is this a "thing" with similar amphibs like the Lake?
 
Remember gravity doesn't scale so the models will tend to behave differently than full scale

That thing is flying a scale speed of like mach 1

Er.... I don't know what I'm talking about
 
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Dav8or said:
Yep, but could you have afforded it when it was new?? Would you have said- "That's ridiculous! For that much money I could getta...!"
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Nope, can't afford the A5, or just about any other aircraft short of an Ultralight for the new price. That's the reason why GA will eventually become extremely restricted. Icon will sell some of the A5's, but it will only be to a handful of wealthy individuals or perhaps a flight school (doubtful). Otherwise, most will be lucky to see one, much less fly it. Maybe I'll have to start playing the lottery for the chance that I can "understand" what being absurdly wealthy is like, :lol:.
 
The idea more money in the bank makes one desensitized to the concept of cost scaling is fallacious. People become rich precisely because they are able to retain cost scaling sensitivity.I believe those who cannot exhibit that kind of temperance in the presence of increased money we call, oil workers. :D
 
SoonerAviator said:
Nope, can't afford the A5, or just about any other aircraft short of an Ultralight for the new price. That's the reason why GA will eventually become extremely restricted. Icon will sell some of the A5's, but it will only be to a handful of wealthy individuals or perhaps a flight school (doubtful). Otherwise, most will be lucky to see one, much less fly it. Maybe I'll have to start playing the lottery for the chance that I can "understand" what being absurdly wealthy is like, :lol:.
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Well using the Lake Amphibians built in the good ol' days of GA as an example since those are thought to be sensible choices now, I ask these questions-
  • How many Lakes were built total and over how many years?
  • What was their brand new price relative to middle class income of the period?
  • Would you as a buyer back then, have bought one?
  • Would you have just bought on old Super Cub on floats instead?
  • How is that Lake company doing now?
The point again is that money, value, wealth are all relative. To the vast majority of inhabitants of this planet you are already absurdly wealthy and the fact that you fly small private planes for fun already says you are blowing money in an unwise manor. You already understand what being absurdly wealthy is like, you just need to imagine scaling up understand buying a brand new A5.
 
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